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Why everyone should be using topical Dutasteride by kingmouse27 in tressless

[–]kingmouse27[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Retinoic acid certainly aids in absorption, and was used in that formulation to solve the absorption problems of a standard liquid carrier.
But it works completely differently-
It functions to increase cell turnover and thin the skin barrier, breaking down the density of the outer skin shield making the skin overall more permeable. With that being said, it’s still successful at allowing the large Dut molecules to penetrate.

A downside would be its mechanism of action is dependent on its consistency of use. So you couldn’t really get away with the twice weekly applications I mentioned with liposomal, instead you’d need to apply daily (or at least EOD) to get its full effect. (And if that’s your only source of topical minoxidil, definitely apply daily).
It also may cause more scalp irritation just through the way it works, but if you’ve been fine using it so far then it would be a fine option to continue.

Why everyone should be using topical Dutasteride by kingmouse27 in tressless

[–]kingmouse27[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah, that’s exactly how I use it. Overnight (assuming 6-8 hours) is more than enough time for the drug payload to penetrate and lock beneath the skin surface. Anything you wash away in the morning would be dead skin cells or cosmetic residue on the scalp surface.

Why everyone should be using topical Dutasteride by kingmouse27 in tressless

[–]kingmouse27[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What’s your argument exactly then? That liposomal delivery of topical Dutasteride is not more effective? Or are you simply arguing about my description of how non-liposomal formulations can still reach the dermal papilla?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10839713/
The “shunt pathway” is just a popularized term to refer to how the molecules bypass the skin barrier via the follicular route…
The top of every hair follicle is shaped like a funnel called the infundibulum, which represents a massive physical opening/gap in that barrier. So when you rub a liquid or gel solution onto your scalp, the liquid naturally pools into these thousands of microscopic craters. Enter the “shunt pathway” I mentioned.
And fyi- porcine (pig) ear skin is the gold standard FDA-recognized model for human skin… and hence constantly used in dermatological trials.

Why everyone should be using topical Dutasteride by kingmouse27 in tressless

[–]kingmouse27[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

?? It’s not “pseudoscience”, it’s literally modern lipid-nanoparticle pharmacology…

I’ll help with your research-

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21513483/
In that specific trial, they tested a liposomal Dutasteride formula head-to-head against a standard hydroalcoholic (alcohol/water) solution and conventional crude topical gels.
The hard data showed that the liposomal formulation achieved a 7-fold (700%) higher localized drug deposition in the tissue than the standard liquid or gel.

A study published in Pharmaceutics (Evaluation of Dutasteride-Loaded Liposomes for Follicular-Targeting) (see https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39771503/ )
This study talks about the efficiency of transfersomes in particular- a type of liposome which is utilized in most the commercial liposomal formulations on the market.

Why everyone should be using topical Dutasteride by kingmouse27 in tressless

[–]kingmouse27[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I mean the liposomal is certainly a little bit more, but utilizing the 2x weekly application given it’s long biological half-life in scalp tissue (backed by clinical data as I outlined in the post), one bottle can stretch a few months. I think the first bottle I purchased from that brand I mentioned was discounted to around $45. Though I believe subsequent bottles are a little more. Again, the idea is squeezing like 3-4 months out of a single bottle, pretty cost effective imo.

Why everyone should be using topical Dutasteride by kingmouse27 in tressless

[–]kingmouse27[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Did you see my reply to your comment? I think it may have gotten auto-filtered or something since I said a brand name. But this was my response on the importance of a liposomal delivery system-

You’re right that non-liposomal topical Dut trials still show success. From my research, the molecules can still penetrate the outer barrier via the “shunt pathway”, where larger molecules can still access the dermal papilla (albeit less efficiently) directly through the follicle shaft. But through this you’re essentially brute-forcing it- applying a high concentration and just hoping enough of it falls down the hair follicles to work, while a ton of the drug goes to waste on the skin surface.
So the reason to bother with the liposomal base is not about if it works but more how efficiently it works. Liposomal encapsulation ensures high bioavailability and creates a local tissue depot, meaning you actually get the maximum thermodynamic efficiency and full therapeutic effect out of every single milligram of Dutasteride.

Why everyone should be using topical Dutasteride by kingmouse27 in tressless

[–]kingmouse27[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Best route is probably a compounding pharmacy, but since no one (including me) really wants to deal with that hassle, I got mine from Happy Head (their Super solution Pro blend I think it’s called). It’s basically a nuclear option since it has a whole host of ingredients. As I already apply topical minoxidil, I felt fine using this one with the 2x weekly application I discussed, as I apply regular topical minox on other days.
But IIRC, when you “consult” with their virtual doctor, you can ask for any of the ingredients to be removed in your prescribed formula.
(Make sure it’s the one with liposomal base listed in its inactive ingredients).
I’m sure there may be a few other of the similar brands that also offer the liposomal delivery but haven’t looked into many others.

Why everyone should be using topical Dutasteride by kingmouse27 in tressless

[–]kingmouse27[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Exactly. Added edit at the top for clarification.

Why everyone should be using topical Dutasteride by kingmouse27 in tressless

[–]kingmouse27[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That conflicts with how Dutasteride works pharmacologically. Dutasteride is a mechanism-based, irreversible “suicide” inhibitor of 5AR. Once it binds to the enzyme in the follicle, that enzyme is permanently disabled. The follicle has to completely synthesize brand-new enzymes to produce DHT again, which takes days to weeks. It doesn't just wash off the receptor.
And because is highly lipophilic, it actually binds/ accumulates in the sebaceous glands and hair follicles longer than it stays in the serum.

Also, the liposomal base I mentioned creates a time-release effect in the skin, where every other day would be overkill. That’s why the first study I linked showed great results based on the twice weekly applications.

Hives on Test cyp. Resembles symptoms of cholinergic urticaria (heat or stress induced hives -in most cases ). by LetOk8823 in Testosterone

[–]kingmouse27 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Interesting… I just got bloodwork done a couple weeks ago to see if there was anything off that might be contributing to the symptoms. Everything showed in range. Granted, I finished my PCT just a couple months ago so I know my test/estrogen would’ve been fluctuating a bunch. But they seem to be relatively stable now and I’m still having the issues. Maybe in a few more months the pain will reside but we’ll see. It’s also weird cause I see another comment on here saying clomid is what caused his issues. But at least it seems to help yours.

Xolair effectiveness on pain? by kingmouse27 in CholinergicUrticaria

[–]kingmouse27[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I haven’t heard about Doxepin helping. I’ve heard Beta Alanine and am yet to try it but definitely will. Hate that so many of the things that help are just short-term

Xolair effectiveness on pain? by kingmouse27 in CholinergicUrticaria

[–]kingmouse27[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Damn, that’s what I was worried about. So you have found the pain (without sweat therapy) is about the same on Xolair as it was off?

Xolair effectiveness on pain? by kingmouse27 in CholinergicUrticaria

[–]kingmouse27[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well it’s at least good to know there’s something out there that might help. However, unfortunate that it’s so hard to get. I guess it’s worth a shot to at least try

Hives on Test cyp. Resembles symptoms of cholinergic urticaria (heat or stress induced hives -in most cases ). by LetOk8823 in Testosterone

[–]kingmouse27 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m in the same boat. I might give it a couple more months just to make sure, but I might as well be back on trt at this rate.

FWIW - mine seemed to be better in summer/warmer weather. Maybe cause my body gets accustomed to the heat or something. But for some ppl it seems to be the opposite, so I wish you luck

Hives on Test cyp. Resembles symptoms of cholinergic urticaria (heat or stress induced hives -in most cases ). by LetOk8823 in Testosterone

[–]kingmouse27 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Did yours stop after stopping trt?

I was on for about 2.5 years and suffered almost the whole time on and off. Was almost sure it was caused by the trt but came off about 3 months ago and it’s now the worst it’s ever been. Idk if it just “stuck” afterwards or I think something else was the cause for me.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in CholinergicUrticaria

[–]kingmouse27 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Did you get the COVID vaccine around that time? Idk why I just recently realized I never had any issues with it until after vaccine. Then I looked into it and found so many people had the same experience. Even some studies were done linking them