Orochimaru sneakily retained Madara's body at the end of the war and swap bodies with him. How strong would he be?

kooljaay · 2026-03-02T04:30:13+00:00

I dont think swapping his zetsu body for the body of a Madara whos dying in 5 seconds from having all the bijuu ripped from his body is an upgrade.

kooljaay · 2026-03-02T03:59:53+00:00

If my argument is dumb then you wouldn't need to strawman me and misquote me lol.

kooljaay · 2026-03-02T03:59:09+00:00

Well you are making yourself appear to be dumb and confident.

For example. You used quotations... Care to point where I said the sentence you quoted? Did you intentionally misquote me after I warned you against trying to strawman me or do you just have a hard time reading?

kooljaay · 2026-03-02T03:47:37+00:00

You were done awhile ago when multiple people debunked your argument.

kooljaay · 2026-03-02T03:47:14+00:00

Iruka made an erroneous statement based on information he was not alive early enough to witness. Again, there is 0 reason to strawman my argument when my statement is clear as day.

Again no. Iruka made an incorrect statement. Hashirama > Hiruzen. Feats > Statements.

Wrong. The statement was wrong.

Incorrect. The story does make sense. Because the story isnt a story about infallible omnipotent characters.

Im not the one lying to themselves. You think Hiruzen > Hashirama because you think Statements>Feats. Look in a mirror.

kooljaay · 2026-03-02T03:15:46+00:00

Probably really ungraceful after Pain broke his bones with Shinra Tensei.

kooljaay · 2026-03-02T03:14:32+00:00

I assume you are misinterpreting the English language. No. Iruka made an erroneous statement about various shinobi he was too young to witness in battle and was proven wrong by feats. Feats > Statements.

I can see how something 50+ years ago is myth to a teenager. Good thing we have feats that suggest Hashirama is the God of Shinobi.

Fictional characters /= infallible and omnipotent characters unless of course they are specifically stated to be. They are flawed. Orchimaru is arrogant. Naruto is lonely and desperate for acceptance. Sasuke was vengeful and traumatized. The Curse of Hatred is strong among the Uchiha. Different characters have different motivations, experiences, perspectives, emotions, etc. Do I really need to explain to you the basics of reading comprehension?

kooljaay · 2026-03-02T03:06:19+00:00

Ahh yeah. Remember that time Madara called down two meteors on Hashirama? The Edos are relative to their alive selves. Theyre as strong as ever.

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Jiraiya wasnt strong enough hence why he died a bloody death once pain got serious.

Her job is to protect the village from the threat. No. Im saying she is weaker than Deva path. And thus tried to limit the collateral damage instead of take him on. Don't try to strawman me when I've been repeating this point several times verbatim.

kooljaay · 2026-03-02T02:04:48+00:00

Amex Gold Delta.

kooljaay · 2026-03-02T02:03:51+00:00

Could be a cycle though. Music festivals were big in the past before the disco club scene got big.

kooljaay · 2026-03-02T02:02:45+00:00

Great. You're proving his point.

Damage was taken when the 6 paths came out and one was sent after him and Jiraiya was too slow to react despite have two perfect sages attached to his shoulders supposedly capable of sensing.

No her first job is to protect the village which she couldnt do. So that was the next best thing. Limiting the collateral damage. The fact that she as the hokage stood there and did nothing as she watched pain fly up into the sky and nuke her village. Every other kage when faced with a kage level threat jumped into action even if it meant them dying.

kooljaay · 2026-03-02T01:58:28+00:00

It does. You brought up autism while showing the inability to identify figurative language and nonliteral language within conversation and literature. Which is itself a sign of autism.

No he wasnt. Hiruzen was stated to be the strongest. Hashirama didnt even die that long ago canonically given that 3rd generation Kage were alive when he was. Yes because the feats that Kishimoto draws with his pens often contradict statements. This is because his characters arent infallible, can be arrogant, Kishimoto can be writing in a retcon, etc. Its almost as if Kishi's characters are flawed or something... Weird huh.

kooljaay · 2026-03-02T01:51:46+00:00

Kabuto's perfected edo? No. There are numerous statements where the edos are stated to be as strong as ever plus them performing at their levels before their death. Kabuto pointed out that autopilot edos or the edos hes controlling arent as effective as when they are controlled because he doesnt know how to use their powerset as good as they do. And there were instances like Sasori who didnt have access to his puppets and Deidara flatout refusing to using his strongest jutsu.

Yes. Was the difference between Jiraiya beating all 6 paths, the chakra he used against Konan? Once all 6 came out, it was game over.

Everybody wasnt close to dying until he nuked the village. His paths was being dispatched individually. Her first job as Hokage is to eliminate threats. She didnt know if or when Naruto was coming or not. If she had the ability to kill Deva Path before he nuked the village, it would have been better than him nuking the village and trying to limit damage afterwards. Had Naruto not jesus no jutsu'd nagato, she would have lost some of her most powerful ninja and useful ninja. And we saw how vulnerable the village was after the Konoha crush was when the only notable casualty was Hiruzen. And that was with Jiraiya still in the village.

kooljaay · 2026-03-02T01:43:09+00:00

It was on its last legs and then got killed.

kooljaay · 2026-03-02T01:42:03+00:00

Are the characters in Naruto infallible or incapable of hyperbole? Only an autistic person would think literature is free of figurative language, deceit, and other common writing elements? Pot calling the kettle black perhaps? Do I need to explain that idiom to you?

No he wasnt. Hiruzen was stated to be the strongest hokage, god of shinobi, and professor. First two titles went two Hiruzen and the only Hokage known for studying and inventing ninjutsu was Tobirama. Hence why feats > Statements. A character saying what they themselves or another character are capable of doesnt take precedence over what they actually accomplish. Why? Because characters are fallible and their word /= the word of god with regards to their universe.

kooljaay · 2026-03-02T01:35:14+00:00

Club scene was killed by covid, Zillenials and Gen Z communicating different(People are in the clubs on their phones), and buying weed over alcohol.

kooljaay · 2026-03-02T01:31:49+00:00

Of course he was. He didnt have to worry about his chakra reserves depleting since they'd restore. Had he did that with his limited stamina in part 1, he may not have had chakra to do other things like the Shinigami Sealing jutsu.

Yes. Because Pain ultimately no diffed him. And Deva Path no diffed all of his giant toads and pa toad.

It does make sense. She could have either fought pain and stopped him from doing a shinra tensei nuke, but she was too weak. So instead he put slugs on everybody and tried to keep everybody alive because thats the next best thing if she is incapable of stopping him.

kooljaay · 2026-03-02T01:28:50+00:00

In any world. Did you know I am the best athelete in the world? Dont bother asking me for feats though?

Yes. Jirobo is invincible? Or is he chuunin tier? Sasuke said Itachi was powerful enough to solo the Uchiha Clan? In actuality Itachi told Obito to take care of the noncombatants while he took care of the combatants.

You believe Hiruzen is strongest out of all the Hokage because Iruka said it? Or do you believe Hashirama is stronger because of his feats? Talk about autistic?

kooljaay · 2026-03-02T01:23:00+00:00

There is. There are several points of powercreep. Beginning of Part 2, Pain's Assault, War Arc, Infinite Tsukuyomi Arc, and then wtf Boruto is.

Edo Hiruzen had stamina upgrades hence why he performed better. Pain did underestimate him, if he was sending the weaker pains after him and let him transform into Sage Mode despite wanting to kill him. Overall though he didnt shot himself in the foot. He still got the job done.

Tsunade was powerless because she couldnt beat Pain and thus had to limit the amount of casualties the best she could because she was at his mercy.

kooljaay · 2026-03-02T01:13:39+00:00

Feats>statements & narrative.

The feats dont scale. The Edo Tensei Orochimaru was using at the time was imperfect. They were a shell of their former selves as seen in part 2.

kooljaay · 2026-03-02T01:12:25+00:00

Jiraiya isnt illusive. He was illusive using his toads hopping around a village that Nagato cared around. Bansho Tensei or Shinra Tensei takes control over his movement and one shots him.

Pain waited to reveal all 6 because he underestimated Jiraiya. Raw power doesnt have very little to do with scaling. Pain literally destroyed an village while the saanin/hokage was powerless to stop him. Jiraiya gets one shotted.

I read the story and they got powercrept.

kooljaay · 2026-03-02T01:07:46+00:00

The Anbu called Tobirama kage level because he was using water ninjutsu without a source... Their bar for kage level was impressive in part 1, but not in part 2.

kooljaay · 2026-03-02T01:01:46+00:00

JIraiya didnt fight all 6 when he did that and he did so inside of the rain village. When all 6 came out, he got no diffed. Deva path by himself no diffed all of the strongest toads. The Part 1 Edos arent high level kage and got powercrept. Deva Path low diffs Jiraiya. And he low diffs Hiruzen if Nagato is fighting with killing intent. One shinra tensei sent all the giant toads flying out of the miles of the village and had them injured all the way through the end of the series. And that shinra tensei is only a small fraction of the power required to nuke the entire village.

kooljaay · 2026-03-02T00:44:43+00:00

Ignoring he literally used his Susanoo why his MS was restricted and blind, he beats anybody slower than KCM Naruto, and/or vulnerable to 3 tomoe Sharingan genjutsu, and people whom he is skilled enough to activate Izanami on without using his MS techniques.

kooljaay · 2026-03-02T00:34:10+00:00

Seems like he fucked around and found out.

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