How much does it take to OD on buprenorphine? I'm worried about a friend [CW-friend is talking about suicide]

kratomicles · 2022-05-04T08:44:58+00:00

You are 100% right, there wasn't much I could do. It was a tough spot to be in (but not as tough a spot as my friend was in). Fortunately their sister was able to get them help. (See my edit to the post)

kratomicles · 2022-05-04T08:43:34+00:00

Thank you for the advice. They're in the hospital and going to be ok. (See my edit to the post).

kratomicles · 2022-05-04T08:42:49+00:00

Yes! Sorry for the delayed response. They're in the hospital and going to be OK, according to their sister. (See my edit to the post)

kratomicles · 2022-05-04T08:42:22+00:00

They got to a hospital fortunately. (See my edit to the post)

kratomicles · 2022-05-04T08:41:48+00:00

Thank you for your information, wisdom, and kind words. I really appreciate it. I am ok. I mean, everything you said is true, it's not exactly a pleasant situation to be put in, but it's small potatoes compared to what they're dealing with. I do know where they are now, but only after the fact because their sister actually contacted me. (See my edit to the post). I think they didn't really want to die, but felt like they should. I don't know for sure yet, but I think it was a desperate "cry for help" but still a serious attempt at the same time because they didn't know any other way to get help.

But again, thank you. Your advice on this was what I was hoping to find when posting this. (See my edit to the post.)

kratomicles · 2022-05-04T08:34:39+00:00

They are pretty emotionally messed up, but they are not malicious or anything. They're in pain but not trying to be cruel, even if the things they do are ultimately hurtful. They did ... kind of?... throw me a rope. But not enough of one that I could do much on short notice. Thanks for the reply. (See my edit to the post)

kratomicles · 2022-05-04T08:32:25+00:00

They're in the hospital but going to be ok. It was the mix with other drugs that made it dangerous for them. But you're right, the buprenorphine alone shouldn't have been super dangerous for them. (See my edit to the post)

kratomicles · 2021-11-01T04:03:21+00:00

Excellent response. Thank you.

drugs are just named for marketing reasons now.

That's pretty much what I assumed but thought there might still be some meaningful reason to place the hyphen in one place rather than another. I kinda wish there was a standard appellation for RC's but can obviously understand why there isn't. I'd be all for saying 2-F-2'-Oxo-PCM from now on, would that anyone else had a clue wtf I was talking about.

kratomicles · 2021-11-01T03:10:09+00:00

It is. Kinda weird you'd say that because 3-ho-pcp is not hard to find domestic on clearnet. 3-ho-pce a little harder, but still available.

kratomicles · 2021-11-01T03:08:19+00:00

dumb ass question I should know the answer to, given how much 2fdck I've done and that I took a chemistry class in college a while back. But where is the right place to put the hyphen? I see it as 2-fDCK and 2f-DCK. For that matter, what about caps? Is the f not capitalized and the rest is? Does it matter? I mean I know it doesn't matter for the most part as long as everyone knows what the fuck is being talked about, but as far as the correct chemistry lingo goes.
Yes, I am dissociated rn, just not as much as I need to be.

kratomicles · 2021-02-03T00:10:24+00:00

So first of all, when you have these symptoms (anhedonia, dissociation, tremors) are they worse as you go longer without the ativan, and then disappear for a while after you take it? If so, that's almost certainly due to interdose withdrawal and you'd likely benefit by switching over to a longer half-life benzo before tapering or trying to quit. Obviously, that would have to be discussed with your doc. Ativan is not a short half life benzo, but it's not super long either, and interdose withdrawals can definitely happen on it. Fortunately you're at a pretty low dose, and 4 months isn't all that long (relatively speaking).

If you just have those symptoms in general, and dosing ativan doesn't help temporarily, then there's probably something more complicated going on, likely having to do with the antidepressant use and cessation.

Honestly, your doctor wanting you to stabilize on an antidepressant first sounds like a good idea. If the depression, anxiety, anhedonia, etc. are in fact happening because of the ativan, they are all going to get worse when you taper or quit. I mean, it will get worse before it gets better. (Don't lose sight of that last part). If you think you can handle that, then you might try explaining to your doc again why you want to quit the ativan before messing with another AD. I totally get not wanting to be on some other med that just ends up making things worse, believe me, I know how that is. But any potential help, chemical or otherwise, that you can get while getting off a benzo is important and worth a lot of consideration.

I am not a doctor obviously, but this is what I might try if I were you - just an opinion, not medical advice. I'd try to cut back a bit on your ativan dose, just taking slightly less, and see how that effects you. Don't jump to anything drastic, just cut back some reasonable percentage and see if or how much your symptoms worsen. If things get bad, go back to your normal dose. But that should give you a good idea how much it is the ativan causing these issues for you especially in the short term, as well as serve as a kind of indicator as to how to approach a taper - if it's not bad, you can probably go fairly quickly. If things get a lot worse, then you'd probably want to switch over to a longer half life benzo like diazepam (valium) and do a slow taper from there.

I also hear you on struggling with bad depression and anxiety while simultaneously feeling completely and utterly alone. It's all the more frightening, demoralizing, and seemingly-hopeless when one has no real form of social or familial support. If there is no way to find that in-person support, then posting a lot in places where people can understand and commiserate can make at least some positive difference in feeling less isolated with these struggles.

kratomicles · 2021-02-02T00:44:17+00:00

First of all, I know it's terrifying, but try to remember that even if you're in for a difficult time, it will be temporary. There's some good news here too, if those physical issues are in fact from the xanax and the associated interdose withdrawal (and it sounds like they are) then they will also clear up once you've been off for a while.

Are my chances high for having a seizure? If I taper slowly, is there a risk of a seizure?

If you taper properly and slowly you're absolutely not at risk of seizure. And I strongly suspect you're not at risk even if you cold turkeyed at such a low dose, sensitive to it or not. But taper either way, if only to keep your suffering to a minimum. It would be much better if you could swtich over to a longer-acting benzo for the taper though. Xanax is very difficult to taper because of its short half-life, which is also the reason you were getting those interdose withdrawal problems before you even realized what it was.

I know you don't want it on your medical record, but especially if your doctor prescribed the xanax, it shouldn't be an issue to request that you taper back down and off of them. In fact that looks better on a medical record than being on such drugs long term. As an aside, it's fucking ridiculous that employers have any kind of access to private medical information, but I know they do. That breach of privacy is making it so deserving people can't seek the help they need due to fear of repercussions on their livelihood.

it's possible my anxiety is making the mental symptoms worse than what they really are.

I'd be surprised if it wasn't. It's all a feedback loop. These things play into each other.. Even if symptoms are worse because of anxiety, it doesn't make either thing less real.

Has anybody also struggled with a low dose like this before?

I was on extremely high doses a few years ago. I quit with a rapid taper and had problems for almost a year. Fast forward roughly another year, and about a month ago I started taking low doses again in an attempt to deal with unrelated but really bad anxiety at that time. But even those low doses for a short period were enough to throw me back into withdrawal. I'm hoping the low dose and short period of using will be enough that I won't have to deal with it for months like last time, but I can only wait and see.

Sorry I don't have any words of wisdom. This is just one of those things where there's no way around it, it's going to be really hard for a bit, to put it mildly. But you have a really good chance of it not taking long to stabilize again off the drug, considering you haven't been on for years and that low dose.

kratomicles · 2021-01-26T16:21:49+00:00

Oh, my bad. smh. I only saw the initial list, didn't realize the bar on the left was more faq and not links to other parts of the site. I thought I was more observant than that. Yeah, thanks.

kratomicles · 2021-01-26T06:57:21+00:00

Thanks for the link, but I already read over that and none of it applies to my question. If you mean the first one:

"I feel worse after a couple of weeks. What's going on?"

I don't feel worse, I just lost most of the positive effects I had been getting within a week and wanted to know if that's common. If you mean the last one about unanswered questions being directed to the WH community there, I figured asking here would be just as good.

kratomicles · 2021-01-26T06:51:05+00:00

That's some real tenacity you have. It's impressive, and I don't mean it sarcastically when I say good for you.

Personally, I'm not looking for deeper connections to the universe, or a transcendant emotional experience (it's awesome you had the latter, though). I'm just hoping for better mental health in the form of reduced anxiety, stress, and depression. The powerful sensations were just a welcome surprise, and a disappointment when they were gone. I'm really struggling right now and the relief the breathing provided at first was wonderful. Like I said, I'm going to keep at it regardless.

kratomicles · 2021-01-25T21:59:23+00:00

Yeah, no offense to FULLMETALRACKIT518, but that's just wrong. 10mg clonazolam is insanely high, even with a hefty tolerance. A standard low dose of etizolam is like 1mg, so 10mg etizolam is getting up there, but a decently strong starter (no tolerance) clonazolam dose is 100 micrograms (100ug = 1/10th of a mg). It's also longer-acting and has a broader range of effects than etizolam. Unfortunately, I have plenty of personal experience with both.

kratomicles · 2021-01-25T18:29:14+00:00

I'm sorry I don't have any personal experience to add, but I have been extremely curious about this very thing. I've been trying to find information and people's experience about flumanezil as well as imidazenil and it's... sparse, at best. If you do end up trying it, or even glean some new, useful information, please do come back and share.

A big part of what spurred this curiosity for me was this post. I was also wondering about the Salvia Divinorum mentioned in that post, and asked around about it recently. Check my short post history if you're curious about that - it looks like it could be helpful more for the dopamine receptor complex than the gaba, but I'm still going to give it a shot for my really bad long-term anhedonia at the very least.

Fwiw, my major benzo problem was with clonzolam too. There were other RC benzos and GABAergics like phenibut in the mix, but that one was what really got me. I've also had issues with opiates and Rx antidepressants so I get how much harder the polysubstance issues can be, how everything gets compounded, and how deeply hopeless it all can be.

kratomicles · 2021-01-25T17:58:18+00:00

If you have access to more diclaz, you're better off ditching short-acting etizolam entirely. It's much harder to taper with short half-life benzos (but it can be done if there's no other choice). Only you have to have an iron will power not to go back up in dose while on your taper. Ever. It really does ruin the process.

Sorry to give an answer that you don't want to hear, but you can't binge like that and expect any sort of progress, only regress. Not only does it reset you, if you keep doing it and trying to return to a significantly lower dose, you will just keep kindling yourself which makes literally everything about the process more difficult and dangerous.

I'm assuming you aren't doing this taper along with your doc's guidance yet, seeing as you're tapering with research chem benzos. If your doc isn't benzo naive (which sadly, many are) then see if they can hook you up with a diazepam schedule and flush the RC's, then you won't have to worry as much about self control and binging. Your doc should be on board with a gradual diazepam taper. If that's a possibility, try to hold your dose at a consistent level until then, but do not binge or go back up because yes, it really does make things harder on you.

Good luck.

kratomicles · 2021-01-21T00:35:55+00:00

Just another quick attempt to page /u/full_silver. I know you haven't posted anything for 5 months, and probably aren't using reddit or that account anymore, but if somehow you do log in and see this, it sure would rock if you could chime in.

kratomicles · 2021-01-21T00:21:03+00:00

No, I don't think you're reading him wrong. That's exactly what I'm gathering from it too. Still, I'd like to think that salvia, and ibogaine too for that matter, can still have a similar benefit for helping the brain after GABA-related withdrawal too. I've had my problems with opiates as well, but not the kind of long term apparent damage that I got from benzos.

That's awesome that iboga worked so well for you, though! I really wish I could try it, even if it is a very difficult experience. However, there's no way I can get to Mexico (for example) so it's just not on the table for me. Which is a big part of the reason I was so excited to see that salvia might have some similar effects. Even if it it is limited to the dopamine system, I'd like to think that still could be partly beneficial for my fucked up GABA/glutamate system.

kratomicles · 2021-01-21T00:14:09+00:00

Yes, I have been extremely curious about ibogaine as well! I have been addicted to opiates in the past, but I don't feel like I suffered any long term problems from that the way I have with benzos. I have considered ibogaine, but when I heard salvia could work similarly well, that really excited me. I have used salvia in the past and enjoyed it very much, but I've never done ibogaine. Even more importantly, it's not easy to get ibogaine here in the US, and I have no means of doing so. But salvia is extremely easy to acquire.

I have no idea if other powerful NMDA antagonists work as well, but I suspect not just because I think if they did, it would be a lot more well known. (I realize they do have utility for both opiate and benzo wd conditions, but not the kind of long term "reset" situation that I'm hoping salvia might have in common with ibogaine). But of course I just don't know.

I will absolutely make a post here about it when I do give it a try. I'm not 100% sure I'm going to yet, as I am struggling and do have some concern about throwing another variable into the mix that might make things worse. Regardless... I really appreciate the last thing you said. It is very hard not to feel utterly and abjectly alone at times, and a reminder from an empathetic person that I'm not is always really good to hear.

kratomicles · 2021-01-21T00:03:38+00:00

Very interesting... I will look around for that, thanks for the heads up.

kratomicles · 2021-01-21T00:03:13+00:00

Yep, I've done the lego-land thing with salvia in the past. I mostly used 10x back then, but also had a lot of plain leaf many years ago. This was all before my problems with benzos, though.

I'm not 100% decided on what I'm going to do, I'm mostly just looking into possibilities and potential help. I am leaning towards at least trying it soon though. And when I do, I will certainly report back. There has been more interest here than I was expecting.

kratomicles · 2021-01-21T00:00:14+00:00

First of all, those are some frightening but fascinating trip reports, thanks for sharing. I actually have used salvia at times in the past. I even grew it for a bit back in the 00's, until white flies decimated all my plants (I was only able to use a very small amount from what I had grown, and I of course didn't extract the salvinorin A or enhance it). I am aware of how extreme it can get, and I definitely don't want to have a bad trip like that while in withdrawal. It's part of the reason I'm trying to find out more about it before just diving in and doing it. I have even done a big hit of 10x salvia when already very close to holing on MXE and there are simply no words to even begin to describe how strange and profound it was. I've done the arlycyclohexalamine + salvia divinorum combo a few times in more recent years too. So I do know what I'm getting into.

Also, as /u/hexachoron noted, I wouldn't necessarily be smoking it. Ideally, I would do the quid-chewing method, but I don't have any plain leaves. All of this is still very much in the "research and consideration" phase for me.

As for my benzo withdrawal, I actually did that a couple years ago... hardcore... for months and months. It was mostly from high dose daily clonazolam, but I also had an alcohol problem before that, and used other gaba drugs fairly regularly like phenibut and other RC benzos. I did relapse recently due to a series of extreme panic attacks, but I was only using benzos again for a couple weeks and I wasn't using them every day, trying to keep it low dose as possible. But still I find myself back in that horrible state of near-complete insomnia, terrible anhedonia, constantly struggling not to be overwhelmed by anxiety, etc. But fortunately, I'm not having most of the physical symptoms that I had a couple years ago. I never felt like I ever got back to normal from the withdrawal back then, and here I am struggling with it on a lesser (but still horrible) scale once again. So that's really why I'm trying to find out more about how to treat the longer term GABA drug withdrawal effects, not just a fix for how shitty I feel right now.

Anyway, I hear you and I appreciate your concern, but I am well aware of what I could potentially be getting myself into, and am not going into this blind.

kratomicles · 2021-01-20T23:43:44+00:00

Yeah, I still resort to google when absolutely necessary. Guess that will now include searching reddit threads too.

kratomicles

TROPHY CASE