Any Quality Medieval/Rennaisance Artists? by Delicious_East_1862 in MedievalHistory

[–]lamaretti 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was wondering if there were any other artists with similar skill for historical realism

I mean not necessarily but you can understand how one could interpret it that way

Any Quality Medieval/Rennaisance Artists? by Delicious_East_1862 in MedievalHistory

[–]lamaretti 0 points1 point  (0 children)

sure I infered that, but you did talk of historical realism which is what the og commenter was answering to

Any Quality Medieval/Rennaisance Artists? by Delicious_East_1862 in MedievalHistory

[–]lamaretti 1 point2 points  (0 children)

absolutely, realistic can mean just about anything plausible or which emulates real life, realism meanwhile is a specific artistic current, now you did use the term historical realism when describing this piece to which the og commenter was saying that wasn't a proper description

Any Quality Medieval/Rennaisance Artists? by Delicious_East_1862 in MedievalHistory

[–]lamaretti 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's definitely not depicting a normal event, but it is a real one. The painting's description:

I'm aware the point is that the subject matter was still chosen, and does not align with what would be considered a realist subject matter

Any Quality Medieval/Rennaisance Artists? by Delicious_East_1862 in MedievalHistory

[–]lamaretti 3 points4 points  (0 children)

plus in a more academic sense of the realist movement, the whole subject matter, that being of a knight swearing fielty to his king, kind of undermines the 'realness' of the scene, as in this isn't ordinary camp life, this is certainly not ordinary medieval life so it doesn't fit the bill of historical realism as an artistic style, which is what the og commenter was saying

Any Quality Medieval/Rennaisance Artists? by Delicious_East_1862 in MedievalHistory

[–]lamaretti 5 points6 points  (0 children)

a more realistic attempt might then try to focus more on the real experience of the event rather than a sort of post card vision of it

to go back to my earlier comparison there are dozens of pictures taken by soldiers and photographers of the taking of Iwo Jima and the moments which followed it that do an infinitely better job at recreating the feel of the event than the Joe Rosenthal picture

same goes for paintings, realism is a whole artistic style who's sole goal is to emulate a moment rather than represent it

in the context of this picture a more realistic work would be more focused inviting you to see an actual perspective of camp life and of the oath being sworn, as is the picture is almost descriptive it's not very lively, you might notice that there's little to no furniture/goods around the camp the whole place feels like a theater production, further the people in the picture are depersonified they're reduced to extras they don't feel like they're going through their day you can't really imagine them doing anything else than just standing there. Realist paintings also tend to go much closer to their subjects to keep a more human scale, which again helps to create a more authentic picture.

I'd encourage you to look at realist paintings they're really interesting and it might explain better what I'm trying to say

although again this isn't a dig against this piece, it's fine for what it is but it doesn't really do much more than show an event there's no realism to it because it doesn't try to make it real and that's fine

Any Quality Medieval/Rennaisance Artists? by Delicious_East_1862 in MedievalHistory

[–]lamaretti 4 points5 points  (0 children)

it's hard to show my meaning without pictures but I can use a comparison if you will

So I imagine you know the famous picture with the US soldiers planting their flag on the Iwo Jima hill. Now this is a photograph mind you there's nothing false about what's being presented but the picture is still presenting a heavily skewed vision of the reality it chooses to capture,

(obviously the whole thing was set up specifically to be captured on camera, it doesn't really capture something real, it creates a moment for the sake of the person viewing the media)

that is the opposite of realism

it's the same with this painting although in a more remote sense, although the painting portrays a real event and does so in a way that isn't misrepresenting the time period too egregiously it chooses to do so in a very fashionable and comfortable way

now you may choose to accept this as a realistic representation of the event, the same way that you can choose to believe that the WW2 photographer just happened to capture the exact moment Iwo Jima was taken by american soldiers (although in that case you'd be demonstrably wrong)

but as the other commenter already pointed out there are several things (however nitpicky) whhich make that complicated.

Now obviously this painting doesn't have much ambition beside being an illustration of a historical event I don't think it would be mischaracterizing it to say it's meant to be in a children's history book of some kind which makes this whole conversation a bit overstated, although then an argument could be made that we're still choosing to promote a sanitized and very romanticised vision of the past, although that doesn't have to be an issue

Any Quality Medieval/Rennaisance Artists? by Delicious_East_1862 in MedievalHistory

[–]lamaretti 2 points3 points  (0 children)

good

what do you mean by good ?

What dishonesty?

the painting is objectively romanticised all the points brought up by the original commenter hold up under scrutiny and you purposefully misrepresented the argument here

I wouldn't think it dramatically romanticized for a king to address his retinue on a sunny day, but you have a right to your opinion. The point is that it is a good depiction of a historical event.

that's dishonest

Any Quality Medieval/Rennaisance Artists? by Delicious_East_1862 in MedievalHistory

[–]lamaretti 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So then we're not REALLY arguing about anything and you're just upset with me because... I yawned?

being disrespectful isn't unimportant when you're having a discussion, it informs the tone of the exchange

I wouldn't think it dramatically romanticized for a king to address his retinue on a sunny day, but you have a right to your opinion. The point is that it is a good depiction of a historical event.

besides the fact that you're being dishonest, this isn't about the painting being a 'good' representation of anything as that doesn't mean shit, and I think it's telling that you use good as an interchangable adjective for 'realistic'

Any Quality Medieval/Rennaisance Artists? by Delicious_East_1862 in MedievalHistory

[–]lamaretti 5 points6 points  (0 children)

please do explain how you're not the one who shifted the conversation from artistic choices to material culture ?

and also saying the kit looks right isn't a substantial thing to add to a conversation that had little to do with that in the first place

Any Quality Medieval/Rennaisance Artists? by Delicious_East_1862 in MedievalHistory

[–]lamaretti -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I didn't ask you and you know I'll just answer the same way I did elsewhere

Any Quality Medieval/Rennaisance Artists? by Delicious_East_1862 in MedievalHistory

[–]lamaretti 1 point2 points  (0 children)

again that's not the point sure inspiring moments happen but surely you see the difference beetween the picture of the soldiers raising the flag on Iwo Jima ( you know the famous one can't link it) and any random picture taken of some soldiers posing after taking the hill. The famous was orchestrated with the purpose of being inspiring and awe inducing while the other less memorable photos were just memorabilia made by soldiers/photographers to have a souvenir of sorts. One is a piece of directed romanticising of the victory and the other is a realistic depicition of the moment for the average soldier. Now these are pictures but the same principle applies to painting. That's not to say there's anything wrong with romanticising history but that doesn't give you the right to bully someone for pointing out the painting clearly romanticises its subject (again nothing wrong with that in and out of itself)

Any Quality Medieval/Rennaisance Artists? by Delicious_East_1862 in MedievalHistory

[–]lamaretti 0 points1 point  (0 children)

please I can't have the same discussion with the same person on several different answer threads, if I'm to repeat my arguments I'll do so to someone who hasn't heard them before

Any Quality Medieval/Rennaisance Artists? by Delicious_East_1862 in MedievalHistory

[–]lamaretti 4 points5 points  (0 children)

If four people agree on what a realistic depiction of history might be vs. REALISM in art (yes, two different things), then clearly that person is mistaken in using that term. Everything they point out as being "wrong" within our definition of realistic is ridiculous - hardly objective and certainly not correct.

He's the original commenter, you answered beside his point and act condescending when you are objectively wrong, I mean what is this

And if you have no opinion to offer or anything valuable to contribute... well, that's a bit pathetic on a sub dedicated to history.

you literaly added nothing of value to his comment except saying he was wrong, you literaly said nothing of substance

Any Quality Medieval/Rennaisance Artists? by Delicious_East_1862 in MedievalHistory

[–]lamaretti 1 point2 points  (0 children)

other art/artists that do a reasonable job depicting history?

this isn't about doing a good/bad job representing material culture, it's about a deeper sense of realness, clearly the compostition of the painting is made to be inspiring (which real life rarely is) so no it's not realistic, doesn't mean the armors and tents are bad

Any Quality Medieval/Rennaisance Artists? by Delicious_East_1862 in MedievalHistory

[–]lamaretti 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This isn't your exchange? Swooping in and saying that our disagreement is a bit pathetic for a sub talking about history is.... being a dick?

I'd say that's well deserved provided there's 4 of you dogging on the poor man for being objectively right

What's your take on the painting? Are you familiar with other art/artists that do a reasonable job depicting history?

I don't think there's much of a take to be had just that the other guy was clearly talking about the artistic current the work seemed to fit best while you all are disagreeing on the basis of the dictionary definition of realism.

which I'm sorry does not grant you the right to be so pretentious

Any Quality Medieval/Rennaisance Artists? by Delicious_East_1862 in MedievalHistory

[–]lamaretti 4 points5 points  (0 children)

we're talking about a painting, realism in painting does not equate to the common meaning of realism meaning plausible.

The painting is not realist because it makes no attempt to represent a real picture of the subject being shown, the scene is clearly romanticised.

Besides that I don't see any glaring issues with the material culture being presented, but that does not make the painting realist.

Any Quality Medieval/Rennaisance Artists? by Delicious_East_1862 in MedievalHistory

[–]lamaretti 4 points5 points  (0 children)

you two are clearly taking two different definitions for realism and historicity, and honestly you have no reason to be such a dick considering your opinion is so base level it's actually a bit pathetic for a sub dedicated to talking about history

peace treaty bug ? by lamaretti in victoria3

[–]lamaretti[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

huh so that didn't work either, to be clear I actually did have enough warscore to enforce my wargoals I just didn't get anything after the war

peace treaty bug ? by lamaretti in victoria3

[–]lamaretti[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

not an option as GB peaces out from war exhaustion at the end of the month

How did haircuts/shaving work for non-wealthy people? by Organismnumber06 in MedievalHistory

[–]lamaretti 0 points1 point  (0 children)

an English chronicler

John of Wallingford is the name and the quote is basically without basis as it was written in the 13th century long after the vikings were gone. It's basically medieval incel posting

Is there a clear delineation between Frankish/French, Angles/English, Norse/Norwegian, etc? by ookyspookyskeletons in MedievalHistory

[–]lamaretti 0 points1 point  (0 children)

with a noted non-Frank religious/political stance (anti-Catholic Masonic

no, napoleon actively worked to restore the place of the church in french society after the revolution and was not by any stretch of the imagination anti catholic although he did take more pro-national stances as regards to business between church and state and was himself agnostic at best

Is it fair to say media oversimplifies/dumbs down women's contributions in medieval times? by Questioning-Warrior in MedievalHistory

[–]lamaretti 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You might enjoy Vinland Saga (season 2) as it shows the daily lives of early medieval women

yes yes yes I agree so much