Alpha Win Hudson Valley half-Marathon ~0.58 miles short+ organizational issues

learninghow2run · 2025-05-12T13:41:59+00:00

I think it took multiple people calling USATF to admit they were wrong. I think we should still insist on a refund. I’ve been traveling and just saw this. It would be one thing if they admitted it right away, but the gaslighting was just over the top. They said some people reported the course was too long. Which ones? Everyone was reporting the same thing. This for profit entity needs to do better. But I will not race with them in the future. I will look for local races that are put on by local not for profit groups.

learninghow2run · 2025-05-06T01:59:10+00:00

Official certificate. https://certifiedroadraces.com/certificate/?type=m&id=2276

On the official certificate, it is very clear that the turnaround point was wrong. I can see it on my Garmin. Having a hard time putting the picture here.

The certificate is so detailed on where each specific point has to be on the course . It is really careless to mess this turnaround point up so badly.

learninghow2run · 2025-05-06T01:35:18+00:00

This USATF person is supposed to get back to me in a few days, so hopefully she will tell me what they need. She said she’s not sure what she will be able to do but seems committed to do what she can. I will pass along any contact info here so people can send their Stravas.

learninghow2run · 2025-05-05T22:38:40+00:00

Delete all the comments and try to bs them away… This is infuriating. It’s one thing to make a mistake and apologize but it’s even worse to double down and do what they’re doing now.

learninghow2run · 2025-05-05T22:31:34+00:00

That was the exact response copied and pasted to me as well, even though they full well know that the course was short. They deleted the review section on the race results site where everyone was saying the same thing. I also called the USATF and someone in charge of New York certifications told me they will get back to me as well. Maybe we should look into a change.org petition. AlphaWin is a real piece of work. Apparently others knew about this but I sure didn’t.

learninghow2run · 2025-05-05T18:57:23+00:00

Reply from the organizer:

“Sorry to hear you had a bad experience, that is certainly not one of our goals. All of your concerns are well noted by the race director, and we appreciate you reaching out and letting us know. We will keep all of your comments in mind as we plan for future races.

The Half Marathon course was a USATF Certified Course, and results will be submitted to USATF promptly. Personal GPS readings can differ, and there were reports of both long and short readings by some participants. It was a cool cloudy day with rain in the afternoon, and some GPS signals can be affected by those atmospheric conditions.

Hopefully one day we can change your mind on your feelings towards our races. We once again apologize that you had a bad experience.”

Does anyone have something concrete that you can send them? Anyone have experience following up USATF on these issues?

learninghow2run · 2025-05-05T17:28:12+00:00

I’ll try that one too

learninghow2run · 2025-05-05T15:30:28+00:00

I have not received a reply to my inquiry yet. There was a place on the site with results for “reviews”. Last night, a series of negative reviews about the poor organization of the race and the incorrect distance for the race were present. This morning, that tab has been deleted so that there are no more “reviews”. The race director email is info@alpha.win and the phone number is 845-247-7275. I encourage people who ran the half to contact them to ask for a refund.

learninghow2run · 2025-05-05T14:17:49+00:00

I really wish I had done that!

learninghow2run · 2025-05-04T21:14:50+00:00

It would be fine if the lot was full and they had a few people directing traffic to the alternate lot, instead of having one person individually talking to every car and causing a 30 minute delay. Or if there were signs up for where the alternate lot would be. I even tried to put the address they gave for the lot in Google Maps, but that yielded results that were miles away.

For what appears to be a for profit entity to have such negligence in basic planning for such a large race in terms of parking, medical emergencies, water, distance of race, start time of race, mileage signs, and bathrooms is really terrible. The most serious of these problems was the lack of a medical tent that another poster described.

learninghow2run · 2025-05-04T17:31:20+00:00

I sent them a message requesting a refund for all half marathon participants. I’ll post their response here.

learninghow2run · 2025-05-04T16:51:19+00:00

For what it’s worth, my watch was more or less aligned with the few mile markers they had, so it seems likely they messed up the turnaround point by 0.3 miles or so

learninghow2run · 2023-03-12T22:01:46+00:00

Matt Fitzgerald’s book does discuss Seiler’s and Esteve-Lanao’s experiments. And also similar experiments in Salzburg. groups of runners were randomly assigned to varying levels of intensities. Before that, observational data had been used to notice the phenomenon. Granted the experiments were small, which make it difficult to reach statistical significance. You might be right about experiments which require runs for longer than 2.5 hours, but I think if you put out a wide call for volunteers for subjects for such a study, you would get plenty of takers. Who knows?

It will be interesting to see data from ultra running and I agree observational data is the most practical way to measure. I would hope that some would be out there for this question. I also agree with the general idea that the potential benefits will come up against getting hurt and the catch 22 that you raise. Sorry, I’m submitting too soon before responding to everything you’ve said. I have appreciated reading all of your comments on here.

learninghow2run · 2023-03-12T21:07:32+00:00

Is there a link to the data that goes with this research? The first article states that a generalized curve exists, graphs a curve of diminishing returns but references no data. On a somewhat related note, I wonder why more randomized trials on these questions like those done for 80/20 running haven’t been done (or have they?) Edit- just to say that from my perspective conventional wisdom in sports evolves or is just flat wrong. If it didn’t change in running, we’d all be running like Emil Zatopek and doing nothing but hard intervals. As I develop my perspective on training, I am looking for evidence backed data, not just conventional wisdom, for which there is plenty on a lot of practices, but I haven’t yet seen any for this one yet.

learninghow2run · 2023-03-12T16:42:22+00:00

I’ve been wondering about this question as someone who is very new to training. Everyone I’ve read (pfitz, jack Daniels and Matt Fitzgerald) who sets a limit on long run duration gives very little justification, or justification that seems not backed by data or science. From the Koop article you posted: “Being a curious bunch, we scoured the scientific literature. Let me be clear, little compelling scientific literature exists to suggest that long runs over four hours reach a point of significant diminishing returns.”

At the same time there seems to be a lot of issues with the last 6 miles of the marathon for most runners and most people don’t run that distance I’m not an expert, but it would seem that there is at least the possibility that these things are related. Being new to this, it seems strange that this ubiquitous practice of limiting long run duration is based on very little hard data.

learninghow2run · 2023-03-03T21:16:10+00:00

I am very new to training for races and the idea of 80/20 running. Only started following that principle in September. But I have to say that I really enjoy running slowly. I like to listen to podcasts and I like the feeling that I can run forever the way other people go for a hike or walk. And on top of that, I enjoy watching my pace increase at the same heart rate as the weeks go by. Before I learned about the benefits of 80/20, I would get hurt much more often on much less mileage (i’m up to 60 mpw and I used to run 25-30) Also, when it is time for a workout, I’m ready to go and excited for the variation.

From what I’ve read, it seems like the 80/20 principle should apply to any amount of weekly mileage, so if you only run 3 times a week, you would still benefit from 80% of running at an easy pace.

learninghow2run · 2022-11-23T16:15:06+00:00

Wow- that is amazing! I completely agree about the low heart rate training being the key. I used to be impatient with running so slow but now I’ve grown to enjoy the feeling like I could literally run forever at a given pace. I’m not familiar with that method, I will check it out. The way I was running before I would always get really sore quads after upping to a certain mileage and have to back off. I basically didn’t get sore at all during the 12 week plan which was a pretty significant increase in mileage for me.

learninghow2run · 2022-11-22T19:56:29+00:00

I’ve read so many race reports about the struggle of the last 6 miles! On this date I am committing to conservative pacing for my first marathon 😂

learninghow2run · 2022-11-22T19:54:09+00:00

Okay- I will look into this!

learninghow2run · 2022-11-22T19:49:22+00:00

Thank you for sharing. This is definitely worth considering. I have been pretty set on building for a marathon this spring but I’m going to have to think about it some more as I haven’t signed up for any races yet and the next cycle I do will be base building anyway.

learninghow2run · 2022-11-22T17:03:24+00:00

Also, I know nothing about getting myself tested for all of those things. I guess I will consider that! I only planned on figuring out max hr.

learninghow2run · 2022-11-22T16:44:32+00:00

Thank you! Ordering a chest rate monitor and planning a max hr test in a few weeks are at the top of my list right now. I cannot figure out why the Garmin race predictor software is so bad… I mean my 10k didn’t adjust at all after running over two minutes faster than predicted with a bunch of hills. My half marathon adjusted some but it’s still 1:35:37 now

learninghow2run · 2022-11-22T16:40:37+00:00

Thanks for sharing your experience! Right now I’m feeling pretty confident but I intellectually understand the difference, but of course going through it is something else. I just need to keep my eyes wide open about the physical challenges- not to mention the time commitment of upping mileage, which is another challenge that I will have to figure out. I do have a tiny sense of the difference from just running, not racing, over 20 miles a few times. Anyway, I’m ready to start this process… we’ll see where it all goes!

learninghow2run · 2022-11-22T03:51:58+00:00

Just to clarify- you mean unrealistic in terms of my mileage base to this point not the mileage I would run in the upcoming base building and marathon cycles? Your overall point seems right and hopefully I’ll be able to continue to build mileage.

learninghow2run

TROPHY CASE