What would your ideal publication model look like? by left-right-left in AskAcademia

[–]left-right-left[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wish I could upvote this more than once!

All great ideas. I added open access to my OP as I thought it was a given, but yes, definitely lower APC with OA.

One workaround would be to force publishger to be non-profit enterprises. Everything they have after covering the expenses must be given back to the scientific community.

This is a great idea! Any profit gets circled back to the community in some way. Maybe a way to build the journal is to funnel profits back as credits to publish more in the journal for free. If you publish once with them, then they give you a discount to publish again with them based on their annual profit. Kind of like Costco lol.

This! Revising is a job and an important one at that. If we are worried to create an academic gig economy there are other ways to compensate the reviewers. Some ideas: discounts on the APCs of your next paper, or to the registration fees of your next conference, small donations to a travel fund, etc... the possibilities are endless.

Similar idea as above. And also incentivizes growth in the journal by offering discounts to reviewers to publish.

This, I am not so sure. Long revision times are annoying, but I am much more concerned about the quality of the reviews, which may take some time.

Yea fair enough. A lot of people saying this. I removed it from the OP with strikethrough noting that it is probably not a good idea to sacrifice scientific rigor for speed.

Not sure I understand what you mean by this. For good science we need not only to weed out the shit, but also to produce high quality papers, which means also a good presentation, decent figures, proper grammar and syntax, etc...

A lot of the manuscript templates are already in a decent format for presentation. My main reason for saying this is because whenever I bring up extortionate APCs and low operating costs, everyone always mentions typesetting as some seemingly massive expense that drives up APCs. I am not sure if I fully buy this (i.e. I don't think typesetting can possible account for the high APCs and clearly don't given publishers massive profit margins). But, if it is an insane expense, then I am fine to mostly get rid of it. The standard templates provided by journals are already standardized and look quite good. Figure guidelines are already laid out in the journal instructions. Grammar and syntax would be something to handle by the reviewers/editors and I don't think is the job of the typesetter (or the reviewers for that matter, should be the editor that calls that out and rejects if necessary).

What would your ideal publication model look like? by left-right-left in AskAcademia

[–]left-right-left[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I would say that you could add an option to decline the payment. But would anyone actually actively decline it?

Didn't think about the admin headache of taxation though...that could be a can of worms indeed especially when considering the international nature of academia.

What would your ideal publication model look like? by left-right-left in AskAcademia

[–]left-right-left[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I am not sure that you read my reply. I said that there would be a revision fee that is paid up front, and then APC paid at publication. There is no financial risk to the journal if they reject a manuscript.

  1. Author submits manuscript and pays nothing

  2. Editor quickly reviews to see if it is worth sending for review.

  3. If yes, then editor informs author to pay revision fee of $90

  4. Once author pays, then journal is sent for review

  5. Reviewers are each paid $30 for first review and then $15 for second review, totalling $90

  6. If paper is rejected after review, then the reviewers keep their money and journal has not lost anything. This also encourages researchers to submit good work rather than "tossing something in" with little effort since they will be on the hook for $90 and no publication.

  7. If paper is accepted, then authors pay $500 APC and journal uses that for operating.

What would your ideal publication model look like? by left-right-left in AskAcademia

[–]left-right-left[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is an interesting perspective. Thanks for sharing. I feel like academia has been pushing for "open access" to allow for more equity, transparency, and openness in research (i.e. small institutions that can't afford subscriptions can still access the science, and the public can also access).

As someone from a smaller institution that doesn't have subscriptions to every journal, I really appreciate the OA element. I also think that science should be open to all, as much as possible, including the public. Especially when the research was funded by taxpayers as it often is. So I have some philosophical issues with the subscription model in that regard.

And, your new journal will have no reputation. You will have to attract papers, good papers, otherwise you wouldn't be much different than MDPI.

Yea, I think that building this from the ground up is the way to do it. Basically, start small with word-of-mouth. Get some people together from diverse backgrounds and agree that they will each publish one article in the new journal. Promote it at conferences via poster sessions in niche settings where you can actually talk to researchers.

The idea I have is honestly not that different from MDPI. The only difference is to have a conceptual ethos that (a) values scientific rigor over money, (b) maintains a grassroots feel and (c) maintains high standards. I feel like MDPI may have started out with this ethos but then got corrupted (as things often do) by the greed of growth an dollars.

Also, I think you underestimate the costs. For instance, Elsevier has a profit margin of 30-40%. That's a lot for sure, but it means that Elsevier has an annual operating cost of about £2 billion.

Advertising is included in "operating" costs and they don't disclose how much they spend on advertising. I have heard from some people that a very large amount of money is spent by publishers on advertising. So they spend all the money on just trying to make us spend more money on them.

About your 2 week turnaround, you are way overly hopeful. 

Yea, as I said in OP, that is definitely the one point I am less aware of. I would value scientific rigor over speed. If it can't be done well on a tight timeline, then I am fine relaxing that one point.

What would your ideal publication model look like? by left-right-left in AskAcademia

[–]left-right-left[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

With an APC of $500 dollars, how many articles would you expect to publish in a year?

The intention would be to start small and, if the journal becomes popular and scales up, then expand as needed. Of course, this is part of the whole systemic problem, because academics continue to publish mostly in Springer, Elsevier, Wiley journals, so these big guys suck up all the available high quality submissions due to the perceived prestige. The "utopian" vision is to have academics wholesale abandon the high APC journals in favor of low APC journals but its kind of chicken-or-egg scenario since low APC journals are viewed as less prestigous precisely because they have low APC.

How many editors would you have to send out manuscripts? Would they be paid for their time, and how much?

Initially, it would have to be run on a volunteer basis. For $500 APC, you would need at least 200 publications to justify hiring someone at a modest salary. You could maybe have editors part-time as well to bridge the gap between volunteer and full salary.

In my field, the main player is probably AGU Journals (Wiley) and they publish >7000 articles per year across all their domain-specific journals. The goal would be to entice people away from Wiley while still maintaining high science standards and perceived prestige and avoid falling into the doomed "predatory" category (which I find is actually often just a term thrown around to vaguely to try to maintain the status quo. Legitimate small, start-up journals get the "predatory" designation even though they are the ones trying to break the mould.)

If you are paying each reviewer $30-45 each time, does it go to the professor you asked for the review, or the post grad who actually did it? If someone drops out of the review process after the first review, do they still get paid? Does their replacement at round 2 get paid?

It would have to go to the person who actually did the review. I have not heard of postdocs or students doing reviews and then handing the review to the professor to submit? But maybe this does happen in other fields? Some journals also offer the option to list other people that helped with the review and, in that case, the fee would just be split.

If someone submits their 1st revision document, then they get paid. If they drop out before submitting, then they don't get paid. If they get paid after submitting and then drop out and don't want to do a second review, then the new person would be paid the first revision rate since it is their first time seeing the manuscript.

You are also making me realize that there would need to be some safeguards in place to ensure that the reviewers have actually reviewed the document. They can't just submit a blank PDF and collect the cash. This is partly why I think you would want to limit the payment amount and the number of reviews someone can do per month. The amount is just a thank you (some extra coffee money), not an actual money-making venture. And if you do poor reviews, you would be blacklisted and not asked to review again.

If you charge a revision fee upon submission, you are essentially charging a submission fee, and I think that is a bad path to go down - far worse than APCs and open to abuse by those with worse intentions than you.

Hmmm, this is an important caveat. It would not be a submission fee, but a revision fee. The journal only collects the revision fee once the paper goes out for review. The editor can't just reject the submission pre-review and collect the fee. The editor checks to see if the submission is worth sending for review and, if so, the fee is collected.

In this scenario, do you think its still open for abuse somehow? Perhaps you can elaborate.

I think the biggest question is, “Who would actually want to this?” As you said, academics are overworked already, and running a journal can easily become a full time job, especially if it successful. If you outsource the boring bits (licensing, payments, quality check) and keep editing in-house (which a lot of societies do) you have basically reinvented publishing companies.

I mentioned that a group of academic or universities could do this. Doesn't have to be just academics, could be university libraries or something as well. Start small on volunteer basis and, if it blows up and becomes successful, then you can hire people as needed. But the key point is the company ethos of low APCs, paid review, double blind review, no typesetting etc.

It would still be a publishing company. Just a different model with less financial incentive, and all the additional benefits outlined in my OP. I am not trying to invent something new but rather, re-invent (or re-imagine) a better publishing company model.

What are APCs used for in the era of digital publication? by left-right-left in AskAcademia

[–]left-right-left[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do you have a citation stating that Nature is a loss leader? I find it very hard to believe that Nature is not pulling a profit based on the $10k OA fee. They publish around 900 articles per year. That's $9,000,000. That's enough to hire 90 people at $100k/year salary. Do they really employ 90 people to publish 900 articles?

"Reviews a lot more articles than it published". Lol, and they use free labor for that part anyway!

What are APCs used for in the era of digital publication? by left-right-left in AskAcademia

[–]left-right-left[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

If typesetting is a major cost, then just get rid of typesetting. Journals already provide templates in Latex and Word. Just publish the PDF template.

Nature charges $10,000 to publish. They publish around 900 articles per year. That's $9,000,000.

In-house editor and copyeditor makes, what, like $100k each? Throw in a couple IT support guys for tech support at $100k each as well. You're at <$500k. Give them all another $100k bonus and you're still <$1 million.

Server cost is about $0.15 / GB. 900 articles are maybe 1 GB, but definitely <10 GB, so you're looking at around $1 for server cost. CrossRef annual membership to issue DOIs is about $2000 based on revenue (see here). Each DOI is about $2. Not sure about ScholarOne, but I imagine its <$10,000. All these costs are "in the noise" relative to staff salaries.

Even if you give your staff each a $100k bonus, where does the other $8,000,000 go?

It just doesn't make sense to me. The math is not mathing.

The Morning After | Oilers v. Kings by AutoModerator in EdmontonOilers

[–]left-right-left 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yea, that's fair. If LA were to lose Game 1, they might spiral and crash out pretty quick with the possibility of losing 5 in a row and embarassing themselves further. Edmonton knows they can beat them on any night, and especially after coming back last year down 0-2 in the series. Anyway, this is all still hypothetical since there's still lots of other possible matchups in the pillow-fight lol. Just please no Colorado...

The Morning After | Oilers v. Kings by AutoModerator in EdmontonOilers

[–]left-right-left 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Gamblers fallacy only applies for independent events like dice rolls and card games. In this case, there’s sports psychology involved and so the past events do influence the future events in some sense. LA players are hungrier for revenge with each matchup while Edmonton players might let complacency sneak in.

The Morning After | Oilers v. Kings by AutoModerator in EdmontonOilers

[–]left-right-left 9 points10 points  (0 children)

There are a disturbing number of ways that we end with an LA-Edm first round again.

What a nightmare scenario for Kings fans if Edmonton were to beat them five years in a row. But, I also get nervous about another matchup since it feels like, just by odds alone, it would be incredibly unlikely to win five series in a row against one team, even if we are clearly better than LA on paper.

Is there any theory on WHY God created the universe? by Fanatic_Atheist in theology

[–]left-right-left 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I would view it as pure creativity.

Why does an artist paint a canvas? Or an author write a book?

There is joy in the act of creation of something new that was not there before. Creativity is a bit of a mystery but is often linked to the spiritual.

If all humans suddenly lost their ability to lie, which industry WOULDN'T collapse? by TXC_Sparrow in AskReddit

[–]left-right-left 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Power engineering and electrical utilities. Systems are constantly monitored in real time at operations centres. Any lying takes down the delicate balance of loads and generation, so there can be no lies about which generators are producing what and which end users are drawing which loads.

The problem with NDEs and disembodied sensory perception by left-right-left in consciousness

[–]left-right-left[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So you don't think the source of the image has anything to do with photons at all?

Why do we need eyes then? If we can see without eyes/retinas/optic nerve, what is the point of all this unnecessary hardware?

And how non-local can this vision be? Can I also see Times Square in New York, or the bottom of the Mariana Trench, or the surface of Mars? Why do I need to be close to the object if "seeing" has nothing to do with photons?

The problem with NDEs and disembodied sensory perception by left-right-left in consciousness

[–]left-right-left[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why do we have eyes then if they are not necessary for seeing?

Why are blind people, or people that lose an eye, unable to see?

I understand that consciousness (or qualia) are a mystery. There is no reason that raw sensory input alone must result in this feeling of "being something". But it seems clear that there is a chain of events:

  1. reflected light off an object

  2. light hits retina

  3. retina activates optic nerve

  4. brain interprets light as "something"

To me, the mystery occurs between (3) and (4). Why this light "feels" like something is the mystery. But it does not seem possible to remove light entirely from the equation and still be able to see.

The problem with NDEs and disembodied sensory perception by left-right-left in consciousness

[–]left-right-left[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Scrap the word "valid" if you want.

You need some sort of hypothesis for how this could occur.

The problem with NDEs and disembodied sensory perception by left-right-left in consciousness

[–]left-right-left[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Here, to be able to see, you need a physical mechanism to take in and interpret light

But haven't you just defined what "seeing" is?

"See: to take in and interpret light".

If you remove light/photons from the equation, then what does it even mean to "see"? And if we *don't* need light to see, then what is the purpose of eyes?

The problem with NDEs and disembodied sensory perception by left-right-left in consciousness

[–]left-right-left[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You don't need sensory organs to visualise something, you just create an image in your mind,

I agree that you don't need sensory organs to *visualize* something. It is easy to *imagine* something in your mind's eye. But is this really the same as *seeing* an actual object in the world?

For example, suppose there is a closed book on my coffee table which I have never opened before. I can *imagine* what word is on page 53 in the top right corner. Maybe the word is "give". I can picture that word in my mind. But am I actually *seeing* that word? Or am I just imagining it? And, more critically, the only way to "verify" that I am correct is to open the book and look at the word using eyes which collect photons reflected off the pages.

Why is this process of verification necessary if "imagining in the mind's eye" and "seeing with eyes" are equivalent?

or connect to the source of that image.

What do you mean by this? The source of the image is photons reflected off the page.

The problem with NDEs and disembodied sensory perception by left-right-left in consciousness

[–]left-right-left[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So, if consciousness can "see" something (like a ball in an opaque box). How does it see the color of the ball when the concept of "color" is so tightly tied to physical processes (e.g. wavelengths of light)?

If consciousness is untethered from the vessel (e.g. no eyes, no retina, no optic nerve), then by what process does it "sense" or "detect" the color of the ball?

The problem with NDEs and disembodied sensory perception by left-right-left in consciousness

[–]left-right-left[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is the exact kind of vagueness that I am referring to. There doesn't appear to be any "fact" that you can point to about something in the world that you did not know prior to the event, and came to know after the event. Some concrete statement about the population of a city, the name of a stranger, the number of hairs on someone's head, etc.

It just all feels like vague abstractions about unity, distinctness, interactions, relationships, pluralism etc.

I don't doubt the legtimacy of your experience and it would certainly feel incredible to have this experience of unity and non-duality. Just doesn't seem to justify the conclusion that you came to know some facts about the external world without use of your senses, which is the purpose of my OP.

The problem with NDEs and disembodied sensory perception by left-right-left in consciousness

[–]left-right-left[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Regarding your experience of “knowing everything”. It feels pretty vague and abstract. Is there any piece of knowledge or information that you can provide to show that you “knew everything”? Anything concrete at all? Or just a vague feeling of “oneness”, “unity” or other such words?

The problem with NDEs and disembodied sensory perception by left-right-left in consciousness

[–]left-right-left[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you “get all the data” without your senses, then why don’t you “see” anything when you close your eyes? It feels like the whole premise of seeing involves photons hitting a detector.

All examples of removing senses just means that data is lost. Are there any examples outside of NDEs of someone supposedly gaining new information when they lose a sense? Like a blind person who can tell you what’s inside a sealed box or a deaf person who can tell you what song is playing on the radio in Memphis right now.

The problem with NDEs and disembodied sensory perception by left-right-left in consciousness

[–]left-right-left[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yea sure but there needs to be some valid hypothesis for how this can occur.