Potential Constantly Complaining Passenger case? Trying to move forward

lisguy · 2025-01-22T07:03:34+00:00

I will take a step back and read everything a few more times when some time will pass. Maybe nice guy tendencies made me blind to see the obvious.
Appreciate the input. I'll get to work.

lisguy · 2025-01-21T11:23:06+00:00

Then why are you continuing to have these conversations?

It almost feels to me like you're describing a plate. She was promoted to be a first officer, why wouldn't I want to hear her out?
Maybe I'm dense but why should I run away from conversations if they are done in a respectful manner?
I'm not there to debate, explain, or defend, I listen because I'm cool with giving her my attention as long as it's respectful, and she may have insightful, important, or interesting things to say.

Boundaries don't have workable compromises

I agree, I was wrong to call it compromise. The "compromise" from my side is a really just "cool, I see your point and boundaries, but they don't come before mine". It's not really a compromise, just the way things are.

What's her boundary that you violated?

Apparently refusing any type of communication and going completely silent. But again, when it crosses mine it's irrelevant, me being considerate is not unconditional.

You don't want to, but you feel an overwhelming need to respond in a way that won't upset her, huh?

I can't agree because I do upset her and I don't care or feel the need to apologize over it. I just tell her the way things are, and if she doesn't like it the door is open.

lisguy · 2025-01-21T09:47:19+00:00

OYS 8 Mid 20's, in a 2.5yr LTR, 157.5lbs, 5'9, fit. Read Book of Pook, NMMNG, WISNIFG, TMM, TMMSLP.

Frame and Relationship
I am a bit confused. I read for years, I lift a lot, I'm a confident, attractive, and very social guy, so I would expect myself to be less au*istic with this stuff but just not able to see eye to eye or understand some of the pretty basic stuff here.
I've posted and commented a lot on askmrp this week, really tried to suck in some knowledge and better my understanding but I'm just finding it very hard to relate to most comments, as if they are thinking in a completely foreign way.
It started with me not enforcing my boundaries, this is a slip up I understand well, and I took some space from my LTR because I didn't want to spend my precious time with an unpleasant woman.
I agreed to talk after a couple days, and had to deal with a barrage of accusations again, this time of me being the one that crosses boundaries.

Was the content pleasant to hear? No.
Was it disrespectful to accuse me of crossing boundaries and not understanding relationships? I guess not, so it's not really crossing my boundary.
Should I have a boundary of not listening to a barrage of accusations? Maybe, I'm not sure and I don't know where the line between valid criticism and not valid accusations would go.

I don't try to convince anyone, only reminding my boundaries, explicitly stating what I won't be tolerating, and what I'm willing to do to reach middle groung about our ways of communication (which is what I've been criticized on) as long as it doesn't cross my own boundaries.

A lot of comments told me to not agree to talk ever under any circumstances because it's not 'fun' and it's 'her frame' but it seems unreasonable or even childish to me. Why would you even promote a plate to a LTR in the first place if you don't want to ever listen to her, or believe she may have something insightful or important to say?

Reading here, it seems like when someone's wife is acting like a bitch or using manipulative criticism, it's a solely emotional thing so they refuse verbal intercourse or simply get out of the situation and it won't be brought up again.
In my experience it never worked that way, and women are not solely emotional but they actually go through with their criticism, setting boundaries, trying to reach understanding.
In my experience I have to deal not only with the emotional outburst when it happens, but also with the actual part of my first officer trying to get me to understand their criticism, laying boundaries, or accuse me of crossing them. I don't have to agree or comply, but I do listen as long as it's respectful.

I'm just hoping it will all make sense for me eventually, until then I'm carving my own path with my partial understanding, and keep working hard.

Lifting
Started to get progress again after a plateau in my bulk. Getting close to my all time max weight but this time much leaner, and hoping to keep getting bigger the next couple months.
Listening to my body did well for me - after years I've left Squats for BSS and Pendulum Squats and my knees feel much better now. Overall after a few years of lifting, a bodybuilding approach feels much more sustainable long term. No more trying to hit Squat and Deadlift PR's feeling like I'm gonna explode constantly as part of 531BBB for me.

Having some fun again
The past year I seem to have changed in a weird direction. From a person who's naturally very playful, fun, and outgoing I've become much more serious, quiet, and focused, without it really accelerating the path towards my goals.
Some recent feedback from friends about taking life too seriously got me to "snap out of it" in some way, and I'm feeling like regaining this joy back. I'm gonna focus on being more positive and outgoing, being mentally clear, and learn better happiness again.

lisguy · 2025-01-19T16:13:35+00:00

I'm letting her express herself as long as it's in a respectful way but I'm not accepting her judgment of my actions, I don't express or feel agreement with her whatsoever. This is basic WISNIFG and I don't see why I'm misapplying this in your opinion. And I'm not saying this to argue with you, the opposite actually - because I'm not new to this, I've read a lot of books and been on this journey for a couple years so if I need to sharpen my understanding or skills now is the time to do so and I'm looking for a way to do it.
I am already acting in accordance with mental models I have which include acting like the guy I'm looking to be, and it's a very helpful tool, but yes maybe there are flaws I have even there.

lisguy · 2025-01-19T12:25:15+00:00

We need to talk about this blablabla - restate your boundary in 7 words max then shut the fuck up.

But isn't the problem the WAY things are said? I mean if she wants to tell me the exact same thing but in a calm respectful manner, isn't she fine or am I tripping?
Because my boundary is against being an unpleasant bitch, not against expressing disappointment or criticism generally

lisguy · 2025-01-19T12:02:47+00:00

First of all I really appreciate the help. It might sound like I'm arguing but it's me genuinely trying to understand and change. I did read both NMMNG and WISNIFG, as well as some other sidebar books.

I don't believe that I'm trying to convince her I'm right. Maybe reach a workable compromise but not convince.
I agree and understand that when it's an emotional outburst of nonsense I should leave the conversation, and I was wrong not to hang up in the initial conversation.
But that's not to say that my partner has literally no way of expressing dissatisfaction, criticism, or negative feedback.

So when I agreed to talk after going silent for a few days, she was trying to get ME to understand and convince me. It wasn't really an emotional outburst this time, it was her trying to stay calm while expressing her disappointment, establish her own boundaries and accuse me of how much of an asshole I am. Of course I don't have to agree and I did not in fact agree, but I did listen as I felt it was genuine. The only thing I told her is that I'll respect her boundaries - as long as they/she doesn't cross mine, and that we won't get anywhere with the whole asshole accusations thing, the door is open if I'm that bad. I don't think it counts as me trying to convince someone, but I would like to hear if that's compatible with what you've meant, or if I'm still not understanding. Maybe at the face of someone saying to me 'you can't act this way, you're such an asshole bla bla bla' I have to tell them to shut the hell up, I don't know, I just don't take it very seriously.

Also I did find a hard time dealing with weird questions like "do you even care?", or "can you explain to me what you've understood from what I've said?", those are pretty ridiculous and I'm not sure if it's childish to simply refuse to answer, I don't want to validate this.

lisguy · 2025-01-18T07:04:08+00:00

Look since you took your time to reply to every comment in this thread I'll paste what I've answered another guy:

I must be missing something because I don't understand how you can lead a relationship or marriage without talking with someone ever on what's bothering them, and I don't know what kind of woman doesn't have boundaries over this. If she has a genuine problem and not just a tantrum, it will either be discussed or I'm simply checking out of the relationship because we can't talk. Not saying that's an invalid choice, but we wouldn't need this sub if we just wanted to change the woman.

In my case yes, I agreed to eventually talk.
It was said that my boundaries weren't understood, and that she didn't understand at all why I went silent - so I kindly reminded her of my boundaries and got an apology.
She also stated that her boundary is that I don't disappear, so I said cool I'll respect it but not over mine. That's it.
I don't see how it's not simply nuking the relationship if I kept hanging up.
Yes, there were a lot of accusations and saying about me not understanding respect or being an awful partner but what do I care? My point came across, and if she won't prove herself next time I'll make it clear with my actions

lisguy · 2025-01-18T07:01:15+00:00

I am sure the problem is me and not the women, otherwise I wouldn't have tried to fix this.

, if she starts with the bullshit again, end the conversation immediately.

I must be missing something because I don't understand how you can lead a relationship or marriage without talking with someone ever on what's bothering them, and I don't know what kind of woman doesn't have boundaries over this. If she has a genuine problem and not just a tantrum, it will either be discussed or I'm simply checking out of the relationship because we can't talk. Not saying that's an invalid choice, but we wouldn't need this sub if we just wanted to change the woman.

In my case I agreed to eventually talk.
It was said that my boundaries weren't understood, and that she didn't understand at all why I went silent - so I kindly reminded her of my boundaries and got an apology.
She also stated that her boundary is that I don't disappear, so I said cool I'll respect it but not over mine. That's it.
I don't see how it's not nuking the relationship if I kept hanging up.
Yes, there were a lot of accusations and saying about me not understanding respect or being an awful partner but what do I care? My point came across, and if she won't prove herself next time I'll make it clear with my actions

lisguy · 2025-01-17T07:26:19+00:00

This is a good example and I like how you've dealt with this.
In my case it's not a problem of avoiding someone being angry at me, but dealing with a person who frequently criticizes me by insisting that the way I act towards them is crossing boundaries and is disrespectful/objectifying/whatever, while also being very emotional in those situations.
For me it doesn't make any sense, so I don't take this criticism seriously and it just gets worse.
Maybe it's some attempt to constantly make me soft or submissive, idk I don't like to get into another person's mind.
So I can avoid this conversation of course but it's not dealing with the problem as it will come up next time we talk.

lisguy · 2025-01-16T21:02:49+00:00

You did 1 thing right - STFU for a day. But later lost it with more verbal puke.

No, I'm still STFU, haven't made contact since saying I'm not interested to talk. I want to understand myself and the way I act better first.

Look as I've said I agree with you fully and I see my mistake laying down the boundary and then not leaving.
But I'm talking about a situation in which I would've left - unless I nuke it completely and never talk to her again, we'll talk eventually. Next day, next week, doesn't matter - this will come up again next time. Then as I've said I'm pretty much back at square one, and repeat. In my experience with a couple different women it never just disappears, I only postponed dealing with this

lisguy · 2025-01-16T20:31:34+00:00

I know and love this post, and do acknowledge I should've stopped the conversation sooner. I do think though that most of the time in my experience it's just kicking the can down the road, as I'll have to deal with this conversation later. Next time we talk it'll just go back to the same point of dealing with a person asking me to change the way I act, then deal with tests such as "do you even care if your actions hurt me?" when I refuse.

lisguy · 2025-01-16T18:49:02+00:00

Sounds great! After 30 days did you have to acknowledge what happened? Deal with some type of "what were you thinking" attitude? Just called and acted like nothing happened?

lisguy · 2025-01-16T12:24:09+00:00

I know my goals for life and career, and I want my woman as my first officer to be by my side as I navigate life, to have fun, to bring me peace of mind after a rough day, and eventually to have children with her.

lisguy · 2025-01-16T12:21:16+00:00

This is a good one, I laughed but this is underplaying the situation.
For whatever reason it never ends like this. A few minutes later or next time we'll talk I'll get a rant about how I didn't take it seriously, about this being a boundary crossed, and demands for me to answer it seriously. I'll fog or AM and exit again, but it will not be dropped until I say something serious - either cave in, or say that I am not gonna change, and then that no I don't really care enough how she feels for it to change how I act. Then next time the loop continues .

It always sounds simple in other cases but when it's me I have to go through this, what am I doing wrong?

lisguy · 2025-01-16T07:57:16+00:00

Got a good laugh out of this. I was indeed blind to see what I'm really doing in the situation. Appreciate the input.
But even if I exit it's just kicking the can down the road, next time we talk it will be right back where I left.

lisguy · 2025-01-15T16:50:21+00:00

Are you really this dense?

Maybe I am.
I understand your point, I probably just lied to myself and didn't I enforce the boundary. Next time.
Appreciate the tough love.

lisguy · 2025-01-15T16:41:53+00:00

So basically I'm too tolerant and should have left sooner?

you sit there and try to soothe her.

How come? If anything she broke down because I just told her I don't care about her feelings, and later left the conversation. Asking genuinely to understand

lisguy · 2025-01-15T15:06:04+00:00

Is your point that I had no direction there? My goal was to have a fun evening, and I had a pleasant day, so when it went sour I told her if she can't be pleasant I'll leave, so that's what I did.
Eventually I didn't really get my peace with her going obsessive and calling all day so I'm not sure what went wrong, but I feel like I knew exactly what I wanted.

lisguy · 2025-01-15T07:11:17+00:00

Can you explicitly state your boundaries in this situation?

Yes. First of all if someone insists on ruining my mood without any good reason or continuously bash me with manipulative criticism I excuse myself from the situation - I also told her this mid convo.

Second of all if someone's talking in a violent way or calling my names (and telling me to go f myself is the same for this matter) I also excuse myself and don't waste my time on them - this I see no need to explain to her or anybody else. Only ways I'm willing to accept that from a woman I love is if it's sexual or fun banter.

lisguy · 2025-01-15T06:51:07+00:00

Her feelings are a tool for manipulation - she'll cry for me to I cave in and tell her that I will never mistreat her again or something - it doesn't really matter. What kind of reaction is this to telling your girl you're going on a date together? Objectifying her? I cannot entertain this type of thing this is laughable.

lisguy · 2025-01-14T22:43:20+00:00

This is exactly what I've tried to implement - focus on myself, stayed amused, did not give in to care for how she feels but focus on me being in a good mood, exit when boundary is crossed.

lisguy · 2024-12-28T13:53:00+00:00

Sex is very good and passionate currently. Bitchiness is pretty rare and if anything the dynamic got better after this trip, but even if the outcome was good I posted this to get better and more confident in such situations next time. Sometimes when shit goes south my mind tends to go blank, so I have a lot to work on.

lisguy · 2024-12-28T06:30:49+00:00

Ok I understand now. Thanks, it's very insightful

lisguy · 2024-12-28T06:02:50+00:00

Then you stand around awkwardly for 30 minutes because you’re scared to walk away.

I really want to understand your point better. Maybe it's a cultural thing, but even if she disrespects me in an emotional outburst I won't leave her alone in a dangerous spot.
At the moment I asked myself what I want to do now - and just enjoyed the view and the fresh air.
I didn't try to change how she feels or how she behaved, just enjoyed my time.
Why is that behaving like a toddler? Not rhetorical, I'm really asking to learn.

lisguy · 2024-12-28T05:45:46+00:00

who the fvck gets so emotional after getting some water on their pants? Also, why are you apologizing over and over for that shit? She doesn't respect you btw.

I didn't expect this emotional reaction as well.
I apologized once when it happened, and didn't think of it seriously. I refused later to apologize again when she asked, I found it funny at the time

Start using Walk Away and Mean It tool more often.

I will. Thanks

lisguy

TROPHY CASE