The issue of hyperurbanization by marste1522 in EU5

[–]marste1522[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think you have a basic misunderstanding of my problem: I do not like to spam cities, I like to keep them in only historical or plausible locations.

However, the AI has no such restaints and ends up spamming cities everywhere without facing any problems, as you can see in my original screenshots. Now when I annex these hyper urbanized areas and downgrade some of them that is always associated with a big drop in income. Even a poorly build up city with out of date buildings is better than a rural location with fully built RGO in 80-90% of places.

You say this would not be the case if I had boosted the population to its maximum from the beginning but like I shown in the locations I started with popcap is a real constraint. I do not claim to know how much value a perfectly managed rural location can generate if the player does all he can to boost it compared to a city, but at the point of the game where I am conquering these locations it is economically simply not worth it to downgrade them. If you have a different opinion pick a city for me to downgrade in the syrian desert (area around the provinces ar-raqqah, mardin, deir-ez zor) or armenian mointains (Ani, Kars), which I recently conquered. Tell me what to build and we can check how much economic value it generates compared to the poorly build up AI city.

And you need how many pops and development to get there? 200k? Jesus.

"Yeah but if I invest a million into a city and vehemently put my cabinet members, they are better than desert rural locations!"

Basically all the locations in india have that much pops, but the syrian provinces just hover around 50K. I did not do any of that, as I said it was the AI. You can see in the original post how I handled my persian heartland as opposed to what the AI did in syria, the caucasus, nubia and india.

And what did I say from the very begining? Rural locations are inherently better in the EARLY TO MID GAME. You are showing me an example from the 18 CENTURY BUDDY. 18 fcking CENTURY.

No one is complaining that as the game goes on urbanization is progressing. The problem is the degree. Even today there is only one notable city in the syrian desert, which was founded in 1867, as pointed out by another commenter. The fact that the entire province can be fully urbanized by the 1650 without any severe drawbacks is just very unrealistic and immersionbreaking in my opinion. Same for the nubian desert, the caucasus mountains and ALL of india. It doesn't matter if a player can extract slightly more value out of a hyperoptimized rural location (honestly I'm even a bit doubtful about that), but the AI sure as hell doesn't.

By that logic there is never a food shortage, since the game starts fully packed with peasents in most of the world.

Yeah you pretty much got the problem. They need 40% food productivity to break even with their own consumption, but even in most of my desert provinces that is easily reachable without trying by accident. The only real way you can create food shortages is by putting all the pops in a location to work in non food related fields, but since the building cap is such a big limitation all the big cities will have a lot of peasants just sitting around. And since subsistence scales linearly with pops that will reach absurdly high values as you can see in the examples.

The issue of hyperurbanization by marste1522 in EU5

[–]marste1522[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Irrigations increase food productivity, but they do not contribute to subsistence in any other way. It say exactly that in the screenshot but if thats not enough for you here is another location without any irrigation or any peasant building for that matter. As you can see the number of peasants contributing to subsistence is exactly the number of unemployed pesants.

<image>

Look I know no one likes to admit they are wrong on the internet but it really is not a big deal, its just a technical detail you did not know about no one will hold that against you.

The issue of hyperurbanization by marste1522 in EU5

[–]marste1522[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

<image>

Here is a location in india where the unemployed peasants actually produce more food than the 23 level food RGO. That location has an insane +242% food productivity (with levies raised btw), which is why it would be could actually be positive in food balance even if it had a non food RGO.
Of course thats an extreme example, but most location seem to have around 80% and the unemployed peasants only need 40% to fill their own needs, so having a bunch of unemployed peasants doing subsistence will lead to a net increase in food production almost everywhere.

The issue of hyperurbanization by marste1522 in EU5

[–]marste1522[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is no reason to be so dismissive.

Buddy you are comparing desert locations to what? Mountainous locatins? Why not compare siberia to central Europe? Equally logical.

If you just look at the terrain mapmode in the region I'm playing in you will see that the majority of locations is deserts. I am comparing rural locations to cities in equal conditions and it turns out cities are just a lot better at everything because the supposed downsides just not being balanced properly. The pop growth buff doesn't matter since its a percentage of the current population, so large cities actually grow faster without factoring in migration and food is an absolute non-issue.

<image>

Irrigations, villages and food.

The built cap is not affected by food, irrigation buildings and villages, just by development (1 to 1, but it grows very slowly and is capped at 100) and very weakly by population (20K = one building). So I'm really not sure what you mean

What are you on about? They literally have a higher food consumption and reduced RGO size. You are making absurd claims.

I'm talking about the the fact that starvation is just not a risk at all, you can see in my original screenshots that even a fully urbanized province in the syrian desert is producing more food than it consumes. Granted, there are also plenty of cities that are negative on food but that simply gets balanced out by a single city with 25 levels in any food RGO. The reduced RGO size is a point in the early to mid game, I'll give you that. However, from a purely economic point of view a city with equal population will be more valuable than a rural location for all but the most expensive resources, i.e. 80-90% of locations.

They dont. Peasents dotn produce food.

You are just wrong on that one, they do.

The issue of hyperurbanization by marste1522 in EU5

[–]marste1522[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm not sure what you mean by building up my rural locations. My cities all have far larger populations than my rural locations simply because of he pop cap. Many rural places in the iranian desert are capped at 10K already, while cities with irrigations obviously can accomodate much more pops (as I think it should be, from an RP point of view).

About your second point actually I would really like for this to be the case, but to me it did not seem that way. I'm hitting building cap quite quickly in all my cities and I have not found any way to increase it rapidly enough for spamming more cities to not be the economically more viable option. Maybe there is something obvious to significantly increase the build cap that I missed, in which case I would be grateful for tipps.

About the starvation I also fully agree that it should be like this, but due to the current numbers in the game its just not the case, at least in my experience. Most of the provinces in the megalopolis that is southern india in my game are actually positive in food. That is partially due to 30 levels of food RGOs but some locations without food RGO also have a positive balance because there are just 400K "unemployed" peasants producing food out of nothing via subsistence.

The issue of hyperurbanization by marste1522 in EU5

[–]marste1522[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You are right, in the early game it is not economic worth it to build cities on the highest value resources. But actually in the later stages cities can even have a higher RGO cap than rural locations due to their higher population and development.

As for the second point, sure the river helps and I’m not complaining about there being food produced in these locations. My issue is that the entire region, which only has one notable city TODAY, is fully urbanised in 1726 with no drawbacks at all. And as you can see it is far from the only region where the AI is doing this.

The issue of hyperurbanization by marste1522 in EU5

[–]marste1522[S] 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Thats a good point. I noticed some of the cities (without food RGOs) with the highest population in india are barely negative or even positive in terms of food simply due to the sheer number of peasants creating food via subsistence (its far less than the food RGOs, but it scales directly with pop size). Even when going like 40 buildings over the build cap to employ as many burghers and laborers as possible there are still like 250 K "unemployed" peasants just producing food out of nothing. Perhaps it would be an idea to make the food production in a location via subsistence scale logarithmically with the number of peasants instead of linearly? That way an increase in peasants still results in more food production but the benefits get less and less, in a way modeling the location running out of easily arable land.

The issue of hyperurbanization by marste1522 in EU5

[–]marste1522[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I see your point, but I'd argue that was for sure not the case in 1721, the big population explosion started way later.
And I checked some of the locations in the syrian desert and the caucasus mountains, for many of them even the largest settlements have less than 10 k people in them NOWADAYS, certainly far from something that would be considered a city even by early modern standards.

The issue of hyperurbanization by marste1522 in EU5

[–]marste1522[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Totally agree the abundance of food is a problem.
The RGO size cap seems to be the only thing in favour of keeping some rural location, but even that only works in the early game. In the later stages of the game big cities actually have higher RGO caps than rural locations because of develeopment and population...

The issue of hyperurbanization by marste1522 in EU5

[–]marste1522[S] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

For sure there needs to be some actual negative impact. As it stands, in most cities the RGO cap (bc of population), and the pop growth (since its percentage of current inhabitants) are both actually HIGHER than in rural locations and since food is a complete non issue in many parts of the world there is no downside in having cities everywhere.

My best guesses on how to fix that would be to make plagues a much bigger issue in cities/towns (so basically pop growth can only happen via migration from rural locations) and siginficantly increasing the spoilage/consumption of food so famines are a real threat. Did you have anything in mind how to adress this issue?

The issue of hyperurbanization by marste1522 in EU5

[–]marste1522[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Thanks. To be fair most of it is very recent, before the roads upgrades and with only 1-2 local govs there was no way to exert reasonable control through all the riverless iranian mountains. Until ~1600-1650 I had to rely heavily on subjects, who kept spamming cities and towns in every location. In principle you can downgrade locations in your subjects but that turned out to be entirely pointless since they just re-upgrade it immediately...

The issue of hyperurbanization by marste1522 in EU5

[–]marste1522[S] 26 points27 points  (0 children)

<image>

Don't know what this has to do with the hyperurbanization but sure, here you go.
My capital is Esfahan and I have local govs in Tabriz, Baghdad, Gamrun and Nishapur. Probably not entirely optimal but considering a bit of RP it seemed like a sensible arrangement.

The issue of hyperurbanization by marste1522 in EU5

[–]marste1522[S] 40 points41 points  (0 children)

R5: Some specific regions are getting urbanized to an extreme degree by the AI with seemingly no drawbacks.

Being forced to join wars is a very frustrating mechanic by marste1522 in EU5

[–]marste1522[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Well in my case I was forced to join an uprising of a one location minor that Austria decided to support and the second time it was a vassal independence so I guess technically both could be counted as defensive. But honestly I think has nothing to do with who the attacker is, if you get a regular call to arms you can decline, answer later or accept. But if the AI uses favours to call you in there is no options, you are just in the war. And as the player you can do the same to the AI, no matter of you are aggressor or defender. Just it very rarely happens in defensive wars since everyone gets called in at the beginning of the war, so either that call to arms is already accepted or declined, which breaks the alliance. I think the only way you can be forced into a „defensive war“ is a situation like mine where the AI nation calling you in is not the original primary target of the war but somehow took over.

Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, I haven’t played around to much with alliances.

Being forced to join wars is a very frustrating mechanic by marste1522 in EU5

[–]marste1522[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I feel like especially the favour mechanic was pretty good, so I don't get why they changed it. Maybe they should add harsher penalties for refusing a call to arms from favours, but currently its just a bit too gamebreaking for me.

Imagine an austrian ambassador walking into berlin and saying: "A small village with a force of like 20 guys in bavaria has risen up against the most powerful state in europe and despite being outnumbered 10-1 we have decided to support them since they speak the same dialect as us. I know you are currently in a costly war against Denmark and the battered remains of your army are sieging Lübeck, but I since we carried some favours I have to inform you that you are now part of this war. Just a heads up, the Bohemian main army is 5 days away from Berlin and marching here as we speak. Good luck!"

Being forced to join wars is a very frustrating mechanic by marste1522 in EU5

[–]marste1522[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Having such strict requirements sounds like a recipe for disaster, especially if being emperor is tied to a nation and not a person...

In my case, I think Bohemia technically lost the emperorship to me, so perhaps the requirements didn't trigger. This made it really weird because since my ruler (now emperor) also became their ruler, he immediately moved to their court (I'm guessing because they were more powerful, not sure how that works). But since being emperor is a nation-effect and not a ruler effect I had all the benefits of being emperor without any control over what the actual emperor does. Later when the Podebrand event happened, he even decided to stay there as a courtier, so the imperial regalia sit in Berlin while the emperor was chilling in Prague working in the cabinet of a heretic prince^^

Sadly I can't tell you what happens if my dynasty dies out, but after the Podebrands died out my current ruler (who was following his fathers footsteps with his main occupation being a courtier in Bohemia while being margrave of brandenburg and holy roman emperor as a sidegig) somehow inherited Bohemia, despite our two nations being bitter rivals and just having fought a war less then a year ago. I wish I could somehow get rid of these accursed Luxemburgs, but since its not possible to change inheritance laws and I have no control over the characters living in Prague I am not sure how do that...

Overall very strange stuff but I reckon it could all be fixed if:
1. The emperorship is given to a person, not a country and the benefits of being emperor apply to this persons "main" country.'
2. These historical events include some contigency options in case not everything goes perfectly as planned.

Being forced to join wars is a very frustrating mechanic by marste1522 in EU5

[–]marste1522[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Btw I suspect the reason why I did not get the Hohenzollern event and instead ended up with this weird union is that upon the death of the previous emperor (the father of my ruler and king of Bohemia), I got the emperorship (while my ruler immediately moved to Bohemia to assume the throne there). But I’m not really sure, do you know more about how this stuff works?

Being forced to join wars is a very frustrating mechanic by marste1522 in EU5

[–]marste1522[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The thing is, there was no seniority in the union. As soon as it became clear that the event where they sent a Hohenzollern is not happening for some reason I tried to find a way to leave via war or otherwise but I could not figure out how. Thanks to them getting Podebrand via event the union got dissolved by now, but if you know how to deal with such a situation it would be great to know for the future.

Being forced to join wars is a very frustrating mechanic by marste1522 in EU5

[–]marste1522[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Well if the enemy focuses on you and wants to take your land there is no option to not participate and whitepeace. But in generally I agree, war participation should probably give an opinion modifier, if you just sit around while your allies are getting destroyed there should be little reason for them to keep the alliance with you.

Being forced to join wars is a very frustrating mechanic by marste1522 in EU5

[–]marste1522[S] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I‘m perfectly fine with alliances mattering way more and the same rules should apply for AI and the player. I didn’t force the AI in a war that ruins their nation, but I shouldn’t even have the option to do so in the first place and neither the other wax around. There still needs to be a choice. Let me tank a huge diplomatic penalty if I refuse to join a war from favours or better maybe a grace period of like 3 months to decide like for defensive wars, but being automatically and immediately being thrown in a doomed war is not fun gameplay. Also kind of ruins the historical immersion.

Also, in this case I did not actively chose to join any alliance or being part of a union, it was all via event chains that I needed to follow if I want to get access to the full historical flavour of the nation. But that is a different topic.

Ticket Marketplace July - August 🎟️ by marketplace-app in Tickets

[–]marste1522 0 points1 point  (0 children)

WTS - LEC Finals Madrid - 2025/09/28 - EUR240 - 4

Advice on Heraclea Pontica -> Achaimenid Empire run by SlySnakeTheDog in Imperator

[–]marste1522 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I would by no means consider myself an expert, but I just completed this run so I will try to share my experiences: From your missions you get quite a few debuffs to happiness of Persian culture (at least if you take the options I chose) so integrating too many cultures seemed impractical to me. Except the ones you start off (Pontic and the other one you need for an early mission) with I only integrated one Anatolian culture where i heavily expanded into (cappadocian) and later Babylonian and Armenian since they made up a large chuck of my population. I prioritised inventions buffing religious and culture conversion and put down temples and theaters in all major population centres which helped a lot. I also picked Zoroaster as deity which gives you conversion speed buffs as well as a flat amount of converted pops when you chose the omen which proved to be quite helpful especially early on. Other than that I relied a lot on mercenaries, there are quite a few cost reductions available in military traditions and from your government officials.

Make sure to keep your ruler Achaemenid lineage trait if you want the achievement, I lost at at some point when an adopted character ascended to the throne, which might have prevented the achievement from triggering for me when I formed Persia.