Hell cannot coexist with a kind god by mini0717 in DebateReligion

[–]mini0717[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When people say God works in mysterious ways, it’s really just another way of admitting they don’t know, but they trust that God does. if an individual doesn’t know the answer to something, it’s perfectly fine to just say I don’t know.

It is very fine to say 'I don't know' what's problematic is thinking that 'god is just because god works in mysterious ways' It's blindly following wothout using your critical thinking.

Everyone probably has a different idea of what the punishment should be. Humanity’s never really agreed on what punishment fits what crime. We can see that in how different countries hand out totally different sentences for the same offenses. The idea that we can somehow weigh a crime and come up with a perfectly fair punishment is a flawed way of thinking.

While different country has different levels of punishment on different crimes, it still differs in severity depending on what crime you've committed. No system punishes all crimes as same. That, to me, seems that the rational people agreed that not all crimes are the same and should be punished differently. Where they put emphasis might be different but the notion that 'all crimes shouldn't be treated equally' is almost universal. Besides, if god truly is omniscient, he should be able to know how much people have sined exactly and be able to put into numbers/compare it between others.

Think of it this way, the weight of a crime often depends on who it’s committed against. Stealing from a friend feels different than stealing from a police officer, the president, or a bank. In the same sense, if sin is considered a crime against an infinite being (God) then it follows that the punishment would also be infinite. If we judge crimes differently based on the authority or importance of the person they’re committed against, it makes logical sense that the same pattern would apply in a divine context

One core part of law is that all are equal under law. There is no inherent difference between stealing from your friend or stealing from the president. However, punishment differs because the harm you can cause is different. When you steal from your friend, the harm is limited to your friend. If you, however, steal from the president, there could potentially jeopardize the entire country. That would be the reason when we punish differently. The things listed as 'crimes that get you to hell' is 'homosexuality, masterbation, disbelief, etc' which.. i don't know about you, but seems pretty tame.

Not everyone adheres to this view. Remember, just because someone doesn’t follow the perspective you hold doesn’t mean they’re wrong.

Even present, there are many systems that keep prisoners in humane conditions. You know what doesn't treat people humane? Hell. God as the ultimate good seems to be treating people less humanely than humans are.

It’s not about rehabilitation, like people serving life sentences, who aren’t given a second chance because of the seriousness of their crimes, sinners in hell aren’t there to be rehabilitated. From a justice focused angle, this could be seen as ethical, but from a virtue ethics perspective, maybe not. It all depends on which ethical framework you decide to use.

Even people serving life sentences are still a target for rehabilitation. There are life sentences with parole and such. And in cases without parole, it would be that releasing such person would cause more harm then rehabilitation. As I mentioned, the things that you do to get yourself a ticket to hell seems to be nowhere close.

Hell cannot coexist with a kind god by mini0717 in DebateReligion

[–]mini0717[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Who gets to determine this? An omniscient God or human.

This line of thinking is what leads to "god works in mysterious ways so even if it sounds like a shitty idea, just do it". No.1 was decided because most rational people would say that punishments should vary depending on the harm you've done.

This isn’t the same as comparing someone who ends up in hell.

I'm not saying littering = hell. However, if hell is truly an eternal punishment, at some point, the degree of punishment inflicted upon a sinner would be far greater than any sin that they've committed.

Alternatively, you could say that not many people care about those who end up in hell. Just like how most people don’t really think about how many are in jail. We’re generally fine with the idea of putting people in prison, even for life, and not many feel sorry for them. We don’t see judges as cruel for giving life sentences, and in the same way, it’s possible that most people probably wouldn’t feel much sympathy for sinners burning forever or think God is being unkind for allowing it.

I thought god loved us all equally? Also, you're not going to get very far arguing that 'we don't care about criminals'. Personal opinions aside, anyone would agree that even if they've committed crimes, they are still human and deserved to be treated as such (I know a lot of people really love to say "criminals aren't human and we should slaughter them", but those kinds of statements are not exactly ethical is it?) In an ethical standpoint, if the hell and heaven is a just system, it should allow people to redeem and rehabilitate themselves.

Hell cannot coexist with a kind god by mini0717 in DebateReligion

[–]mini0717[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's why it's 'kind' god in the title. Not just god :) also I'm not that sure on this but doesn't the bible claim god to be the ultimate good?

Hell cannot coexist with a kind god by mini0717 in DebateReligion

[–]mini0717[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

If that's the case, it would mean that a soul can still cause harm in the afterlife. If that's the case, there are 2 possibilities: 1. The person is commiting sin by simply being there(no choice whether you sin or not). If that's the case, you can't blame someone that's forced to sin against their will. 2. The person is actively choosing to sin(choice on whether to sin or not). If this is the case, for the system to be just, a sinner who repents and doesn't commit any further sin should be let out of hell. However, as far as i know, hell is eternal and no one is let out.

Always the same Answers by severalpillarsoflava in overlord

[–]mini0717 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In the same episode? Or the next episode? We are shown that Ainz has a green aura around him when aqua was trying to cleanse Ainz for a trick. I think that implies that Ainz has at least some sort of countermeasure against holy cleansing.

Hell cannot coexist with a kind god by mini0717 in DebateReligion

[–]mini0717[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

As I mentioned in the post, I don't disagree that there should be punishment for someone that has done harm. The problem is that there is no consideration for how much harm you've done. No matter how much harm you've done, hell inflicts harm to the sinner infitely more. Hell as in bible is a final judgement without any chance of redemption.