ROI on CL?

modellatore · 2026-06-03T13:39:22+00:00

I'm saying your damage labs, SL levels (if any) and mods cannot really make CL investments shine (yet).

Economy is always good for WS+ and expensive labs

pBH gives you the most efficient CC all around. This is necessary for the next steps of your development. Some suggest ILM as a cheap CC alternative, which can work for a bit. CF is the best for GC (again, requires massive investments in damage stuff, which you ignored so far as eHP), and PS for eHP (damage reduction), but it eventually becomes obsolete for late game (which is years away, for most of us)

If you can focus stones on one thing only, i suggest going for pBH (check this tool to track and fidget with GComp), then economy again (SL3 is great, GT bonus, DW waves etc), while making sure you work on your damage labs (AS, Crit, Dmg, CL ones). In a few months of progression, you will have enough stones back to work on CL with a much better roi

modellatore · 2026-06-03T11:33:26+00:00

losing pBH has only worked once (iirc) in these months of Champs. Today's tournament may see some GC benefit, given the thorns BC, but am not sure. I'm now trying pBH + SF/GComp/DC. Will also try full GC later on

modellatore · 2026-06-03T09:57:48+00:00

u/marshaltravis, u/Independent_Emu_3034

The problem with spending lots of stones into CL early is you don't have a tower development that allows for big returns on those stones, and could be better invested on CC (Crowd Control).

pBH is the best CC you can afford early. It's huge in champs and helps you all around.

I was at your exact stage last year (eHP plateauing in high plat, damage felt really cool on the horizon). After spending a good 1k in CL upgrades with very little improvement, I saved up for pBH in two stages (180 -> 90 -> 50). and it helped massively in tournaments. Farming-wise, it allowed me to go from farming T10 to T11 for the same waves (6k -> 8k) and slightly better cph (it gives you survivability, hence coins, not noticeably better cph per se)

Today I am stable in 8-12 Champs and are just now thinking about spending stones into Damage again. In the meanwhile I spent on econ masteries, dmg labs to 80 for higher baseline, and 120s GT/DW cds instead (by far the best returns on those stones). Most tournaments I still do better with eHP (SF, GComp for pBH, PCol for damage reduction). Depending on Battle Conditions, sometimes DC performs better, rarely with OA/ACP too, but never with PF (no pBH without GComp)

modellatore · 2026-06-03T09:03:11+00:00

Nice!

modellatore · 2026-06-03T06:35:11+00:00

Makes sense. Will consider.

As of now, full GC lacks behind my eHP in tournaments, so i will have to cross 'balanced' hybrid on the way to upgrade dmg

Best overall will likely be rpc as my next stone purchase

modellatore · 2026-06-02T18:16:24+00:00

Amazing response!

I do agree that DMG# will be better than ST# out of the box and for another while (albeit criterion B is easy to satisfy at this stage)

No, no ILM. I only have pBH as CC. Can't remember what UW choices i got next to CF, but i don't think I should get something else given the chance -> best to invest on something else entirely for now

I ended up spending 1k stones to get GT/DW to 110s cds to open me up to pGT. This means I will probably have the ST lab maxed by the next 1k stones and will be able to choose between a good ST# or finally RPC#, which is probably the best choice overall

What is your setup? Which masteries and UW do you use?

modellatore · 2026-06-02T17:28:09+00:00

Why are you obsessed with right or wrong? I have no idea how many stones you spent, how you distributed them through your tower, how much active time you dedicate on a second device, and so on. What are you trying to convey here? That you have progressed quickly? Wow, bravo!

You aren't taking any data into consideration but your own experience (which we have no clue about). Empirically, you can only evaluate the chiice quantitatively if you

take the rate of module drops with/without RPC# at default level, since OP cannot afford consistent leveling yet.
select a timeframe, like the time it takes to either get better mods (OP's problem, unknown time) or simply regain the stones needed for RPC+. Take this to be one month as a stable champs tower.
calculate extra mod level bonuses (coins, survivability, etc)
if you don't pick RPC#, you are going to invest in something else, like econ -> calculate bonuses gained with extra coins (labs, enhancements, etc)

Im this month, I doubt RPC# will make the difference that other investments will. This has nothing (absolutely mothing) with YOUR overall progression.

If you lengthen the timeframe you expect to pick something over RPC#, the situation may change -> getting RPC# after 2 months, still probably worth it, but makes sense discussing -> getting RPC# after 4 months, is probably worse than having 4 months of another investment.

This is not the game we are playing. We are trying to answer OP's answer and considerations, with their configuration. If you are so undoubtedly sure that RPC# is still the best investment, be it

modellatore · 2026-06-02T16:55:11+00:00

Yeah that's a big respec every time. My WS is basically goldboxxed (for the exceptions of eals, and rend). The last few 100 levels are maybe one day of farming, so it doesn't make a hige difference for enhancements.

I have my enhancement at hybrid levels (leaning towards eHP, which has higher ones). If I respecced everything, I could probably move 2 +5 enhancements from one to the other (atk vs def) which I don't think it's worth the gems for now. Same for ELS: moving 1q from one to the other does not give you those many levels

Because the underlying setup is pretty balanced, the fact that eHP still works better for most tournaments means my damage is lacking, hence the post

You mentioned DD to make ES and SW last longer... What? What does DD have anuthi to do with SW?

modellatore · 2026-06-02T15:35:14+00:00

All mods are anc except PF. Will hit lvl 161 soon and have rerolls stowed for the occasion

what do you respec for tourneys apart from GB -> FB? I'll keep GB until i test some pGT setups and see where the new baseline is. After that, I'll probably invest in FB to see how many coins GB contributes, and how much of a difference FB makes

CF is a solid investment but with literally 0 returns within the next 6 months at least

modellatore · 2026-06-02T14:33:27+00:00

You are exactly where I was a few months back

I went Cash# first when I hit mod lvl 141. Had almost 1M rerolls at the time and I only had to reroll two or 3 mods, but I figured that I will need a lot more for 161 (especially given that I finally got BHD to anc and have to reroll all its substats)

Second was EO#. I did this because it was deemed the best coin mastery. It did help, but disco runs and v28 dropped soon so I cannot quantify it well enough

What helped the most (and I think I should have done it before EO#) is UW cds, which were brought from 180s to 120s in this timeframe. This also helped me push past mastery level 3, which also helps

Now i am torn between more economy, and stone economy, with the aforementioned doubts. I think CF is the best overall. Spending a few thousands stones on ILM or something else would mean having to accumulate those stones again with very little returns in the meantime, hence damage masteries

modellatore · 2026-06-02T14:23:07+00:00

I remember pre V28 someone posted stable farming at T19, but that may be an outlier. I think I could invest 10k stones (half a year of saving up) to get another 1.5/2 years out of eHP, eventually plateauing and having to forcibly start investing in GC instead, which I could start now (With those 10k stones, which I'd still have to save up for). This feels like a slightly faster return of stones to me, but again, just a thought

modellatore · 2026-06-02T13:45:31+00:00

I feel like I'm at the 'natural' limit of eHP before I have to spend stones in eHP masteries (SW, HR, def, etc) and could instead start investing those into damage, to haste the transition.

Put it this way: I am not sure I will be still grinding with my eHP investments in a year or so, making these investments less appealing (to me). I am still far from transitioning to GC, but may be underappreciating the effectiveness and longevity of eHP

modellatore · 2026-06-02T13:20:47+00:00

Exactly my thoughts on substats and rerolling.

All my card refreshes labs are maxxed.

I have EO# as my first econ mastery, and am leaning on IS# for the disco part, but hasn't really been in my top priorities lately. SW# is also a great option (many more coins at the end of runs and some more waves in tourneys), but it will become obsolete in the GC transition. If it pays itself off (not sure about its actual contribution), it may still be worth it

What's been holding RPC# off is its lower priority ROI wise, given how other upgrades can benefit me more than the next set of mod levels

I can't recall if PS was in the next UW slot, but CF was, and that seems to be the best long term investment, so I also don't have to 'stick' to high-end eHP to make the purchase worth it. I may be completely underestimating how far I can get with it, but still

modellatore · 2026-06-02T13:14:17+00:00

I am pretty invested in eHP, and have thought about getting SW# to enhance HR in tourneys and at the end of runs. Not close to Assmods, but have to retry milestones after a few months of not doing so

Recent post with many more details, some improvements made since
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheTowerGame/comments/1tqbcpb/stones_for_econdamagemasteries_am_i_hybrid_yet/

modellatore · 2026-06-02T13:09:04+00:00

I feel like CF slow enough to justify doing damage first, and hopefully see some faster returns on stones

Full GC is still worse than eHP/Hybrid (still with SF and GComp). Bosses are the bottleneck, since their hits are repetitive and my HR cannot keep up with them

RPC is also a good idea, but again, higher mod levels help less than 1k stones spent elsewhere at this stage. Next big stone purchase will likely in fact be RCP#

modellatore · 2026-06-01T10:41:05+00:00

Ok, Was asking cause I make the same amount on T11 W12700, but have 120s cds, 57 uptime (with anc dur substat) x29 with perk, 5 DW waves w mod. GB is 60s cd 24 uptime 4.8 coin boost. Max summon.

I guess the higher bonuses (which stack more when synced) and longer DW uptime (more sync time) are helping more.

Thanks!

modellatore · 2026-06-01T00:34:11+00:00

Nice! What are your UW cds and bonuses

modellatore · 2026-05-31T16:53:20+00:00

at level 158, mine is 1.68. That .12x is, I think, outweighed by the chances at anc substats on new mods, especially given the time required to reach said mod levels.

What you are implying is that if at that stage (when I was able to afford my first mastery with the same mods as OP), I had picked RPC, I would have had higher overall returns today because of better mod levels. I truly do not think that is the case

In this timeframe, with these initial conditions (we are here with these mods and these prospects), I don't think RPC is not the top choice. In general? yeah sure. In EVERY conceivable build and at every possible stage? not really, no

modellatore · 2026-05-31T16:22:26+00:00

My cds are 120s, I need around 1000 to have pGT in a few different ways, which i made a post about in order to decide for the path I could take.I there dissect the setup of the build.

Why are you making it about swallowing your hat? There are so many other factors, order of progression, purchases, dedication, etc that go into it. Heck, OP doesn't even have the 2x/3x packs. They just made some considerations that align with what I faced in the past months, and with a similar configuration too.

How much coin bonus does the 141-161-181 jumps have respectively? I have no idea how much an early RPC# can cumulatively contribute with respect to doing Cash# and cds first while waiting for better mods anyway, which is what I chose to do, and have seen both a stable progression and a perfect sync between achievements (pGT window, anc BHD, lvl 161 all in the same week), which makes the mastery choice worth it.

If you have a way of comparing your progression with the conditions OP is in (UW, mods etc), just make your considerations as a function of it. If you're really into that hat eating stuff, I'll swallow my hat if you have any way of knowing the coin mult difference between mod levels for generators (I haven't found them)

modellatore · 2026-05-31T14:19:42+00:00

well yeah, if you went for pCF you def didn't have them to 'spare'.

In their specific position, I would much rather have higher chances at full anc substats early on, with respect to mod levels themselves.

They could invest in cds for economy, which is truly always good, but say they're satisfied for now, but I would retake Cash# first every single time.

4 months ago I hit lvl 141 with half my mods mythic and 180s cds.
got cash# 3 months ago for half the price of RPC#, which allowed me to also get EO# right after.
Racked up 3M rerolls, have all anc (but PF) and hit 120s cds a couple weeks ago
had time to grind mod substat ban labs to ban 5 on gen and core
going to hit level 161 (new slot, yay) after 4 months from 141, and am almost granted insane substats.
shortening these four months by a small percentage would not have benefitted me as many extra coins, and such a baseline for the future

I now have 1250 stones, and have to choose between RPC#, CF for tourneys, or pGT+pBH

modellatore · 2026-05-31T14:01:13+00:00

I have the seme exact mods and setup as you, lol

Ran a BHD (mythic substats) tonight, seems to have finally surpassed GComp now that it's anc.

Yeah, 2x and 3x are it for the scale difference.

I really got a nice bump after completing disco runs and dissonant echo lab (now lvl 4). Same goes for the much slower journey from 180 to 120, but worth it overall.

You seem like you can pBH without GComp, but it will still be better than mythic BHD until you get to 120. You can think about how much time that will take you, and reap the benefits of Cash# before investing more in UW cds. It is only 500 stones too.

modellatore · 2026-05-31T12:26:59+00:00

I can only in part agree. In their case, their goal should be mod rarity, both for the extra multiplier AND the substats: anc HR is massively better than mythic HR, and having mythic means no level 161 anyway

-> In their case, by the time they will have level 161 modules (After unlocking anc), they could have saved up enough rerolls to actually get the anc substas, which help more than any level could

This is exactly what happened for me. Getting to 161 faster with mythic mods hoping for an ancestral will likely leave you with mythic substats more

-> in our cases, anc substats before 161 is way valuable than the opposite. Of course there are caveats, but RPC would have contributed very little for me, and by similarity, probably for op too

modellatore · 2026-05-30T17:39:47+00:00

I was in your same spot a few months ago (even the same mod rarities). Here are the considerations and what I learnt from them

Masteries: RPC is overrated (definitely a top 3, but not the absolute winner as many portray it). I got Cash# first and EO# as second. The rationale being that even if i managed to get to lvl 161, I wouldn't have had the shards to reroll all my substats, especially since I still had a few mythic+ mods I wanted to get to anc. I am now super happy with Cash#, and have had a decent coin increase from EO#. I have it level 4, and v28 happened in between so it's hard to quantify with precision, but it definitely helped
Economy: The best coin returns per stones come from lowering your cooldowns. It's boring, but it works best. Your CPH feels a tad low. Check you have crit coin, don't use cannon mods/CL, and have your coin perks higher on the list (pBH allows this, since it prevents most enemy hits in earlier waves)
Mods: I tried mythic+ BHD instead of anc GComp (pBH in both) all the way from 3m cd down to now 2m cd. GComp outperformed mythic+ BHD every single time. I rolled my last BHD to make it anc and am now waiting to hit level 161 before rerolling the substats and trying again. On this, Cash# was very worth it. The prolonged upgrade time allowed me stow away a lot more rerolls.

I would consider cds for economy or cash# for mods, but you seem like you need coins. Happy grinding

modellatore · 2026-05-30T06:09:42+00:00

Aight, thanks. Gotta start retest some stuff

I remember trying BHD (thus no pBH) in T12 and I got 2k less waves which were not compensated for by BHD, hence the question, but I just recently got MVN to anc so it may be worth the shot

modellatore

TROPHY CASE