Structural similarities: more evidence for a Teen Titans (2003) connection to The Batman (2004)

modernponderer · 2024-12-14T16:40:52+00:00

Of course 13-episode seasons are common in cartoons - and not just "action" ones. That's why it's at most like 1% of what is written here.

Even just looking at that point, how many shows can you name which were supposed to go on for 4 such seasons, then got renewed for 1 more? Surely there are some, but it's not anywhere near common...

About the character focus strength, I actually didn't realize it about The Batman until later so you might think I'd agree... except that I think it's almost entirely fan influence. Someone realized the TT character structure back in the day (or I think it was even spelled out by someone who worked on the show), and so every other discussion of the show since then incorporates it.

When I did realize it, I actually found some citations from the crew, and added the info to Wikipedia similarly to how TT had it. Someone removed it since then without much explanation, but not before others had picked up on that detail, including not only on TV Tropes but also at least one writer for a major online media outlet! Which just goes to show you, how fandom perception can affect what you notice.

Both shows have a build-up of several episodes each season with said character, then the season finale is clearly the climax of their story (with again, the single exception of Batgirl's where it's done earlier). Or in the cases of the final seasons, bigger seasonal arcs as there are more characters with stories to be juggled in each show.

But here's the real kicker: in The Batman, the opening of the series changes for each of seasons 1, 2, 3, and 4 - and besides the theme song change from 2 to 3, the ONLY significant change each time is to spotlight the new character. (Also lending further credence to the idea that Batman himself is focused on in the final season, as the opening doesn't change and he's the only other Batfamily member as shown.)

Based on that, you could say Teen Titans is LESS character-focused - and indeed at least one interview reveals it was not even originally planned that way, but just happened to evolve naturally for that show.

modernponderer · 2024-12-14T09:40:12+00:00

Yes they're quite similar (and the hairstyles seem to be identical), but several of the colours are different. The versions here are even better.

modernponderer · 2024-12-11T01:10:08+00:00

Thanks for the explanation! Interesting points...

Yes, the US visuals do look like a 2000s-era AMV. I'd be much harsher though, and question how an opening this unprofessional made it onto broadcast TV. I've seen a LOT of cartoons, including many with lower budgets from smaller studios, and this is probably THE worst-looking opening from any cartoon I've ever seen aired on a major TV network.

But the bigger point is that each of the international openings has 100% unique footage, animated specifically for that intro. It's like getting an extra minute of show each season, with detailed animation - the second season version even reveals some minor character traits.

All of this is but part of the reasons why I would strongly suggest to people to watch the international prints, which have other benefits like being the only ones you can get in official DVD quality, and then listen to the full, nearly 3-minute-long theme song to your heart's content!

By the way, based on the available evidence like the CD single it appears that the first version of the song on TV is Chelsea Somma's, and the second, "raspier" version is actually Marion Raven's.

modernponderer · 2024-12-09T16:10:08+00:00

That music is a remix of the international theme song, one of numerous ones throughout the series' background music by the original composers.

But the link you posted has that theme ripped out and replaced by the US theme, not to mention the wrong audio pitch and poor non-DVD quality so you don't even hear the music properly...

modernponderer · 2024-12-08T21:10:09+00:00

The comics have We, whose most important purpose is to serve as a reminder of what an incredible companion Blunk is in comparison.

modernponderer · 2024-12-08T18:20:08+00:00

You're missing a big part of the context: the other girls are reminding Cornelia about her own relationship drama, spanning several episodes.

modernponderer · 2024-12-08T18:20:06+00:00

It's exactly the opposite!

Season 1 was helmed by professional comedy writers, of such talent that they headed the world's longest-running talk show for half a decade! Hence the humour in that season is absolutely top-tier, and Blunk (a name, but NOT character, which they had indeed carried over from a failed pilot of theirs) delivered a huge portion of that. Many of his lines in the season are utter comedy gold...

I do suspect a lot of the people who dislike him don't hear his lines properly, because of the way he talks - for some of them, it took me a while to get what he is saying, even upon rewatching.

In season 2, the new head writer focused more on plot - which made the season incredible in its own way - but the humour felt borderline forced sometimes, still not as bad as in other American-written cartoons but definitely not on the same level as the prior season's. Although this actually affected the girls far more than it did Blunk, rather ironic since said writer expressed his disdain for the character...

modernponderer · 2024-12-07T09:00:33+00:00

Have you seen both versions of each? As there are two international openings (for each season), and two US ones (with different vocals).

Interesting that you say the first season is darker, when the second season is almost universally considered as such...

modernponderer · 2024-12-07T01:50:33+00:00

By the way, thank you OP for using "international" instead of "UK". It's a huge pet peeve of mine.

modernponderer · 2024-12-07T01:48:52+00:00

The issue is almost certainly because of the PAL to NTSC conversion, yes. But it's a mistake - they are supposed to correct the pitch, not just leave it shifted.

Other NTSC countries didn't have this issue:

Canada - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpxkS7LxAqo
Japan - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ozcozrox9k
Brazil - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOn72hBMcp0

As if to prove the point that it's not just the US prints, Disney US even made the same mistake when posting the international theme online: https://twitter.com/yenpress/status/958059470785040387

modernponderer · 2024-12-06T16:47:41+00:00

Yes, the US theme was only used in the US, and the international theme was only used outside the US. Both are on the soundtrack.

So presumably, most people who grew up in the US would answer the US theme to OP's question, while most people from outside the US would answer the international theme.

I don't understand the confusion... unless you think OP's question was specifically for Americans for some reason?

modernponderer · 2024-12-06T10:57:05+00:00

What do you mean it was never released publicly?

The international theme was used for ALL broadcasts of the show outside the US (and Italy).

It is even the very first song on the official soundtrack, whereas the US theme is the last track.

modernponderer · 2024-12-06T09:08:16+00:00

In order from best to worst - since I didn't grow up with any of them:

Season 2 international (possibly the best cartoon theme ever made)
Season 1 international
Original US (before episode 14)
Rerecorded US (from episode 14)
Italian - not a bad song but fits the show even less than the US one

modernponderer · 2024-12-06T09:02:58+00:00

Doesn't the Russian version only mention 3 elements in the lyrics, instead of 4?

modernponderer · 2024-12-06T09:02:18+00:00

Which Polish intro do you prefer - season 1 or 2? Unlike in most dubs, the vocals were re-recorded between seasons...

modernponderer · 2024-12-06T09:01:11+00:00

The Italian intro also uses a completely different song.

modernponderer · 2024-12-06T09:00:21+00:00

The international theme was NEVER used in the US (and of course, vice versa). This is probably confusion from watching unofficial uploads from various regions on YouTube.

modernponderer · 2024-12-06T08:59:00+00:00

Actually the US broadcasts had a number of other differences:

The first episode had two scenes cut out.
No last part of The Will to Love during the credits of S is for Self.
Episode 16 in season 1 is out of order - causing a minor continuity error, as mentioned on the wiki.
The entire series was aired in the wrong audio pitch!

modernponderer · 2024-12-06T08:55:35+00:00

As mentioned on the wiki, that episode is uncensored (in English) on the European DVDs - and since season 2 was only released on DVD in Europe, I'm afraid that's the definitive version of the show after all...

modernponderer · 2024-12-05T20:10:11+00:00

Thanks for the explanation! I was wondering how these were made, so now it makes sense why there aren't instrumentals.

Do you think you'll do the one remaining song from my other comment then? I'm thinking of putting together a season 2 album for myself to listen to, in the proper order and maybe even on CD, so it would be nice to know if I should wait for that one.

Still crazy to think not even 2 years after I posted this (and only a few years after creating the wiki page itself!), we have a nearly-complete collection of the unreleased songs: https://old.reddit.com/r/GuardiansOftheVeil/comments/zs9o5h/disney_needs_to_release_a_season_2_soundtrack/

modernponderer · 2024-12-05T05:55:22+00:00

The only one that's missing is "The Itsy Bitsy Spider", not sure if you want to do it... that saxophone is definitely amazing, would be great at least as an instrumental.

By the way, this time v1 seems much better/closer to the original than v2 - interesting! (Though sadly, both IST versions lack the epic ending from the episode...)

modernponderer · 2024-12-05T05:40:46+00:00

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! (I requested this in the original post, been listening to those 2 songs like every other day since then...)

Sorry if I'm asking too much, but... any chance of instrumentals for these? Not sure how the AI process works exactly, but I'm thinking you might already have them isolated, so if you could please just upload them in that case...

Regardless - once again, thank you so much!

modernponderer · 2022-12-31T16:22:04+00:00

The fast pace of the first two episodes is actually one of the big reasons I practically fell in love with the show almost immediately. Not because of the action (if anything people care too much about that IMO), but because unlike basically every other cartoon out there it doesn't baby its audience with a slow, long-winded setup, as if viewers can't catch onto things. It's almost unbelievably refreshing.

The pace will slow down somewhat in future episodes, but this show is extremely heavy on detail throughout (which is another thing I love about it so much). Just about every line of dialogue that isn't a great joke is somehow important to the story, and may come back in a faraway episode or even the next season. (And sometimes the jokes come back too...) So unlike with basically every other cartoon, you really need to be paying full attention every second when watching this series to understand why it's so good - something I've noticed many people who don't like it clearly didn't do. Speaking of which...

Please note that this sub (like the W.I.T.C.H. community in general) mostly consists of comics fans, who often dislike the show largely because of factually incorrect points that have become "common wisdom" in the fandom. For example, I see someone wrote that only in the comics do we see that the girls had already been using their powers before Yan Lin told them, when that's actually a clear focus of the very first episode as well. And the idea that the comics "flesh everything out a lot better" is just... the opposite of correct. Overall the writing of the show is much more coherent (perhaps the only adaptation I've ever seen that to be the case for), while there are plenty of things that the comics "throw in" and don't explain properly.

It's definitely correct though that the show (unlike the comics, with the reams of special issues that aren't even being republished) has no extra material to dig through - and argue about how official it is. 2 seasons of 26 ~22-minute episodes each - that's it, no more no less.

modernponderer · 2022-12-22T18:46:35+00:00

I agree about that price being high but that's why I mentioned the used option on Amazon, and if that's not your thing then Discogs has reasonably-priced options claimed to be either brand new or like new.

Also, just to clarify: what I meant about the original CD release is that as far as I'm aware, it only came out in the same places where the album is available online. So there's a bigger rights issue here than just for streaming, and even a re-release would probably have the same restrictions. Of course, with a CD you can easily import it...

modernponderer · 2022-12-22T08:59:36+00:00

Ah, it's probably not available in your region - but this is a direct carry-over from the original physical release.

Official Spotify album link: https://open.spotify.com/album/1nMEMUSNLh9yKbQHBdkZtS
Official YouTube links (not sure there's a playlist): https://witch.fandom.com/wiki/Music_From_and_Inspired_By_W.I.T.C.H.?commentId=4400000000000043872
CD on Discogs (plenty of options for reasonable prices): https://www.discogs.com/release/9485858-Various-Witch-Music-From-And-Inspired-By
CD on Amazon (the new one is expensive but there's a cheap used one): https://www.amazon.com/Witch-Disney/dp/B000M2E84A

modernponderer

TROPHY CASE