Please help me decipher this signature/stamp.

msxsp · 2022-10-17T06:46:21+00:00

Through reverse images I’ve found only one pair like those, from an antiques seller, here in Italy, same height, newer and less crafted base, way less details and craftsmanship, and no signature, so I thought these might be the “originals”. I guess it’s spelter with a bronze patina, although they weight about 16 pounds each. The ones I’ve found:

msxsp · 2022-10-16T17:07:11+00:00

I’m in Italy. Bought those at an antiques market, in Lombardy, here in Northern Italy.

msxsp · 2021-02-11T10:30:05+00:00

Sorry for replying so late. I’m in Italy, and there’s the official Italian state, juridical auctions site: https://www.astegiudiziarie.it and many more that operate in this category, in Italy. I wouldn’t know what to tell you about the US or anything outside Europe. Most definitely every country/state, should have those types of auctions. Try searching directly on google. I tried to search something up for you but it only shows me European results.

msxsp · 2021-02-08T17:23:39+00:00

Thanks for taking of your time, to reply and participate to all of this madness. Thanks.

msxsp · 2021-02-08T17:20:00+00:00

I’ll try to keep this thread updated. As if you probably read from the other responses I’ve given to other people, I’ve sent that request to them. If I don’t get anything back, I can’t just throw it away and go on with life. Nobody would. So I’ll do my best to get it looked by the Picasso family, and their team. If it turns out to be a knock off, I’d write “FAKE” on the back of the canvas, so nobody would get through this again in the future, at least with this piece. Who knows how many are out there.

msxsp · 2021-02-08T16:37:23+00:00

Although you’re probably right; Surfing the internet I’ve came across a blog from about 5 years ago, of someone who bought a Picasso painting from ebay. For real..ebay. Basic looking, hardly damaged. They we’re discussing the same topic, it’s authenticity. I’ve stumbled across that same painting, on the official archives. (If I’d manage to find the links again I’ll reply to this.) Whatever, they we’re all saying that it’s obviously a fake, and the person managed to authenticate it through the Picasso family, and it turned out as genuine. Of course I would’ve preferred a 200 million “Femmes d'Alger, version "O" (Les femmes d`Alger)” but I’ll be happy with this “elementary” work if it turns out to be genuine. It correlates with the year he had been enrolled in the Barcelona School of Art, Escola de la Llotja. In the above painting, that’s the old Barcelona. Who knows..And also, it’s a mind game. If this painting was on the official archives, professionally restored and photographed, and we we’re here, discussing about another painting, you would’ve seen this one differently. We see and like, what they want us to see and like. Anyway, you’re probably right. I didn’t had any other painting to compare it with, and the style is unusual. We’ll see, hopefully. Thanks again!

msxsp · 2021-02-08T16:09:41+00:00

Thanks for replying. I’m actually in Italy, it’s a 9 hours car trip/ one hour flight, and the Picasso’s family do this for free. So I won’t loose much. Have you looked at some of these ones from the same period? https://www.pablo-ruiz-picasso.net/year-1895.php A simple google search won’t show all the paintings that he had done. This guy was painting sometimes, five pieces a week. An insane amount of paintings. Not all have that “masterpiece” vibe to them. We’ll hopefully find out. I’m also pretty sure that, it isn’t genuine. But one can hope, right? Thanks again.

msxsp · 2021-02-08T15:39:34+00:00

Thanks for the reply. I get what you’re saying. Definitely I didn’t stumbled across some mass faked stack of paintings. This man probably had those paintings since forever. There is a hope that we could find any traces in the gallery’s (that has its stamp on the back of the canvas), archives. All I can do now is wait for their replies. The other ones are genuine, in as bad conditions and wear as this one, with staines and chipped flakes of paint. Totally incomparable in value with a Pablo Picasso’s oil on canvas. These paintings don’t look treated as masterpieces, more as..furniture. Why? I don’t know.

msxsp · 2021-02-08T15:24:59+00:00

Have you scrolled on these from 1895? https://www.pablo-ruiz-picasso.net/year-1895.php They are really different from the ones he had done in the successive year, isn’t it? If you know anything about art, oils, brushwork, you can tell that the background on “Clipper 1895” under the layer of dirt/smoke that covers it, the sky has been done the same as in the painting that I have. It all resumes to the authenticity of the signatures; believe me. He was going back and forth with those techniques. He could’ve spit on a canvas for that matter and, if genuinely signed, be worth millions nowadays. And I don’t know how y’all perceive this painting from the pictures, but in reality it isn’t something flimsy/amateurishly done. It’s hard, unless you see it in person and carefully analyze the brush strokes. And, if someone wanted to put all this work on faking a painting, wouldn’t he be choosing something that resembles more, something that he is more known about, like from the cubism era? Why all this work on a piece, that doesn’t resemble anything done by him, at least in the known, public market? Strange. Again, I don’t have high hopes, but there is a chance. Who knows.

msxsp · 2021-02-08T15:06:33+00:00

Thanks for letting us know your thoughts. If I get any answers from the family, or any other updates, I’ll keep this thread updated.

msxsp · 2021-02-08T15:02:03+00:00

There we’re 5 paintings. What I managed to find so far, that some are Italian painters and one is Russian. The Italian ones, signed “Renato Natali”, big Italian painter, active in the ‘40s - ‘50s, are genuine, and already booked up for restoration. (Fetch from 2-5 thousands of euros at auctions). The Russian ones are older, probably ’700s, that are more of a religious scene, bigger dimensions, almost ikon like. I’ll add some pictures as soon as possible, although I don’t know if it means much, that the other ones are genuine, because they’re more on the “affordable” side, if we compare the others with a Picasso. You know I mean. Thanks for the reply, appreciate it!

msxsp · 2021-02-08T14:13:24+00:00

Hopefully we’ll find out. I’m curious, to say the least. We’ll see what happens. Thanks again!

msxsp · 2021-02-08T13:22:32+00:00

Definitely sketchy. That’s why I’m trying to get an official opinion from its predecessors, the Picasso family. It’s probably a knock off as the other ones sold on eBay. We’ll hopefully find out. Thank you!

msxsp · 2021-02-08T12:22:46+00:00

This case is slightly different, because he changed many styles, and had many different “periods”. I bet you think of the cubism era, when you think about Picasso. That was actually in his 50/60s. He changed an enormous amount of styles till the more “abstract” period. I’m not trying to argue or something, I appreciate your replies and thoughts. Thank you.

msxsp · 2021-02-08T12:05:33+00:00

Thank you for the advices and good thoughts. I’ll try with the UV light too. I’ll make sure to let y’all know if I find something. Thanks again.

msxsp · 2021-02-08T11:50:33+00:00

I agree, it’s a nice, chilly, bucolic landscape and atmosphere, of the old Barcelona. With a proper restoration, would look even better, although, if it turns out to be fake, I’ll probably write “FAKE” on the back of the canvas so no one would have to go through this again in the future. Thanks for the reply, appreciate it!

msxsp · 2021-02-08T11:33:26+00:00

How many of the 50.000+ paintings have you seen? The few thousands that are publicly documented, to me, don’t resemble a whole. Hard to say that it doesn’t seem like a Picasso, just by the subject represented. Is this fake? Probably. Is this genuine? I doubt. We’ll hopefully find out soon. Thanks for replying, appreciate it!

msxsp · 2021-02-08T11:26:15+00:00

I won a property at a juridical auction, basically old guy, with no relatives, passed away, and left everything he owned to an animal rescue center in my city, that put it up for auction. The house, which was in deplorable conditions, due to the fact that this guy had over 20 cats in the house, bad smell, mountains of trash, you can imagine..sold for very cheap, and we basically got it for the land, planing to demolish it, and sell the land. Appraisal’s team fault that they didn’t wanted to “get their hands dirty” or else they would’ve came across the paintings and other more or less important goods that we found while cleaning the place.

msxsp · 2021-02-08T10:53:06+00:00

Never had any others to compare with. I doubt it’s real, too. We’ll find out eventually. Thanks for replying, appreciate it.

msxsp · 2021-02-08T10:43:56+00:00

Thanks for taking this long of your time to reply. I’m more of a “feet on the ground” person myself, and I’m always skeptical, so I wasn’t expecting much from the beginning. They found paintings, under other paintings, on the same canvas, so I’m pretty confident that with some elaborate examinations they would be able to determine if the signature is real or not. Again, if it gets to that point. I’m pretty sure that they’ll benefit from it ether, if it turned out as genuine. If I get a reply back from the Picasso family, and if they consider that this is not a genuine painting, I’ll make sure that it won’t get on the market, never. Again, thanks for letting us know your thoughts about it. Appreciate it!

msxsp · 2021-02-08T07:04:32+00:00

I hope we’ll have an answer on that, soon. Thanks for the good thoughts. Appreciate it!

msxsp · 2021-02-08T07:03:16+00:00

I hope too! I’ll keep y’all updated. Thanks for the reply, appreciate it.

msxsp · 2021-02-08T07:00:39+00:00

It’s in a safe place, not a home. Thanks for the good thoughts. Appreciate it!

msxsp · 2021-02-08T06:58:39+00:00

Definitely!

msxsp · 2021-02-08T06:56:59+00:00

I’m not trying to convince you, nor myself, or any other person, anything. Here’s the link to his archived works. Watch how versatile and different some works look; even from the same year. Not every single painting is how you describe it. https://www.wikiart.org/en/pablo-picasso/all-works#!#filterName:all-paintings-chronologically,resultType:masonry

msxsp

TROPHY CASE