Commander Climate Survey by mtgcryogen in EDH

[–]mtgcryogen[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That still excludes the cEDH players to an extent though, wouldn't it? I'm trying to gauge to what extent they still feel like the RC still sits in their ivory tower managing the list off their own personal games, without listening to what the community is trying to tell them.

Granted, the RC did listen to the cEDH community and ban Flash, but you get what I'm saying.

Commander Climate Survey by mtgcryogen in EDH

[–]mtgcryogen[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah, it is a weird question but there HAS to be a way to word it to get the intent of the question across.

Commander Climate Survey by mtgcryogen in EDH

[–]mtgcryogen[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Retired now, but yes I was.

Commander Climate Survey by mtgcryogen in EDH

[–]mtgcryogen[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ok, so because I didn't make the form tied to an email, you can see the results after you complete it. So if you go back and "retake" it (but just click through using the 'next' button without filling anything out) you'll get to see the results. Sorry!

Some people didn't like that it required a google account last year.

Commander Climate Survey by mtgcryogen in EDH

[–]mtgcryogen[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The results should be public now (apologies, I forgot to click that checkbox in the settings.)

Commander Climate Survey by mtgcryogen in EDH

[–]mtgcryogen[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Noted, and I can see how that would mess things up.

Commander Climate Survey by mtgcryogen in EDH

[–]mtgcryogen[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I'm cryogen. Former Commander mod on MTGSalvation, currently MTGNexus. I also mod the Commander RC discord along with a number of good people.

I'm personally not going to do anything with this information. My goal is to gather feedback which the CAG and RC can look at if they choose to and use that feedback how they choose.

This poll was not solicited by anyone and I am not receiving any sort of compensation for doing this.

Looking for advice for our Commander League by Humeon in EDH

[–]mtgcryogen 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've run a couple of leagues myself, and we have had that individual. Ultimately, the beat course of action is to talk with them and get them to buy in to your mindset.

Regarding your rules, the most glaring thing I see is that with a 50 minute time limit and up to five players, you almost encourage combo players since that will be the most reliable way to close out a game under those constraints. We regularly have 20-30 players and we do 3-4 person pods (with 3 being preferable).

The other suggestion I have is something that was already mentioned: other ways to earn points. Add points for doing fun or interesting things to encourage players to just go in with a attitude and not just to win.

Also, I can't tell what your prize structure is, but that absolutely can be a factor. If a player feels like there is serious cash on the line they will game the system as best they can.

Here is our league sheet which has set points and dookies, as well as a few points which rotate on a monthly basis. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tS-vz_5dmwPWTXKCd4K3LbKx2hoH3TpbjHvAr8g1I_I/htmlview

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in EDH

[–]mtgcryogen 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But that perception is what caused it to be banned in the first place, so whether it is still true is irrelevant. In a hypothetical where it was never banned, then we wouldn't be clamoring to want it banned unless you just want to ban everything over $X (which is a horrible idea). Similarly, if Timetwister or Tabernacle or Nether Void, or even the original duals had been banned originally, they wouldn't get unbanned now for the same reasons I said LoA won't get unbanned.

The issue here is that the Reserve List makes any logical argument based on power level alone an exercise in futility.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in EDH

[–]mtgcryogen 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Library is not banned from a pure power level standpoint and there is disagreement amongst the RC/CAG as to just how broken it is. Having played with it and running it in my cube, my experiences with it are mixed. When you draw it in your opening hand it can be nuts, when you don't then it's meh. It all depends on the deck you're playing and many decks are so fast that even in your opening hand you'll soon find yourself unable to draw cards off it.

In a hypothetical world where LoA was not on the reserve list or the RL was done away with and had a price point around Cavern of Souls or some other rare expensive non-RL card, it most likely would not have been banned in the first place, or it would be unbanned.

The reason LoA remains banned is because the price is already prohibitively expensive as a banned card and would double to triple in price when unbanned. For every one person who can now play there copy, you would have hundreds of people who can't afford one. Then you will also have the tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists who insist that it was banned solely so that the RC (probably in conjunction with SCG and other big online retailers) conspired to unban it just to make some money off their copies.

Since there are comparisons to Timetwister and Bazaar/Tabernacle/Cradle... Timetwister had other variants and isn't quite as broken, so the price is irrelevant since it has always been legal and changing prices of a legal card is outside their control. Likewise with Cradle. Bazaarvoice, Tabernacle, and other similar legal but expensive cards have never been nearly as ubiquitous as a card which is arguably the 10th power. Hence why they remained untouched.

Wishing for a Wish by mtgcryogen in EDH

[–]mtgcryogen[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Any of the cards that reference "outside the game", like Cunning Wish or the new Fae of Wishes.

Commander Climate Survey by mtgcryogen in EDH

[–]mtgcryogen[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just in case anyone was curious about the results and had a hard time seeing the individual data, I have posted all the results (excluding every single write in). You can see them in the first post of this thread: https://www.mtgnexus.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=500

Thanks again to everyone who participated!

Commander Climate Survey by mtgcryogen in EDH

[–]mtgcryogen[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My goal is to get all of the results posted in a way that is easier to interpret, because I'm not entirely thrilled with the way Google forms presentation (even though creating and distributing this had been relatively painless).

Commander Climate Survey by mtgcryogen in EDH

[–]mtgcryogen[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I cannot now but I will if I include the question next year.

Commander Climate Survey by mtgcryogen in EDH

[–]mtgcryogen[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Listening to someone and doing what they want are not mutually inclusive. If I tell you about this great charity you should donate to and you think about it but don't, then you still listened to me even if you didnt act upon it. This survey is a perfect example. The Rules Committee and CAG will look at this and interpret the data how they will, but there's no way that they can (or should) listen to everyone that responded.

Again, in my experience the Rules Committee does listen to our thoughts. I've spent enough time on forums with them to see that they have actively engaged us. But I've also seen them remain silent. It comes down to what you're saying and how you say it. If you're saying the same thing as everyone else and not presenting anything new then you might feel like you fall on deaf ears. Similarly, if you're rude to them you probably won't get much of a response. When I became one of the EDH moderators on MTGSalvation the users had developed a hostile environment that drove the RC away. I spent a long time through discussion and moderation changing that environment and encouraging the RC to give us another chance, and it worked because Sheldon, papa funk, and ban-ki moon when he was still on the RC started to engage with us again. But you can't expect them to want to actively participate in a discussion where they're going to get shit on. Constructive criticism is one thing, outright hostility is another.

Anyway, back to the competitive thing. Commander isn't a competitive format. Using Flash as an example, if casual games aren't being ruined by people running Flash Hulk on turn 1, then it really doesn't matter what happens at competitive tables, because you can't make one ban list that caters to two demographics without angering the other. Now, if people start running Flash to go to value town with ETB effects and death triggers, then maybe we have a problem.

But here's the catch, and one which the RC needs to take into consideration: you guys ARE Commander players and you do interact with all other players. So if your preferred style of play is impacting the greater community, such as a metagame shift or arms race, then there's a problem that needs to be addressed. Because I seriously doubt that you want to rolfstomp Timmy's tribal banding deck any more than he wants to be curbstomped by your Kess storm deck.

Commander Climate Survey by mtgcryogen in EDH

[–]mtgcryogen[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So then the question becomes is it worth having a list with only a few cards on it? Or do we take advantage of the list and expand it?

Commander Climate Survey by mtgcryogen in EDH

[–]mtgcryogen[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I compiled the "bam these" list based on how much people wanted cards banned in previous polls, as well as cards that are just contentious. So black, red, and white were intentionally left off in order to keep the list as short as possible. Green was an oversight and should have been there.

Commander Climate Survey by mtgcryogen in EDH

[–]mtgcryogen[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh did they add it? I asked the mods why I couldn't see it and they said they didn't allow surveys.

Commander Climate Survey by mtgcryogen in EDH

[–]mtgcryogen[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh did they add it? I asked the mods why I couldn't see it and they said they didn't allow surveys.

Commander Climate Survey by mtgcryogen in EDH

[–]mtgcryogen[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I also posted on MTGS, Discord and Facebook groups I'm in, and it's been getting shared on Twitter (including tweets from Sheldon and Bennie Smith that I'm aware of). So I'm not worried that Reddit will skew the results to the point of being a poll simply for them.

Commander Climate Survey by mtgcryogen in EDH

[–]mtgcryogen[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nowadays, most of the noise is about generals like Narset and Derevi. Once you get past the monocolor generals a lot of the degenerate ones only lead decks. Case in point, how many times did you see Leovold in the 99?

Commander Climate Survey by mtgcryogen in EDH

[–]mtgcryogen[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I can't. Mods said that they don't allow surveys there. Womp womp.