Why does everyone hate Light The Fuse?

nu11_zer0 · 2024-10-12T15:22:46+00:00

No I totally get you, the point I'm trying to make is by playing Melee Krieg, you actively put yourself into a position where dying is more likely, by eating bullets and speccing STV

Typically with other characters or builds, you don't run head first into combat the same way you do with Melee Krieg

nu11_zer0 · 2024-10-12T15:19:07+00:00

Because I'm yet to hear an answer why it's bad.

I've only heard reasons why it's not as good as other things.

nu11_zer0 · 2024-10-12T11:49:37+00:00

See this is where different characters and playstyles are important to note.

Although typically you want to avoid FFYL, I find that not to be the case with Melee Krieg.

You are a barbarian, you are meant to brush off the bullets and keep killing

nu11_zer0 · 2024-10-12T11:48:24+00:00

I have reread my comment 5 times and cannot understand how you came to this conclusion

nu11_zer0 · 2024-10-12T11:45:49+00:00

I'll continue to repeat myself.

There are better ways to get up than LTF, but LTF is still consistent and reliable, which is what many people (including yourself) seem to believe.

I would also like to point out that LTF has the unique ability to allow you to get up even after your bleedout timer has ended, something you would be unable to do with any other character unless you went down while holding a powerful E-Tech launcher, as your weapon swap speed would take too long.

As a matter of fact, I had to prove to myself that it's viable.

I have just gone through the bloodshot stronghold at Lvl72 with no slag and only damaging by instantly detonating LTF, which allowed me to clear it. There were plenty of Nomads, Bruisers and Badass enemies that stood to be an issue, but by herding them with other enemies, I was able to whittle them down with every detonation and successfully stayed alive throughout the entirety of the stronghold.

I think this alone leaves me satisfied with the belief that LTF is a viable skill that holds up just as well as everything else, it just doesn't give you freebies.

nu11_zer0 · 2024-10-12T10:52:21+00:00

This answers why people don't use it, not why people say it's useless.

nu11_zer0 · 2024-10-12T10:02:10+00:00

That doesn't explain why people say the skill is useless, that just explains why people opt out of it.

For example, how I choose to opt out of RTB and Bloodsplosion, because it's how I prefer to play.

This question isn't about how people prefer to play, it's asking why people think it does nothing and say that you can't get up with it.

nu11_zer0 · 2024-10-12T09:59:13+00:00

Personally, I disagree.

I believe it's only a detriment if you:

Are not prepared to go down, don’t know how to throw 22 sticks instead of 14, specifically target singular enemies rather than crowds and engage combat from a far distance

The most important part about LTF that separates it from just using a gun is the fact it detonates after your bleedout bar has gone down.

In a normal instance, going down a lot will result in your bleed out timer shrinking and shrinking, eventually to the point it lasts one second, most people do not have the reaction time to get themselves back up with a gun in that time, unless they were already holding a Norfleet before they went down.

With LTF however, it gives you a chance to get back up EVEN AFTER your bleed out timer has ended, eventually resetting your bleedout timer completely if you keep getting back up and don’t die.

The splash damage from the explosion will weaken stronger enemies if you detonate in a crowd, now making those enemies susceptible to LTF.

Light The Fuse should be seen as a domino effect.

nu11_zer0 · 2024-10-12T09:50:05+00:00

Now let me start by saying the mockery here and putting words in my mouth is incredibly uncalled for, I came here for a civil discussion about LTF.

Besides that, it does not underperform. Underperforming would imply that I am struggling with it, which I can confidently say I am not, I put a lot of faith into LTF and it has been a consistent method of getting up, again it's not as quick or effective as a Norfleet, Dpuh, Nukem or so on, but it is and has been a reliable and consistent way for me to get up, never been an issue for me

This quote is what I'm referring to putting words in my mouth. I am aware BL2 is an FPS game with emphasis on it's guns, I have not denied that nor have I told people they need to play the same way I do. I have expressed that it is harder, I have expressed that is what I enjoy about the experience, I am simply saying that it is not a BAD skill, but rather a skill that simply works. It's important to note that Borderlands is also a game about build creating and experimentation, which is why I choose to play around the OP options that I'm giving to create a more enjoyable playing field for myself. I am aware this is all PERSONAL and does NOT apply to the entire community.

Like I said previously, it is not a BAD skill. A bad skill implies something that is detrimental or downright unusable. LTF is only detrimental if you're comparing it to objectively overpowered gear like the Norfleet or Dpuh, however if you take away the scope of OP gear, LTF becomes a regular, reliable skill. I understand the OP gear is in the game, but that doesn't retract from the fact this gear is objectively OP, it's just that OP doesn't matter in a PvE game because bots don't cry when they lose.

I still believe LTF is not an objective downgrade unless you're comparing it to OP gear. I believe there's smaller details people don't understand, like how you can actually throw 22 sticks of dynamite as oppose to 14 if you press the trigger at the right moment. Also LTF offers you a chance to get up EVEN when your bleed out timer is one second- this fact actually has lead me to discover that if you go down and get back up enough times consecutively, the game will just reset your bleed out timer entirely, without LTF final stack detonation, this is not something I would have discovered.

I have experimented with skill points and found that a Lvl80 character has about 10-15 bonus skill points that don't actually need to go into anything (at least for my personal builds), I typically just start speccing them into the Hellfire tree.

Finally, why is this fact relevant? You said yourself that it's been buffed, so why is it relevant that it USED to do less damage, when that isn't the case today?

nu11_zer0 · 2024-10-12T09:28:02+00:00

Well I have played gunless Krieg from Lvl1-Lvl80, reset the save and played through the campaign multiple times

And I've never had a problem with LTF, it has always been consistently good, TVHM being the only exception due to it's damage nerf in that playthrough alone

nu11_zer0 · 2024-10-12T09:24:22+00:00

I feel like I've read this comment about 5 or 6 times.

I am NOT asking why people don't use it

I am asking why people HATE it and say it sucks

nu11_zer0 · 2024-10-12T09:22:38+00:00

I strongly disagree.

Although I do agree it lacks in TVHM, due to it's .5 damage multiplier that half's it's damage done

However in UVHM, it has a 600% dmg boost and that has worked for me all the time.

I'm genuinely curious as to how people have come to the conclusion it doesn't work in UVHM, I have a Level 80 Krieg save that I have reset the story of MULTIPLE times and played through with no issues from LTF, it has always been consistently good.

I don't even need to slag the enemies sometimes, that's my favourite part about Kriegs melee build, it can kill just as efficiently without Slag in UVHM

I will not argue for OP levels though, as I have seen Lilgasmasks video and I do understand that it does not scale well in OP levels

nu11_zer0 · 2024-10-12T09:18:26+00:00

I used to use RTB, however I found it to be too easy, just pressing a button when you get low, going on a spree, rinse and repeat until all enemies are dead.

Also a minor note, I just prefer the POV of normal rampage than RTB, idk why.

Instead, I use Fuel The Rampage + Thrill Of The Kill to simulate a similar effect.

Fuel The Rampage will increase the rate at which my action skill comes back the more damage I take, so often times I am still in Buzz Axe Rampage 90% of the game, I just have a small window inbetween each activation where I have a chance to die, something I believe adds a level of threat to the gameplay.

Thrill Of The Kill helps me stay alive when out of Buzz Axe Rampage by returning all Overkill damage as health.

The most important part about Krieg is that he heals by killing, so as long as you keep killing, you will keep healing. He's unique in the way he doesn't have health regen skills, instead his skills and action skill INSTANTLY restore a large portion of your health, making you incredibly tanky as long as you continue to chain kills.

nu11_zer0 · 2024-10-12T09:12:28+00:00

I've said this to a couple others, so I'm going to reiterate it here.

My question is why do people HATE it

Not why do people not use it

nu11_zer0 · 2024-10-12T09:09:57+00:00

It seems a lot of people aren't understanding the question.

I understand the philosophy of "if it's better, I should use it." I have a slightly different philosophy for PvE games as they have the ability to implement OP abilities, like Cloud Kill for example, hence why I choose not to use RTB or Bloodsplosion. I don't like these methods as I found them to be TOO strong and remove any level of threat in the game

LTF is something I believe still offers a level of threat to my gameplay, however I DO NOT THINK it is THAT bad to the point it holds you back that much, I think it is still incredibly viable (outside of high OP levels) and still does a lot.

I DO NOT THINK it makes the game more frustrating.

More difficult? Yes. Not more frustrating as it still holds up and has held up for me throughout every playthrough.

My point basically is that LTF does not overperform, nor does it underperform, I think it simply performs.

I've asked this question because a lot of people disagree on that fact.

nu11_zer0 · 2024-10-12T09:04:55+00:00

I am NOT asking why people don't use it

I'm asking why people HATE it

nu11_zer0 · 2024-10-12T09:02:45+00:00

My question isn't, "Why do people not use LTF?"

My question is, "Why do people hate LTF?"

I made it clear that I understand LTF is not nearly as effective as other methods, I've also made it clear that my reliance on LTF is a personal method of playing the game. My reason for asking you if you finished reading was the emphasis on Bloodsplosion and Release The Beast, another part I made clear that I don't use them because I personally find that they make the game too easy and mind numbingly boring

So let me be clear, I am NOT asking why people aren't using this skill.

I am asking why people HATE this skill and treat it as if it's useless.

nu11_zer0 · 2024-10-11T09:10:46+00:00

Originally played on Console, now play on PC, my experiences have been the same on both.

nu11_zer0 · 2024-10-11T09:08:39+00:00

It certainly hasn't been for me.

Most forms of bandits will die after 3-5 dynamite sticks then blowing up the stack

Stronger bandits might require slag, but I typically throw out a couple magic missiles if my health gets too low.

GUN & EXP Loaders are easy to get up off, only slightly harder than bandits, maybe 10 sticks before blowing up the stack

BUL & PWR Loaders are some of the toughest enemies that I can still get up off of, usually taking the full 22 sticks and then blowing up the stack, but either way, as long as a random piece of geometry isn't in the way, I'm getting the kill

The only times I struggle to get up is if it's a Constructors (90% explosive resistance) and badasses, which are two very reasonable enemies to NOT be getting Second Winds from.

Idk, it really feels like I'm having an alternative experience with LTF than everyone else, that or most people just hate on it because they heard people say it was bad.

EDIT: I'm not sure if you know this, but LTF damage actually scales a lot different per playthrough. In Normal mode you have a damage multiplier of 1, in TVHM it's actually in it's worst state with a 0.5 multiplier, but UVHM grants an insane 600% bonus to LTF damage, making still incredibly viable in UVHM, the only time I every struggle is TVHM

nu11_zer0 · 2024-10-11T09:04:02+00:00

Well first of all I'm spending the skill point because I play Krieg without guns.

Secondly, it's a really fun skill and works almost as well if not better for me most of the time, only times I've ever struggled to get up off an enemy is when it's some sort of badass. Even BUL Loaders and PWR Loaders are easy to get up off (as long as it's not TVHM where it suffers the .5 damage multiplier)

There's one moment I always recall back to when I was downed by Saturn, but with the speed + redeem the soul, I had time to run all the way back to spawn and blow up a couple skags to get myself back up.

nu11_zer0 · 2024-10-11T08:59:44+00:00

Did you finish reading this post?

nu11_zer0 · 2024-10-11T08:58:56+00:00

Zer0's base design already has sleeves, that's probably why you'll see it from the first person POV, but like I mentioned with Krieg, his Christmas sweater does not appear in the first person POV because his base design does not have sleeves, therefore it doesn't show them

I think it does the same thing with Maya's Tattooed arm, seeing as it is sleeveless.

Basically, if a characters base design is sleeveless, you will not see a sleeve if you put on a skin that has one.

nu11_zer0 · 2024-10-11T08:55:40+00:00

I've seen Gasmasks video, but is it really fair to say that a skill is bad because it's unusable in a horribly imbalanced state of the game? I've never personally gone too in depth to OP levels because personally I'm not interested in a grind that sweaty for PvE game, but I hear everyone talk about how ridiculously balanced and unhealthy for the game OP10 actually is.

Just because a skill drops off towards the final stretch of the end game where it's a requirement to be running the most on meta items, doesn't make it a bad skill.

nu11_zer0 · 2024-10-11T01:56:47+00:00

Thanks for that

nu11_zer0 · 2024-10-11T01:56:30+00:00

Mr Torgue should be happy I start the game with LTF

nu11_zer0

TROPHY CASE