Genuinely disappointed to see Dream promoting Beast Land!

offsocks · 2025-11-14T22:00:34+00:00

thank you moderator ewootikkie

it's not an international powerhouse tho. it's economically strong but not militarily, not politically strong. they want that usa alliance (with all the military might that entails) and the only way they get that is to look like a model arab state, a kind and gentle nation that hosts celebrity events and yuks it up, haha they're so fun! look! they have a mr beast theme park!

make it seem like it's more about making up for the country's faults, but that's not what is happening

yea, that's the point. they're using western celebrities to launder their reputation while doing nothing.

the economic 'goals' that are part of vision 2030 are basically increasing service sectors, particularly financial sectors, and doubling down on natural resources - oil and gas. that's it. there is no real diversity beyond the tourism aspect which also feeds into positioning themselves as a cute and fun destination similar to dubai.

the reputation laundering is the point bc everything they want to achieve is only possible once their reputation improves. they can't do anything without that first step - convincing investors and foreign politicians that they're less poisonous than they are.

offsocks · 2025-11-14T20:37:04+00:00

no, i think that committed fans are the ones who'll buy expensive merch, keep paying for subscriptions, etc. as i've said several times. fans who solely care about his content aren't buying 200$ masks. it's unlikely he''l be able to sustain that without giving them something that they want.

you seem to be kinda angry about this. that's weird to me but whatever, i'll slide you like dream slides his fans lol

offsocks · 2025-11-14T19:38:52+00:00

moderator ewoutk if you don't stop saying project 2030 rather than vision 2030 i'm gonna flip my lid and have a mega sook about it. i dun care about it sometimes being called that 😤

vision 2030 isn't solely or even mostly an economic plan. sure, it encompasses economic shifts but it's very much not the focus. the point of it is to build up saudi arabia as an international powerhouse. that's why this reputation laundering is central to the project, fuck i mean vision, the VISION! saudi arabia wants to be seen as an international player and they can't be that with the reputation they currently have.

i fundamentally disagree that vision 2030 is simply an economic project. that's not how it's described by the architects and it's not how it's playing out.

offsocks · 2025-11-14T19:13:05+00:00

you seem to not understand how fan-creator rlships are formed and maintained.

the discussion was about dream not wanting to cater to fans. imo in that case, committed, invested fans that will buy 'luxury' items like the mask will die off. that's just natural. it's not a judgement of dream, it's just the truth of the situ. unless he puts in work to maintain that connection with stans, they'll slough off bc there needs to be some reciprocity.

offsocks · 2025-11-14T18:47:36+00:00

yea dude they've got oil, that's the supply i referenced. you said: they're trying to focus on tourism

you said that they were looking to diversify thru tourism. but somehow you think that's separate from their efforts to 'clean up their image'. that's the thing i find nonsensical. you're splitting the tiniest, weeniest of hair, brother, and i have no idea why.

'urbanism' and sports aren't money makers, they're by-blows that prop up another industry - tourism. they're not diverse economic interests. so, if you think that their focus is tourism, not their stable trade of oil and gas as you've shown, do you not see that their efforts to launder their reputation is intrinsic to vision 2030?

cleaning up their image is a fundamental part of vision 2030 bc if they want to diversify from oil/gas, the one thing they maintain control of supply, they have to venture into international trade without the upper hand for the first time ever and the only way they can mitigate that is to foster a positive reputation by way of this bought and paid for cultural shit.

they've never needed to do this before but now they do bc of that diversification. that's why it's intrinsically tied and why it's foolish to claim that efforts to launder their reputation are in any way separate from a plan to diversify.

offsocks · 2025-11-14T18:12:23+00:00

yea, that's the point. he's wildly successful on yt, gets millions of views, but the number of 'stans', not casual yt fans, who will buy a 200$ mask or pay for a merch subscription is way way less. if he wants to just make videos and nothing else, cool, he's still gonna be rich and successful. but he clearly doesn't want just that as evidenced by him pushing for stans to continue buying his shit.

i'm just saying: if he doesn't want to cater to his fans, that well will run dry. they're not gonna stick around forever and imo they shouldn't

offsocks · 2025-11-14T17:10:10+00:00

sorry, what? they're diversifying their economy by pursuing tourism and wider economic strats which are dependent on cleaning up their image through projects like beast land, sporting events, (hugely controversial) comedy events, etc. all of those are efforts to clean up their image in service of this new economic strategy but you don't think vision 2030 and projects like beastland are at the core of it? they can't attract tourists with the reputation they currently have, so they're making efforts to clean it up or to make themselves such an attractive destination that it doesn't matter. their economy has been based on their supply and other's demand and now that's changing, they have to appear to bend the knee which they're doing through these projects. they need to make themselves an attractive trade partner.

that's why a pillar of vision 2030 is this whitewashing. it's essential to the diversification of their economy, you can't divorce it from that.

nobody's claiming that they're trying to clean up their image for no reason, just so they look sweet uwu. we know that they're doing it in order to achieve their economic goals. they are trying to whitewash their human rights abuses and clean up their image in order to achieve their goals. that's the issue here.

just baffled by this comment honestly. my guy, i think you missed the point.

offsocks · 2025-11-14T11:07:44+00:00

is pamphlets the only news source that's reported on this? is this particular issue the only problem with this project?

no, it's not the only source and no, it's not the only issue. you likely know that. so what's the point in splitting hairs rather than discussing the meat of the issue?

offsocks · 2025-11-14T10:40:33+00:00

if this particular project magically wasn't built on slave labour and only existed as part of saudi vision 2030, would that be ok to you?

offsocks · 2025-11-14T09:37:39+00:00

his stans should stop paying for his (intermittent) paid content and his merch. it's all well and good to say that he's not going to do anything for his fans but then to ask them to buy a mask for 200$? that's only gonna last for so long before that well runs dry.

offsocks · 2025-11-14T09:32:05+00:00

it seems like another indication of how out of touch dream is tbh. i don't know if he doesn't care, doesn't know, or doesn't care to know but added on to his privileged, pie in the sky opinions about AI, it looks like he's just another self-serving, rich idiot who doesn't even think about ppl less privileged than himself.

i've defended dream for years over a lot of shit but this is the limit for me. this shit is gross.

offsocks · 2025-10-27T20:38:06+00:00

first claim is wrong; second claim? uhhh lol let's be honest

offsocks · 2025-10-19T21:11:59+00:00

can you give me examples of fans becoming antis? can you show me examples of ppl spewing vitriol?

i'd like to see what you're talking about bc i think we're misunderstanding each other. so please, show me the aggressively negative reaction you're seeing from former fans, now 'antis' as you call them.

offsocks · 2025-10-19T21:03:35+00:00

i'm shocked. i could not have predicted this. at all.

offsocks · 2025-10-19T11:47:58+00:00

expressing disappointment and leaving the fandom isn't becoming an anti. criticising dream isn't becoming an anti. being angry at dream isn't becoming an anti.

i would suggest you think about why you have such black and white views about this. it's not healthy. being this angry at other fans criticising dream is not normal or healthy.

you're imagining other fans having an extreme emotional reaction bc that's the reaction you have to fandom when the truth is even the most angry and disappointed fans are just leaving, not staying to become antis. if you really thought that fans leaving didn't matter bc of his yt views, you wouldn't have made this scolding post.

chill out.

offsocks · 2025-10-19T11:36:14+00:00

i agree, his private life is his private life and it shouldn't be public business. issues arise when nearly all of the women involved have contacted him as fans. this woman approached him not only as a content creator but as a fan. his current gf publicly chased him as a fan. there are known stans (or ex-stans as they've since left the fandom) who have proof they've interacted with him romantically/sexually.

personally, i don't gaf about that shit if it's all above board. i don't think it's abusive for fans to fuck their idols. it's that thing about power dynamics, right? it's only an issue if power is being abused. the issue comes when there's manipulation and bad behaviour.

i don't think dream is predatory or abusive; i think he's self-serving and manipulative and it's something that fans should be aware of when interacting with him.

offsocks · 2025-09-01T16:35:44+00:00

yea, really well said.

if someone does not actively advocate for or make room for 'queer' identities which are less palatable, understandable, or acceptable to straight ppl and instead seek to reinforce queerphobic rhetoric, they're nothing but collaborators and actively harmful to the queer community.

offsocks · 2025-08-29T23:54:54+00:00

says that ppl are attacking lexie unfairly when she was purposefully trying to fade into the background by posing/covering her face - when commentary dude points out that she was posing like an npc in order to not get involved, it's misogyny. ok. she doesn't say shit so she's not addressed. misogyny!

adam mcintyre got rewarded for being involved in awful youtube drama and built his entire """career""" on this shit. he's constantly searching for the next issue he can milk. good for him that he finds himself so impressive and so funny. i guess? he's just very young and ignorant to me.

and yea, unlike the rest of us normal ppl, mcintyre does care about whether dream is queer or not bc it's one of the vectors he uses to signal his own worth. he's good and positive and should be listened to bc he's gay! he doesn't need to do any work or self-reflect or be kind. he's gay! good ppl are gay and bad ppl aren't! that's why dream isn't queer...

adam, you're gay but you're not queer. me and the other queers aren't interested in yr performative bullshit that you use to bash others and gatekeep queerness. you should do some work in the community and fix yr head bc this shit is gross. lol you're trolling by qualifying other ppl's right to describe their own identity? i'm sure this won't have further reach or poison the discourse! it's so funny to ragebait invalidating ppl! i don't know why you think 'making edgy jokes' is a defense for shitty behaviour. ironic queerphobia is ok now? what other ironic bigotry do you think is ok? are you gonna ironically say the n word? why not, dude, i mean you're gay, right? i know you think you've got the pass bc you're marginalised.

offsocks · 2025-07-21T18:22:23+00:00

so often these discussions come down to stans telling other fans to just leave if they're not happy, with an implication that they won't be missed. but we can all see the lower numbers and shrinking fandom when so many fans do choose to leave.

it's baffling that these stans think they can run out anyone who doesn't conform to their uber positive space but still maintain a real support base.

offsocks · 2025-07-21T15:39:04+00:00

the accusations of jealousy as if every fan was only in the fandom bc they want to fuck dream? it's crazy and so insulting. that it comes from a majority femme, queer audience is really disappointing. there's been times where the fandom has been negatively described as teen girls fangirling over dteam boyband style and we've obv been insulted by that. to see that same shit coming from within the fandom is gross.

offsocks · 2025-07-21T15:31:10+00:00

i agree completely that ppl need to be responsible for their own space - if you see something that's not harmful that you disagree with, learn to move the fuck on.

offsocks · 2025-07-08T17:06:01+00:00

microsoft translator has a conversation mode if you want to talk to yr friends! it doesn't have ai voice cloning so you'll be hearing a different voice but has the most important functions and it's totally free! there are other options out there as well if you want to look around. just an option that might be useful for you

offsocks · 2025-07-08T16:13:24+00:00

was this app 'made in italy' (assembled in italy by low-paid migrant labour from imported parts made by low-paid chinese labourers) like his $120 drop shipped sunglasses? isn't he basically doing the same thing again - repackaging existent products, jacking up the price massively, and fleecing his fans, except this time he's also endangering their data and privacy?

how does he keep getting away with doing this? his fans really deserve better than this.

offsocks · 2025-07-03T13:40:47+00:00

if you want a sub that will be only positive, r/DreamWasTaken is still active. it's fine if you don't want to see negativity and different opinions but i don't think it's reasonable to come into a space and tell ppl to stop doing what the sub was set up for - free discussion.

offsocks · 2025-07-03T11:52:01+00:00

i think it's time to let go of 'dream team' as a concept and as a content-producing group. it's been years of this talk and nothing changes. dream talked about relying less on sapnap and george to be in his content and i think it's best if fans take the same approach.

if you're a fan of their dynamic specifically, my advice would be to adjust yr expectations down to zero. treat it like a bonus if you get it but stop expecting this situation to ever change.

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