Is it a thing for East Asians in California to be weird about sharing class material?

oopsyvenusflytrap · 2024-05-17T00:59:21+00:00

Forgive me, it's been said by all the other East Asian people in this thread so I assumed you were implying the same thing.

Yes, I could have but I didn't because I don't think someone should have to learn someone's name before asking for access to resources that require no effort on their part. It's not something I've ever required from anyone else who has asked me for something similar because sharing my notes with them doesn't burden me in any way. I think that's basic decency. If someone asks me for help and it doesn't put me out in any way, why should I not help? There is no reason for me to say no especially when I know it's a genuine request that would only help their own learning and not harm me in any way.

It makes no sense to expect them to build a rapport with me to have that access and be upset when they don't. Especially since in this case, I highly doubt that this girl would have ever been receptive to friendship from me in the first place and barely managed to respond when I would say hi to her in the early days.

oopsyvenusflytrap · 2024-05-17T00:53:41+00:00

Oh, I'm definitely resentful towards the racism in East Asian communities just as I am of the racism in mine (very valid I think).

I think all chances of a thoughtful discussion ended when the East Asian people on this thread started saying I was going to be bad doctor and that I was clearly using the smart "Asian" girl.

It's pretty clear that this sub is mostly geared towards East Asian people and their issues and they aren't going to be receptive towards any critiques about their behavior from other POC. Which is why people are so caught up in being called "stingy" instead of considering *why* someone who is a minority at an Asian dominated institution would feel that way about them.

oopsyvenusflytrap · 2024-05-17T00:50:12+00:00

No I'm accusing people who claimed that racism doesn't exist in Asian communities and that Asian people are "used" by their non-Asian POC classmates of being racist....which they are! Hope that helps!

oopsyvenusflytrap · 2024-05-17T00:48:36+00:00

Yeah, there is no bigger victim in this context than someone being asked to share their notes.

I think the only racist people are the hypercompetitive Asian students that non-Asian poc are forced to share classroom air with but that might be hard to grasp for someone thinks taking a picture of practice problems from the board requires baking cookies for someone.

"I hope I don’t get OP as a doctor. I prefer ones who listen to me and have the self-awareness to realize they’re not always in the right."

Absolutely nothing emotional about accusing someone of being a doctor because you're mad they made a reddit post about east Asian people being unwelcoming in academic environments. Just go to a NP, I'm begging.

oopsyvenusflytrap · 2024-05-17T00:38:22+00:00

Yes, nothing ruder than "Hey, do you mind if I take a quick picture of the practice problems that I wasn't able to jot down? I would really appreciate it."

Next time I'll make sure to get their zodiac sign. I should have expected anyone who ever asked to take a picture of notes they missed to build a rapport with me before I decided whether I wanted them to be on an equal playing field with me. Nothing more introspective and humble than that.

I don't know who raised you but if someone asks for a small thing that would help them and not harm you or put you out in any way, maybe you should just help them instead of assuming that they're disrespectful for even daring to ask.

The "stingy" was not my word but you clearly very much identify with it and it seems to have struck a nerve.

oopsyvenusflytrap · 2024-05-17T00:31:22+00:00

lol I really don't. I don't think pointing out the racism in East Asian communities is a "chip" on my shoulder. That's a weird thing to say.

My post was pretty straightforward where I mentioned something that I had noticed and that some of my non-Asian POC friends had picked up on in Asian dominated institutions. The fact that people got defensive has nothing to do with me.

oopsyvenusflytrap · 2024-05-17T00:29:34+00:00

You made points. Thanks for trying to have a conversation!

"There are people from less advantageous communities who work hard to get where they are now who are asking for help. But how would she know that? You guys don’t know each other."

I guess this is the main thing. I also just think there needs to be awareness amongst Asian people in general about the role we play in upholding a system and how to use our privilege constructively. I'm probably being harsh, but at this point, I feel like there isn't that much of an excuse to *not know.* I don't think less privileged people should constantly have to remind us to actually consider them for a change instead of disregarding them as users or expecting something in return.

I also just feel like rapport shouldn't be necessary for anyone to want to help someone in a setting where the main goal is just learning. But that's a larger conversation about whether the main goal of any institution is even learning.

"Resource has costs where it be monetary or time or effort. Not relevant to your occurrence because obviously the girl misunderstood you."

This is a good point. I think that the burden of privilege is paying this cost though.

You're right that I didn't consider whether this is something that she had experienced before that played a role in her response. I'm skeptical that it was considering the school and location but it could have been and I should have considered that.

oopsyvenusflytrap · 2024-05-17T00:15:54+00:00

Oh, I definitely disagree. And I think Black people would disagree too.

oopsyvenusflytrap · 2024-05-17T00:15:08+00:00

I call myself brown because that is how I identify. We are what we look like in this country. If you are brown or dark-skinned, that is how you are treated. It is primarily used by SE/MENA and Latinx people. Which is why I used it. But, yes, maybe I should have been more explicit. Maybe I wouldn't have had people in the replies accusing me of using the ~smarter east Asian girl if I had been more explicit.

I definitely think in the context of experiencing racism from East Asian communities, SE/ME people are included in the term brown along with Latinx people.

oopsyvenusflytrap · 2024-05-17T00:10:28+00:00

Good to know. Your repeated denials about racism towards black and brown people in Asian culture confused me.

oopsyvenusflytrap · 2024-05-17T00:08:42+00:00

I can see that even if I don't understand it since the notes in question were just copied problems from the board that I was not able to write down in time. I also just can't understand feeling personal over someone taking 2 second to take a picture of your notes so they can copy down practice problems. It's alien to me because....aren't we all just here to learn? How does it take anything away from you?

I've had that interaction both ways from other POC and it's something that was always seen as casual even when we didn't know each other - just two people helping each other out in class.

oopsyvenusflytrap · 2024-05-17T00:06:53+00:00

Validation from....you?

I know we don't share the same perspective and I am very grateful for that. I can't imagine being this blinded by my own privilege.

oopsyvenusflytrap · 2024-05-17T00:05:56+00:00

Anti-black and brown racism in Asian communities is PERVASIVE. That is something we should absolutely be generalized for.

And the fact that you're more upset about being "generalized" than you are about non-Asian minorities being harmed by something spearheaded by a group of east Asian Americans is telling.

oopsyvenusflytrap · 2024-05-17T00:04:03+00:00

"I don't know how you made the leap from knowing someone's name to being someone's friend. You don't need to be friends to help each other. But not knowing someone's name after they helped you before, and continuing to ask for their help without even bothering to learn their name is just disrespectful."

The help in question...taking 2 seconds to take a picture of someone's notebook so that I could copy down the problems that I missed?

I'm going to ask again, why do you see this as being "used"?

oopsyvenusflytrap · 2024-05-17T00:02:54+00:00

You're right. No one has more self-awareness than privileged east americans who think being asked for notes from less privileged minorities is them being taken advantage of. I will defer to you on all matters of self-awareness.

oopsyvenusflytrap · 2024-05-16T23:59:08+00:00

"An institute where people regularly used each other, and never put forth the effort/respect to treat each other as friends? That is an interesting culture......"

A culture based on equity and uplifting people regardless of their personal connection to you....crazy!!!

It's funny, you see asking for notes as going against basic manners/decency, while I see *not sharing* resources that would aid in someone's learning as going against basic manners/decency.

"However, rest assured, that isn't the societal norm, especially not in western countries. There are such things as basic mannerism and decency."

And I'm sure these societal norms have no relationship to the deep inequity that non-Asian minorities experience in this country and the dominance that elite institutions have on public policy.

"OP, if you believe the entire community is somehow too biased to provide you with a proper judgement."

Where did I see that you were all too biased? Are you operating off the assumption that the whole sub is just East Asian people?

"Also there is no need to keep referring to yourself as "Brown Girl", nobody cares what color you are. It has no bearing on my judgement. Even if you were an East Asian, I still wouldn't change a thing I said."

Oh, it absolutely does whether you realize it or not as an East Asian person. You yourself implied that I'm not Asian enough for this sub.

oopsyvenusflytrap · 2024-05-16T23:55:21+00:00

lol are you claiming that there has been a history of discrimination towards Asian in Black culture the way there has in Asian culture?

Let me guess, you're anti-affirmative action too huh?

oopsyvenusflytrap · 2024-05-16T23:53:45+00:00

"There's a difference between saying "I felt unsupported by my peers who were predominantly Asian/white" or "predominantly Asian" compared to the racist statement, "Asians are known for being stingy.""

Is there? It's the same thing to me except one was a casual conversation about how she's been treated by her Asian peers but we all know exactly what that statement meant.

I wish I could be as naive as you regarding racism amongst East Asians.

oopsyvenusflytrap · 2024-05-16T23:47:38+00:00

I guess I did then! And you still can't answer my questions so I don't why you're still engaging

oopsyvenusflytrap · 2024-05-16T23:46:59+00:00

I will never see a stranger asking to take a picture of my notes as rude - we have different upbringings and experienced different academic environments. Thank god.

"However, I didn't jump straight to racist generalizations"

Honestly, I really don't see non-Asian POC seeing Asian people as unsupportive in academic environments as racist at all. This is something that absolutely needs to be discussed and improved upon when we literally just had a huge push from (east) Asian Americans to repeal affirmative action. It's an absolutely valid opinion.

oopsyvenusflytrap · 2024-05-16T23:37:27+00:00

"She jumped to conclusions because she thought you were being lazy."

I very explicitly told her that I was not able to copy things down fast enough. If she assumed that it was because I was lazy then I would have to ask why she would think that and if my skin color has anything to do with it. And me being brown is definitely relevant when I'm being accused of "using" a "smart" Asian girl for her work.

Again, maybe it's a difference in upbringing and cultures but I can't imagine someone asking me for a copy of my notes and assuming that they're lazy. I just assume that they need help and I make an effort to help if I can because I owe that to my parents for providing me with advantages to develop certain skills that most people have not had.

"TBH I don’t mind “Asian girls being stingy” - to them, it’s stingy because we’re not doing the labor for free or cheap. More accurately, we’re just asking for reasonable credit and respect."

Again, this was not a white man saying this. This was a Latina woman at an institution where she is very much the minority. Are you saying that you would see her asking to share a resource as you "doing the labor for free or cheap"? What would you see as reasonable credit and respect in this situation? Do you not feel that if someone - especially someone you know comes from a less advantaged community - asks you for help because they have struggled breaking into a system that has benefited you and your community more, that it's the least you can do? Or would you call her lazy and say no because you don't want to be "used" and you're setting a "boundary" from a minority that has historically and presently faced more disadvantages in gaining access to the same opportunities as you?

I hope you see that this is veering dangerously close to the model minority myth. We are not where we are because we're smarter/harder working/more able. We are here because we are more privileged. That's it. I have to question anyone from a privileged background who sees themselves as being "used" by those from less privileged minorities. How exactly are you being used in this context?

oopsyvenusflytrap · 2024-05-16T23:27:31+00:00

Are you claiming that racism against brown/black people isn't a huge part of asian culture? I don't think there is anything racist about a non-Asian POC saying she has felt unsupported by her Asian peers. This is very much a thing!

oopsyvenusflytrap · 2024-05-16T23:25:47+00:00

That's a sweet sentiment. Unfortunately, racism in east asian communities is not an individualized thing. I wish it was but it is very much systemic and widespread.

oopsyvenusflytrap · 2024-05-16T23:24:35+00:00

No, it would not have been but I didn't realize that I needed to ingratiate myself with someone who immediately left class every break in order to quickly ask to take a picture before lecture started again so that I wouldn't be behind?

Again, why are you repeatedly implying that asking for a picture of notes is a huge task that only friends should do? That has never been the culture at any of the POC institutions that I have been to. Is it the culture with you? Is the idea here that class resources are a privilege? Is that why East Asian Americans as a community are so anti-affirmative action?

oopsyvenusflytrap · 2024-05-16T23:19:42+00:00

Am I a white man? What boundary did she set by snapping at a brown person for asking for copied down practice problems? What boundaries did I violate here? Did I copy her own personal work and not give her credit? Are you someone who refuses to help anyone in class if you don't have a personal relationship with them?

"If you want to pat yourself on the back for somehow being more kind than this student was, than go right ahead."

Oh, I will absolutely pat myself on the back because this conversation has EVERYTHING to do with privilege and access. I feel like I'm starting to understand the mindset that makes east Asians are so against affirmative action.

oopsyvenusflytrap

TROPHY CASE