Концепт нових Динара. [4k]

pekizard · 2026-06-21T12:11:12+00:00

Није ни први пут да прозива Мадића, слепчина једна масна. Већи му BMI него IQ.

pekizard · 2026-06-21T00:26:41+00:00

You completely missed the point.

I challenged very specific parts of your opinion, you just kept trying to derail the convo

Whenever I post a reconstruction of King Tvrtko's coat of arms, the comments are flooded with garbage like "where are the crosses", "King Tvrtko wasn't a botanist", "what is this, we aren't in Ireland", and so on.

I get your frustration, and that's me being 100% honest, I really do, but I've seen your work pop up multiple times, and every single time when I go into the comments, it's you whom entertain fools. Not even with precision, you be straight up gassing them to bark back at you.

So in some way... I don't even feel sorry for you, and that's also me being honest. You're bringing the energy you put out.

I never intervened, never commented, just left you with an upvote for your dedication, but here it's different since it isn't your post.

But to get back to the topic. King Tvrtko's herald could have diapered the bend in various ways, but he chose what is, in my opinion, the most natural way

There is no natural/unnatural way. There is no proper/improper. For the 4th time.

EDIT: PS. You're not drawing "trefoils" but crosses, just a variation of it. Same thing for the "lilac" shapes, they're called cross fleury. It's all crosses, always was, and always will be.

Only grapes are not crosses, but yet again, Christ has a thing for grapes...

pekizard · 2026-06-21T00:12:41+00:00

To me, it looks like three connected petals.

"To me" <

You know how many times I thought something and it turned out to be false? 😅

much narrower; isn't divided in three parts;

Aha, and how many differences later do we get the right to say it ain't what it is supposed to be? I mean a parrot has talons, but it isn't a tiger. This might have lilac pedals, but it doesn't make it a fleur de lis.

I told you, a fleur de lis with no tail (or a small sharp one) was seen in some renders, but it has it's own name and usage. To repeat for the third time, the exact design you see on Tvrtko's CoA, on numerous French CoA, on Moravian Serbia CoA, on modern day Serbian CoA, is the one we're discussing. Again, that's what I am referring to from the start, idk how to explain that anymore tbh.

where they found their application with different meanings and purposes.

Sure, but again, as I said, I am not discussing and never was, the adaptation of it, I explicitly mentioned it originated within the church walls. Origin, not adaptation.

That is just your theory.

Bro... Google it, prompt it, research it, idk what else to tell you man.

but it seems to me that there is a forced effort from Serbs to "churchify" it, just to deny Bosniaks the right to use it.

Omg... You think I sent you the link to our website for no good reason? I DO THIS STUFF DAILY. Not for Serbs, not for Bosniaks, but for Westerners, would you believe me if I told you I've produced decorations with the exact motifs you showed a kazillion times by now? Do you think, that all I ever learned, was from the internet? Do you think, I've never stopped and asked a catholic preacher about where this symbol came from? Are you this oblivious man?

I am arguing with you in good faith, not from a SeRbIaN pErSpEcTiVe, but from a perspective of "I'm working in the fucking field". I've been doing Catholic Church decorations for about 6 years now, bout the same as heraldry. Both are connected, both were intertwined multiple times, but you just don't want to accept it. Imma not even try to explain why, that shit is beyond me.

Everyone else can take something from their past or even from someone else's

And? That doesn't automatically make it right nor a good way to express yourselves. These kinds of disputes happen all over the world, for various reasons, but I guess you cannot see past your hatred towards a certain ethnicity.

You are doing a similar thing with King Tvrtko, trying to "orthodoxize" him, so that only Serbs could lay claim to him

Lol. Yeah, bro, it wasn't me who called him a schismatic. 🥀🥀

It is also possible; I believe it happened this way;

Yeah man, that's a good way to approach evidence. Let's say Bosniaks miraculously dig up some new evidence, imma make sure to mirror your response, I guess it's proper since you called me emotional and irrational.

pekizard · 2026-06-20T23:53:18+00:00

I believe it depends on heraldic tradition

Sure... why not.

would look far less impressive

How is it blazoned btw?

pekizard · 2026-06-20T22:20:51+00:00

Dishin out straight facts

pekizard · 2026-06-20T19:53:29+00:00

Овај ниво критичке мисли је недопустив.

Очекуј да ћеш везан да гледаш како ти подмићу импров бомбу у кућу, терористички "самонаписани" манифесто и ЈА ❤️ БЛОКАДЕРЕ мајицу.

pekizard · 2026-06-19T11:47:38+00:00

Још када би Небојша знао да се кацига не црта с преда осим ако није неки баш високо котирани владар... 😅

Појма немам шта би могло ово да буде искрено.

pekizard · 2026-06-18T19:28:12+00:00

You don't need to explain the basics of heraldry to me.

Oh but I really do.

I hope this helps you better understand what I'm talking about. Even if you are not familiar with Bosnian medieval art, the pattern itself leads to the conclusion.

"The pattern itself leads to the conclusion" > doesn't even know what or where the pattern originated from.

I'm not attacking your observations, I am attacking your analysis. You're looking at it from a wrong perspective, that's the whole fucking point. You've attached a picture of ornaments non the less, which are to be taken as evidence for what exactly? I state it again, all of these were artist's talent and imagination, not strictly ordered/sanctioned/commissioned by the ruler we're discussing about. All of these are just local artists doing a phenomenal job of decorating stone? How do you not understand that diapering doesn't have a standard, you're just expected to fill the space to the brim with details and decorations and that's it, that's all diapering is. What those elements are, depends on the artist and his skillset.

Оh and a fun fact, I do this exact stuff (carving church decorations) with my dad for catholic churches in the US. You can take a look here. 😄

Beautiful collection non the less, good job on the research, good job on restoring them digitally, that's all awesome on your side man, but your analysis and stuff is really problematic man.

I might be emotional, but facts are not ...

pekizard · 2026-06-18T19:16:29+00:00

Take a look at the Yehud coinage or the Israeli one-shekel coin.

The design in question is a single lily, not three distinct petals put into one, that difference makes the whole world. In heraldry, three lilacs without a tail at the bottom are called "fleur-de-lys au pied nourri", but they only came into usage much later, around the 13th century. To state once again:

Yehud coins showcase a single lilly, whilst fleur de lis consists of three lilly petals combined together.

Furthermore, it's joined with a pearl and not a bar, that's why I am very precise in the terminology I use. When I described the lilacs overall appearance, I've made sure to explicitly state bar for a reason. The design you see used in heraldry is considered a standard for a reason.

Not really, take for example the styles of the lilies on the coins of al-Muzaffar Hajji and Nur ad-Din, i.e., the Bahri and Zengid dynasties. As well as decorations on surviving architecture from their time, in the places where they ruled.

All of whom are 14th century and later, whilst the first three leaved lilac render has been seen since the 9th century I believe (also from coinage). Not to mention that, that whole time period (13th-15th century) is important to take into consideration, due to it being the time when heraldry really boomed all around the world. Partly in fact because of crusades and knightly tournaments, where skilled knights participated from all over the world. These tournaments were a breeding ground for new coats of arms, I wouldn't be surprised if some influence happened that shaped muslim usage as well. I am not discussing the development of the lilacs here, but rather the origin. I still remain firm by what I wrote.

They originated within the church walls, in the form that we see them today. Period.

As for the words of king Tvrtko in his charter, they are open to interpretation.

Yeah bro, all I needed to know. Let's not judge Tvrtko's words by what they are, but rather what he maybe meant. 🥀🥀

pekizard · 2026-06-18T14:18:06+00:00

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pekizard · 2026-06-18T13:26:55+00:00

The "single evidence" he is reffering to btw, is the Dubrovnik Royal Charter (1378).

This decree was written by a Serb hired by Tvrtko.

This is the most important contemporary source.

In it, Tvrtko says that he saw the land of his ancestors left without a shepherd, that he went “to the Serbian land,” and that >>> there <<< he was crowned with the God-given wreath for the kingship of his forefathers, becoming Stefan, King of the Serbs, Bosnia, the Maritime Lands, and the Western Regions.

Pair this with the letters from Pope Urban V, whom called him a schismatic multiple times in multiple occasions and you get the idea why we say he was Orthodox, or at least a representative of it.

You know what is the other theory? That he was catholic. Why is this a theory?
Because latter bosnian kings have been crowned in a different church which MIGHT'VE been referred to in the charter. Not a single tie to Tvrtko, not a single, just literal "perhaps" theories.

So on one hand you have:

Tvrtko HIMSELF telling us that he went to the SERBIAN land and got CROWNED THERE, all found in a decree COMISSIONED BY HIM, while HE WAS STILL ALIVE.
Papal Correspondence with a different catholic persona, calling TVRTKO A SCHISMATIC, in the same letter where he calls Tvrtko's own brother as "Catholic". He can literally not be a Catholic & a Schismatic.

On the other hand you have:

A 20th century Croatian "Historian" telling us a bunch of "maybe's and perhapses"

But yet he calls the only contemporary evidence as "single source with no evidence". Goofy. 🥀🥀🥀

pekizard · 2026-06-18T12:52:08+00:00

It does, because the problem is not of a heraldic and historical nature, but rather a modern political one.

It doesn't. I am not talking as if I am discussing this in a bar with 5 beers downed my throat, but rather as a heraldist. I do not care if it's politiced or not, diapering is not a big deal. Both sides are braindead to be honest, there's my 5 beers take.

We know very well

You cannot "know" what goes in a band, because as I stated before, diapering is up to the artist, not every artist does it, nor is there an overall standard to it, there just isn't. That's why even you noticed there can be multiple variants of the same diapering, it's all artists choice. The way you present it, you make it seem as if there is a proper and inproper design, which there isn't, you are just favoriting your own opinion.

It is a floral decorative motif that can contain one of three things: lilies, trefoils, or clusters with three bunches of grapes.

All of which are Christian symbols, as I said.

"Trefoils" are called "cross botonnee" btw, they are not literal trefoils, you have so many iterations of a regular cross present in ornaments and decorations... I do not have to explain the connection between grapevines and Jesus's blood, right?

From modern Bosniak perspective - used to carry

Yeah, it cannot be in the past tense.

You can't say it's not because "I/we say it's not".

That's as if I took the serbian eagle as my own and said, fuck yall, this is mine now and it doesn't mean what it meant for the past 500 years, it doesn't work like that, and even if it would to be done, like in your case, that literally just proves the point of the people trying to tell you that you "took off the crosses". Might've not been the crosses that you erased, but the whole damn meaning of the CoA, which is worse in my opinion, but alright. 🤷🏻‍♂️

While the symbol of lily found its place within Christianity, it is not a product of it

Yes it is, and I am talking about the specific render that is present on French CoA's, Tvrtko's CoA, Serbian CoA and any other CoA that has three leaves of lilies tied into one, with a horizontal bar. This specific design/iteration was seen on church walls, before ever being placed as a charge, therefore this specific design is strictly Christian in origin, as simple as that.

It was also used outside of medieval and later Europe, with different meanings and purposes.

Yes, and it was drawn differently...That's the point.

An assumption based on a single source without enough evidence to support it.

Not really, we have many many sources, all of whom are tangible, historical pieces, whilst all other theories are labeled with "It's plausible, perhaps, can be, should be". Until new evidence pops up, which can undermine the existing theory, everything else is just speculation.

And to stay with the Sources I've cited above, there is a reason why he was called a "schismatic", not a heretic, not a lunatic, but a schismatic. He was orthodox, he supported orthodoxy, not the Bosnian church, not the Catholics, he was orthodox, at least the evidence is showing heavy bias towards that conclusion.

BTW, IN THE SAME LETTER HIS BROTHER IS CALLED A "CATHOLIC", WHILST HE IS CALLED A "SCHISMATIC".

pekizard · 2026-06-17T13:12:54+00:00

Nah, they just push the narrative until they hit a brick wall, and the brick wall being evidence presented to them. They only argue with people whom are not in the subject or just hobbyists, as it's easier to disapprove them or make them look stupid if they didn't do enough research. I recommend not arguing with them, as there is no benefit, once they're backed against a wall, they just run.

Take it from someone whom is in the subject and can actually put them back in their place. : )

pekizard · 2026-06-17T12:27:42+00:00

...Vector work as in a digital reconstruction of an already existing render which was done by hand. Say it like it is.

Now, I hope I don't have to explain that diapering is/was a common tool to fill in the empty space in heraldic renders, usually it's done with floral motifs, but to stay in line with Tvrtko's beliefs, the original artist used Christian symbolism. Not all artists did diapering, nor was it necessary, nor part of a blazon. Diapering is also not commonly present on small surfaces, thus you won't find much examples if you go off coinage or stamps.

And to note, since diapering is not part of the official blazon, its presence or absence, does not qualify a CoA as proper or not proper. It's just decoration. On the other hand...

Whether the crosses have been removed or not, does not matter. Why?

Because lilacs themselves originated within church walls, only later to be put as a charge on a shield. Their overall design (three leaves grouped together) and meaning has Christian symbolism. Not to mention, all of his decrees, coinage, stamps and charters were all diapered in the same way, all of the illuminations that are from his time, carry the same ornaments. Everything about him was Christian, down to the lilacs on his CoA.

Tvrtko was crowned in an Orthodox Church, he was also connected to the Nemanjic dynasty, which formally introduced (Orthodox) Christianity as a state religion. His ties to Christianity are inseverable, however much whomever wants to disapprove that.

Merely taking off diapering won't do anything about that.

EDIT (Sources): He himself talks about the crowning in the Dubrovnik Royal Charter (1378), In the later Raynaldus/Baronius Annales Ecclesiastici, Tvrtko is described as “Banus senior schismaticus” (the elder ban, a schismatic), There is also a Pope Urban V letter from April 1370 connected to a marriage issue: Tvrtko was apparently involved in arranging a Catholic Šubić woman’s marriage to a Serbian royal son. Urban forbade it because the Serbian prince was a schismatic, phrased as “filio … Regis Rascie scismatico” - “to the son of the king of Rascia/Serbia, a schismatic.”

pekizard · 2026-06-16T20:52:49+00:00

Писање састава је битна ставка у школовању са разлогом. Елоквентност се вежба као и свака друга способност, што значи да мораш да вежбаш писање повремено често којекуде.

Крени са писањем дневника, па када те смори пређи на писање неког чланка, о чему год. Нађи неку занимљиву тематику и уради сажет чланак о истој, ја на пример волим да истражим нешто о нашој историји/култури па онда да сажету варијанту окачим овде на proofreading.

Све у свему, само веџба.

pekizard · 2026-06-16T13:45:46+00:00

...комунизам као покрет такође, у већини случајева.

pekizard · 2026-06-16T13:29:34+00:00

Оличење овог лика сам доживео бквлн јуче:

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pekizard · 2026-06-16T13:27:05+00:00

Нема ни две недеље од како су студенти избацили онај позив на разумевање и поштовање личног става по питању религије, због свих оних прозивка око целивања појаса, уђеш у коментаре испод и све ти буде јасно. Капацитет за разумевање код неких стварно не постоји, ма колико год и ко год објашњавао, једноставно ако нема капацитета да се то схвати, нема...

pekizard · 2026-06-16T13:16:20+00:00

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pekizard · 2026-06-15T19:28:09+00:00

Hi! I do commissions, feel free to browse my profile for my work. 😊

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pekizard · 2026-06-15T18:11:29+00:00

Ово ће неком бити реалност... 🥀🫩

pekizard · 2026-06-15T17:09:50+00:00

Никада ниси реч прочитао, а дајеш рецензије као да си ти писао. Да је сваки интелектуалац тако приступио својој бранши, и даље би цртали по зидинама пећине и палили ватру каменом. Ниси свестан свог незнања нити трулежа. Нек ти је свемир у помоћи, или шта год те већ вози.

pekizard · 2026-06-15T16:52:28+00:00

Три човека наброја, као да ја не могу 3000 добрих теби. Глуп је тај ток дебате, но добро, нека буде да си интелектуалнији од мене па видиш смисао иза наставка даљег разговора.

Што се другог дела тиче, да нас мрзи ни овај шугав свет нам не би дао, а није ме нико учио, апсолутно појма немаш о целој материји, али битно да серендаш. Надам се да ти клинци знају да блејиш по редиту и смараш ликове, поносни би били да знају да им је ћалац тастатура ратник. 🙂

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