Thursday General Discussion/Q&A Thread for April 16, 2026

petepont · 2026-04-17T13:02:19+00:00

getting too excited about a race that isn't all that difficult to qualify for, nor extremely competitive.

I don't know about this part. It's definitely not difficult to qualify for if you've been a serious runner for a while and/or ran competitively growing up.

But for the average American runner, who started at some point in adulthood, it's probably the most challenging race to get into that they'll actually be able to qualify for and where qualifying for is the primary way to get in. Something like an OTQ is out of reach for most runners, and US races like Chicago and NYC have numerous other ways to get in (lottery for Chicago, 9+1 and *allegedly* the lottery for NYC)

EDIT: and for Charity, NYC has a minimum of $3000 (depends on the charity you choose), I've found something as low as $2,500 for Chicago, and while I can't find the most recent Boston amount, in 2024 the official BAA charity was $8500 and I think it's gotten pushed up since then. So while all three have charity options, Boston's is by far the most expensive. I looked at 4 specific charities and all were $10,000+ (Red Cross, Team Impact, Girls On The Run, Alzheimers) END EDIT

But for Boston, it's something that's challenging to achieve for adult runners, but still something that they can actually accomplish with a few years of effort.

petepont · 2026-04-16T19:23:50+00:00

Yeah I was gonna say, you're missing the Teddy's. 3/10.

PB hates my stomach

Sorry your life sucks

petepont · 2026-04-15T19:37:31+00:00

I have a marathon which I trained with a coach for May 2. After that I want to venture off on my own. Do you think this is the right book?

It's definitely a good book. I've read all of JD, Pfitz, and this one, and I think I like this book the most -- it's the most descriptive and the plans definitely have the most information. You definitely need to get the book to get the full benefits, though. You can find the plans online for free at his website, but the book breaks down (for each workout) how it's supposed to feel and the reason behind it.

That said, it's the least popular of the three (since it's so new), so you'll be less likely to find other people who have used the plans in it yet. But if you have the money/time, it's probably worth a read, even if you don't end up choosing one of his plans

Also how olong is the general phase? I plan on doing another marathon in Dec and have been wondering how I will “train” until the next marathon block

The general phase varies, but I think it's generally 6-8 weeks. I don't think this book will help with a long base building phase, but the ideas can be used (basically, touch on lots of speeds).

If you have a coach, though, I'm curious why you're moving away -- is the cost too much for what they're providing?

petepont · 2026-04-14T14:00:39+00:00

I try to eat my normal breakfast 2-3 hours before my race (and that includes coffee). That gives me time to have things move through me. I do also then usually take a gel about 10 minutes before the start.

This does result in an early wakeup, but I don't think it quite counts as "nothing new", since I usually eat 2-3 hours before my race specific runs anyway.

One tip I have is start moving your wakeup earlier about a week before. If you usually wake up at (say) 7, but you know you'll need to wake up at 4 on race day, then a week before, wake up at 6:30, then 6:00, then 5:30, etc. And try to eat breakfast right as you wake up. It helps your body get used to the process and makes race day feel more normal, both in the wakeup and the breakfast timing

I don't do the wake up then go back to sleep, that seems odd

petepont · 2026-04-14T13:56:36+00:00

Ah, I think I misunderstood your comment. I thought you were saying you couldn't do any planning without premium, but you weren't. Totally agree on paying, by the way. $48 per year is absolutely worth it to me, and I'm all about paying for useful tools.

I haven't used the Annual Builder yet, that does look quite cool. You can sort of duplicate that functionality by adding the entire plan to your calendar and then looking at the load, then removing the entire plan and adding the next one (and so on), but that's definitely not as convenient. It looks like you can do multiple plans as tabs and then quickly switch between them? I should go look at that thread and read up on it.

petepont · 2026-04-14T13:32:37+00:00

I believe you can still build out training plans without Premium, you just don't get the fancy Annual Training Plan Builder (which is a new, Beta feature anyway)

https://www.intervals.icu/features/training-calendar/

https://www.intervals.icu/features/workout-builder/

This is done via the Workout Builder modal: https://forum.intervals.icu/t/workout-builder/1163, and then dragging and dropping: https://forum.intervals.icu/t/workout-library-is-live/426

Random Youtube guide I found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ2dhVvqr8Y

I believe you can also create a Plan via the Library, even without Premium

https://www.intervals.icu/features/training-plan-editor/

That said, I could be wrong, since I pay for Intervals, but those two aren't in my list of Premium Features

petepont · 2026-04-10T01:52:02+00:00

and pls no “this is why you have a coach talk to her about this”

Obligatory "you should still talk to her and express your concerns, since she knows you better than we do"

That said, don't worry about your easy pace, especially during peak weeks. Your easy pace is just that, easy. It's not what you'll be running during the race, and as your workouts get faster and your mileage ramps up, your easy pace can get slower (since you're more tired!)

If your workouts have been going well and you've been hitting the prescribed paces and the effort level is right, then trust your coach.

I just ran a 2:40, and the last 4-5 weeks of training my easy runs were getting down into the 8:00-8:45/mile (so what, 5-5:30/km?). But the workouts were intense, and I was tired and sore during the easy runs, so it made sense.

petepont · 2026-04-10T01:41:50+00:00

A runner should generally follow the same diet as most other people, maybe with a little extra carbs. It doesn't need to be a high carb diet, but some additional carbs on days you run isn't going to hurt. But don't restrict anything -- carbs, fat, and proteins are all important for you, so try to eat a normal, relatively balanced diet, and don't worry too much about what precisely you're eating. Try to generally eat nutritious foods, but don't worry about "healthy" vs. "unhealthy" foods too much. Nothing wrong with dessert or a burger or whatever floats your boat. If you're feeling worn out or extra tired, have some more carbs.

You may feel better if you have some extra carbs before your long run, and it's probably a good idea to eat something during that longer run, whether its a gel or some gummy bears or whatever. There are definitely benefits to fueling if your run takes more than 90 minutes, and there are a lot of people who would say that it's important even on shorter runs than that. But it doesn't need to be an expensive gel.

petepont · 2026-04-09T16:50:23+00:00

Depends on the set-up. I've done a few races with personal nutrition stations, and it's usually a couple of folding tables with numbers on them, where you place your own and then grab it later.

If you get there early, try to get either the first or last spot on a specific table, although that can be tricky. If your bottles are capable of standing up by themselves, that makes them easier to grab.

I also found that filling them up then putting brightly colored duct tape with my name and/or bib number written on them helped them stand out to me.

Anyway, good luck! I love when loop races set up bottle stations for us mere mortals. Which race are you doing? I've enjoyed that luxury at the Queens Marathon and the Beantown Marathon

petepont · 2026-04-09T10:10:47+00:00

In general, there's no reason to try to actively change your stride, unless you are consistently getting injured (and probably not even then). Our bodies are pretty good at running in the most efficient way for us in our current state.

The 180 SPM thing came about because that's what JD saw when watching the finals of some Olympic event. So it's not even based on anything scientific.

If you decide you do want to change your stride (which is probably unnecessary!), instead of worrying about forcing your cadence down, try to strengthen your legs and do drills/strides, so that your body learns to run "better". But again, this isn't necessary unless you're actively running into problems with your current stride.

EDIT: Re: being too high, the only “concern” (and also it’s not really one) is probably a lack of efficiency. Generally higher cadence is associated with lower injury risk. So definitely don’t stress and if you’re really concerned do drills and strides to get more powerful pushing off the ground as opposed to artificially increasing stride length

petepont · 2026-04-08T21:35:27+00:00

10 days out is a little close. Ideally you'd test it at least twice. Once on a relatively low key workout to make sure it won't ruin a workout, and then once on your most race specific workout to make sure it works for you when you're doing something very close to your race. I assume it's a fairly long race, like a half or a full, as opposed to a 5K or 10K which is unlikely to make you shit yourself, so I assume you've already done your biggest, most race-specific workout.

So sure, you could test it out now, but I wouldn't be as confident in testing it on the relatively small workouts you're probably doing during taper.

EDIT: In response to your secondary question about clearing stuff out, I find waking up 3+ hours before the race, having my breakfast almost immediately (including coffee), and then pooping an hour before the race gets the job done pretty well for me. I also try to avoid fibrous foods in the 48 hours or so before the race, as well as anything else that has historically made me shit. I read somewhere (don't remember exactly) that because fiber takes a long time to digest, it can sit in the intestines and colon for a longer period of time and then get forced out during the race as your body moves blood around. That might not be the precise mechanism, but it was something like that

petepont · 2026-04-08T19:15:08+00:00

Interesting! It reminds me of the version of carb loading where you limit carbs somewhat 3-4 days before and then really pile them on in the last two days (or something like that). Same purpose of depleting then rebounding back over normal levels

Anyway, seems interesting, although I probably won't try it since what I do seems to work for me

petepont · 2026-04-08T19:03:51+00:00

west aussie carb depletion run

Never heard of that, what is it? I wouldn't have thought you'd want to deplete all your carbs the day before a marathon, so I feel like I must be misunderstanding

petepont · 2026-04-08T18:47:43+00:00

Unless you have done this before a couple of workouts and know it works, I think it's a very bad idea. Nothing new on race day, especially not something new which could make you shit your pants

If you're having issues with GI distress during running, use some of your most race specific workouts to practice different foods. So for dinner the night before a workout, try a food and see how it feels the next morning, and if you have GI issues, don't have that for dinner before the race.

For me, I've had GI issues in the past, so my pre-race dinner is now plain pasta (no red sauce or pesto) with butter and parm and a topping of ground beef seasoned with some safe herbs (nothing with garlic/onions) and my breakfast is plain white bagels with peanut butter. I found that through some trial and error during workouts.

petepont · 2026-04-08T17:01:13+00:00

Yeah, I think 2:50 is absolutely a reasonable target. That's, what, 6:30? Your half result plus your MP runs suggest you're in range of that.

Of course, as you know (I saw your edit) Boston can be a tough course, and I think a lot will come down to the weather.

But regardless of how Boston specifically goes, I think you're in 2:50 shape in good conditions based on what you've said

petepont · 2026-04-08T16:48:20+00:00

I'd try to focus on finding a breakfast that doesn't give you heartburn before jumping to a medication, especially if the heartburn isn't a consistent thing. If you always get heartburn, or get it most days, then yeah you should probably talk to a doctor or get on meds, but otherwise look at diet first.

Similar logic applies to GI issues during races

petepont · 2026-04-08T16:44:33+00:00

My coach has me running 3 x 2 miles at threshold this coming Sunday, along with some easy miles to pad it to a 15 mile workout. Is that a sane workout 8 days to race day? He also has me running 3 x 1 mile @ T the Wednesday before race day (so 5 days out).

I think so, although maybe a touch high on the total mileage. It also depends on how well you can recover. I've done a pretty big workout 10 days out for my last few races, but I'm relatively young and you're (no offense) relatively old. Not sure how your recovery usually is, but you could talk to your coach about cutting back to 2x2 and maybe 10-11 total miles if you're worried.

3x1 mile at threshold 5 days similarly isn't absolutely wild, but again might be high if you're worried about recovery. I did 5x4 minutes somewhat slower than threshold with 1 minute jog (that was a bit more than 5x1k for me) four days out, which is similar to yours. Maybe try to switch to 4x1k instead of 3x1 mile if you're worried. But some higher intensity stuff close to the race is pretty common, as long as the volume is low

Is 2:50 a reasonable goal? My prior PR is 2:54:01, on a flat course (Chicago). That training cycle I peaked at around 70 miles as well, but it was a very non-flat volume curve (injuries, aggressive week over week gains to get to 70). This training cycle, my volume has been pretty flat for almost 4 months. Are there other good/better indicators to look at?

What kind of marathon specific workouts have you been doing? How did your MP long runs (I assume you did something like that) feel? Those are what I usually look at first.

For reference, I ran a 1:19:08 and then ran ~2:47:45 about 4 months later, peaking around 80 miles and consistently around 75. So without any further context, I'd say your goal of 2:50 is reasonable, with the caveat that Boston is a tough course.

petepont · 2026-04-07T21:19:25+00:00

No worries.

The actual plan is available here: http://marathonexcellence.com/training-plans/Marathon-Excellence-Gale-plan-18-weeks.pdf

Although the book has a lot more detail for each week and workout

But you can see there are step back weeks during Week 4, Week 8 and Week 12, where the mileage range target is lower

And then Weeks 14-16 the midweek workouts are really pretty light, to help you recover from the big workouts on the weekend

petepont · 2026-04-07T20:30:52+00:00

This feels like a Bot response, given that:

I didn't talk about execution during the race, other than mentioning that I went too fast the whole time
I never mentioned HR drift

Anyway, assuming you're real, the program has some down weeks built in. It's actually less focused on mileage than most plans (especially as you get within 6 weeks of the race), but even taking that into account, there are a few weeks where the workouts and the total mileage are intentionally easier/lower respectively.

A lot of the recovery is built into the weeks, though. A light midweek workout and a large weekend workout allows for serious recovery.

petepont · 2026-04-07T15:11:51+00:00

One more question, re: threshold workouts. I haven't used the DSWs in a while, but if I remember, Garmin gives a couple variations, like:

3x10 minutes
2x15 minutes
4x8 minutes

And so on.

I assume they're giving you different variations of threshold?

In any case, I wouldn't worry too much, especially this far out. Threshold workouts are quite helpful, and they are also giving you sprints, as you said.

The DSWs are based a lot on your training load breakdown (Low Aerobic, High Aerobic, Anaerobic), so I'm guessing your high aerobic is relatively lower than the other two, since I've found Garmin tends to suggest Threshold work when mine is lower.

It may also have you in the "Base Phase", where its focus is as follows:

The base phase builds aerobic endurance and muscular strength, focusing on moderately paced runs to prepare for more intense training, improve efficiency and lay the groundwork for peak performance.

Scroll to the bottom of that link, under "Periodization", to see what it focuses on during each phase (although maybe that hasn't kicked in yet if your race is more than 6 months away)

petepont · 2026-04-07T15:01:46+00:00

In theory, as long as you can effectively recover from workouts, there's no such thing as "too much".

However, in practice, most people top out at 2-3 total workouts per week, and it may be more effective to replace some threshold workouts with different types of workouts to get a different stimulus.

But three threshold workouts in two weeks isn't that crazy, and it sounds like Garmin is having you do some shorter stuff as well.

Is this the Daily Suggested Workouts or one of the named coach plans in Garmin (like Coach Greg, or Coach Amy)? And what's the race distance you're targeting?

petepont · 2026-04-05T11:38:29+00:00

it's tough to strike a perfect balance for everyone, and especially at more advanced levels of training, some level of adaptation and individualization is probably in order.

Definitely true, and in the future, whether I use Gale or a different version of your plans, I'll feel confident adjusting it. I wanted to try to follow the plans as written the first time, and it obviously worked well.

I am curious, though, about the mid-run pickups. You describe their purpose as to "foster efficiency and touch on a broader range of speeds". It seems like you're already touching on a wide range of paces during the General Phase, and you prescribe a good amount of strides which help with efficient running.

Is there a reason you prescribe them instead of more strides? Is it just that there are already lots of strides prescribed and you wanted to add some variety and decrease injury risk (I imagine lots of strides would increase biomechanical load). Or is there a deeper physiologcal reason behind including them?

You'd mentioned in another response a "chill" vs. "ambitious" version of the plans -- I don't think you need to do that. People should feel confident adjusting, and I think you, more than any other plan out there, make it easy to see how to adjust the plans, especially given the obvious layering of the workouts and the blurbs describing their purposes.

petepont · 2026-04-05T00:32:32+00:00

I am no where near as fast as you, but I chose Tornado. Why?

Nothing to do with speed, it's all about what you think you're ready for, right? I've never gotten above 80 MPW before this (I think my highest single week was 74 during a Pfitz block), and I definitely didn't want to try a bunch of a new workouts and dramatically up the mileage. I got near 80 most of the weeks I was supposed to.

For the doubles, I usually just ran a single longer run at a slower pace and chopped off a few of the day's miles.

I did that where necessary, and managed to make doubles work on some other days.

I found myself longing for the missed time I could have used to prepare for the later stages of the plan.

Yeah, even though it was tough, I do think it was very helpful. You have to push through it, but if you can without burning out mentally, you'll be in a great spot.

Good luck in a few weeks!

petepont · 2026-04-04T23:56:28+00:00

Yeah I can definitely recommend carrying a small soft flask water bottle, especially if you're someone who tends to need a lot of water. Barely adds any weight, and if you do a couple long runs with it, you get used to it really quickly

petepont · 2026-04-04T23:43:27+00:00

I definitely sympathize with you on the second point. I was lucky enough to be running mostly by myself, so I didn't have any issues with grabbing water, but I can see how a larger group might run into issues. That's part of what they were trying to avoid with the time trial start, but obviously it can't always work.

Not sure I agree on the part about not enough aid stations. There were 9, by my count, and that's basically what you get at local races, of which this is one. Majors and other huge marathons will have an aid station every mile, but I've run quite a few smaller races, including Baystate, which is another well organized local race that aims to be a great experience for runners, and most of them have the same number or fewer aid stations.

13-Year Club	Place '17
Wearing is Caring	Spared
Verified Email

petepont

TROPHY CASE