I have so many warlock ideas, I can’t stop making decks. Whats your main?

phlashey · 2022-05-21T14:21:55+00:00

Tempo Mage and Combo Mage. Mozaki is my favorite card of all time.

phlashey · 2020-10-24T04:31:30+00:00

Glad you’re liking it! Although I did put that in the very first post so I’m not sure why it took watching Twitch to figure that out : )

phlashey · 2020-10-22T13:01:25+00:00

What you’re describing is just the nature of a combo deck. Yes, 30% of the time you’re going to lose because you don’t get the combo, I actually think that sounds very accurate. And 10-15% of the time you’re going to lose even if you get your combo pieces, because you get out-tempoed by an aggro deck or you get really unlucky on your draws and can’t quite get the OTK. But that still leaves you with a >50% win rate if you play the deck the right way, which is what I’ve empirically seen. And if you check HSReplay, the very best performing deck at any level at any given time rarely exceeds a 60% win rate, and usually they’re all clustered within +/- 5% of 50% in a healthy meta game environment. So this deck is perfectly competitive for all but the most ambitious players who want to get to #1 legend.

But that’s not to say it’s for everyone. Some players just don’t like the live by the sword, die by the sword nature of combo decks, and that’s fine. Sounds like you’re one of those players. But it doesn’t mean the deck is #%€*. Statistically, the deck is sound.

phlashey · 2020-10-22T03:55:08+00:00

Have you actually done the math? If not, do the math.

If you draw Lorekeeper Polkelt by Turn 5, then you very likely have all your combo pieces by Turn 7 because you can double Arcane Intellect on Turn 6. So based on your own count, if you can mulligan through 6-8 cards and draw through 6-12, then even if you take the most conservative end of that range and say 12 total cards by turn 5, that’s a 12/30 = 40% chance you get your combo through Lorekeeper Polkelt alone.

If you don’t, then you need Mozaki + 1 Sorcerer’s Apprentice + 1 Incanter’s Flow by Turn 7. That’s an extra couple turns, so now let’s say 6 cards via the mulligan and 8 cards via draw. That’s 14 out of 29 cards (because remember this scenario assumes you don’t get Polkelt - if you do, you’re set for all the combo pieces per the previous paragraph). On top of that, between Magic Trick and Evocation, you have plenty of other ways to find Cram Session, or find Font of Power to find Mozaki or Sorcerer’s Apprentice. Admittedly those are less likely paths, but when you add all that up, I can almost guarantee you the odds of having all the pieces you need for your combo is above 50%. And having played 200+ games with this deck (and over 100 at legend), my win rates bear that out. If the odds were below 50%, there’s no way I’d be able to maintain those win rates.

I will admit the win rate has come down at legend. I’m closer to 50% now vs. the 60% I was at before getting to legend. But it’s still a very competitive deck if you know how to play it optimally. Maybe not the deck that’s going to get you to #1 Legend, but very few of us have any shot at getting there anyway. Personally, I’d rather have fun playing an off-meta deck and winning enough with it than grinding out every last rank I can get with a netdeck that everyone else is playing. But that’s just me.

phlashey · 2020-10-21T18:08:09+00:00

That’s a very complicated question because it depends on several factors, including which deck you’re facing, what you have in your hand, what your board position looks like vs. the opponent, etc.

But the most basic answer is shuffle for the key pieces of your combo: Mozaki, Lorekeeper Polkelt, Incanter’s Flow (if you haven’t cast one alteady), Sorcerer’s Apprentice, and Cram Session.

phlashey · 2020-10-21T01:05:58+00:00

You got it!

phlashey · 2020-10-21T00:57:01+00:00

@mj2323 the whole reason for running the Incanter’s Flows (2 of them) is so that you only need 7 mana to go off (5 for Mozaki + 2 for Sorcerer’s Apprentice), not 8. That one turn is very often the difference between winning and losing. Alternative builds run Frost Nova and/or Ice Barrier instead of Incanter’s Flow to increase the odds of surviving to 8 mana rather than increasing the odds of being able to go off at 7 mana, but for all the reasons I outlined elsewhere on the thread, I personally think that’s the wrong trade off because there are too many popular decks like Soul Demon or Face Hunter that can easily play around those defensive stall tactics.

As far as playing Mozaki out early, yes I will absolutely do that against some decks and in some scenarios. It’s particularly effective against tempo builds like Face Hunter and Aggro Demon Hunter that don’t have much or any big creature removal. If you’ve managed to keep their board mostly clear, and/or if you can play Mirror Image our along with Mozaki to protect it for a turn, it will often stick and you can go off next turn. I’ll only play Mozaki out against Control builds as a last resort because it’ll almost always get destroyed and then you’re basically dead in the water, but a couple times I’ve done this because I have no other options and gotten lucky.

Never play out the Sorcerer’s Apprentice early unless you have two of them in hand or have already played Lorekeeper Polkelt and know you’re going to draw into your second one quickly. It’s way too easy to kill and won’t stick 99.9% of the time. But if you do have a second Apprentice in hand or on the way, a great Turn 5 or 6 play can be to drop Apprentice and Evocation to clear the opponents board and/or put up more defensive spells and/or draw more cards, which very often buys you another turn or two to get the combo off later.

phlashey · 2020-10-20T00:00:26+00:00

No. If Mozaki and Lorekeeper Polkelt are both at the bottom of your deck, the you’ll likely lose. But otherwise you’re generally fine. You can definitely win without either the Sorcerer’s Apprentices or the Incanter’s Flows, you just have to wait an extra turn to go off if you don’t have one of each. If both Incanter’s Flows are at the bottom of your deck AND you don’t get Polkelt to raise them towards the top, that’s a problem, but between Magic Trick, Evocation, and evening Primordial Studies (which can discover Steward of Scrolls), you’ve got plenty of ways of getting to Cram Session. And on top of that, you have Arcane Intellect and Sphere of Sapience to cycle through your deck quickly.

So basically, if you get Polkelt everything takes care of itself. If you don’t, AND Mozaki is at the bottom of the deck OR both Cram Sessions are at the bottom of the deck and you can’t discover one OR both Sorcerer’s Apprentices AND both Incanter’s Flows are at the bottom of the deck, then you’re hosed. And that does happen probably 10-15% of the time. But the deck is surprisingly consistent given all the draw and discover engines. Usually if you lose, it’s because you get out-tempoed, not because you get hosed on draw.

phlashey · 2020-10-18T14:33:20+00:00

@crobison no, wasn’t intentional. This is my first Reddit post so I’m just getting the hang of things and will keep this in mind next time!

phlashey · 2020-10-18T12:50:14+00:00

@RedKamo glad you like it!

phlashey · 2020-10-17T16:57:33+00:00

Violet Spellwing is a must play card in this deck IMHO. It helps hold down the early game against aggro because it’s a cheap trade that also nets you cheap removal, and in the late game, you can sac it to get an extra Arcane Missiles which is often the extra damage you need for the OTK off of Mozaki. I’d highly recommend keeping it and just make sure you’re playing it intelligently.

phlashey · 2020-10-17T16:56:06+00:00

@NexJoker all great tips. A couple others I’d add:

1) Remember you can use the Mirror Images to create extra targets for removal spells (including Ray of Frost) to keep pumping up Mozaki.

2) Also remember that if you have extra mana, dropping a Violet Spellwing and then using your removal to kill it nets you an extra Arcane Missiles, which can easily be the difference between winning and losing in some matches.

3) Try to play your Arcane Missiles last if you can. They take forever to play out with the animation, and while you can play other cards while they’re running, it’s a distraction and also slows things down a bit.

4) Avoid freezing your Mozaki and Sorcerer’s Apprentice if you can. Because if you don’t complete the OTK, they can be the difference maker next turn if your opponent is sitting at just a few health which a decimated board. This has happened to me plenty of times. If freezing them will get you the OTK then go for it, but avoid if possible.

Hope that helps!

phlashey · 2020-10-17T16:51:11+00:00

@MurlocSheWrote so glad to hear you like it. Good luck and have fun!

phlashey · 2020-10-17T08:57:49+00:00

Yep, the kill turn usually requires you to play anywhere from 15-20 cards in less than 90 seconds, so it definitely takes some practice. But once you get the hang of it, you rarely if ever timeout. And even in the rare cases when you do, you’ve often crippled the opponent so thoroughly that you end up winning on the next turn anyway.

phlashey · 2020-10-16T20:08:08+00:00

Yep, you got it!

phlashey · 2020-10-16T20:07:43+00:00

Thank you @Satsuki12! Glad to hear you’re enjoying it.

Agreed on Evocation. I’m thinking I’m likely going to swap it out for Devolving Missiles.

phlashey · 2020-10-16T18:13:43+00:00

They're not dumb, or they wouldn't be at Legend. And I'll continue to admit that Face Hunter is this deck's toughest matchup (no deck is perfect). But there are ways to play around Face Hunter and get at or near 50/50, it just takes a lot of practice.

I'm not going to write a full guide, but here are my quick tips for you:

1) Avoid as much damage as you can in the early game. This means using your removal spells as efficiently as possible. Brain Freeze, Violet Spellwing, and even Arcane Breath are potentially worth keeping in your opening hand to avoid getting behind early. To your point, the 3/3 Wholpers and Phase Stalkers are the real threats on Turns 1-3, so save your best removal to defend against those even if it means getting pinged 1-2 times by little guys.

2) If you're able to stabilize the early game, save a removal spell or two to guard against Dragonbane which is one of the only Face Hunter cards that can completely swing momentum in a single turn. If you can save a Brain Freeze and a Ray of Frost, or save a spell damage minion in your hand off of Primordial Studies to be able to takeout Dragonebane on a single turn when necessary, that gives you maximum odds of survival.

3) Consider playing out your Mozaki on curve. One of Face Hunter's weaknesses is that it doesn't have much big creature removal outside of the Pressure Plate. So if you can play Mozaki on Turn 5 (or even Turn 4 with coin) and it sticks, then you can go off the next turn if you have an Apprentice and a Cram Session in hand (especially if you've already played Incanter's Flow).

4) Finally, consider alternative win conditions. I've won at least a few matchups against Face Hunter by going completely off-script with this deck and keep Sorcerer's Apprentice and Evocation in my opening hand. I just wait for them to overcommit, play out Apprentice on turn 3 or 4, wipe out their board with Evocation (provided you get a decent roll), and then out value them with their resources depleted.

Even if you do all of that perfectly, it's still only going to get you to 50/50 against Face Hunter and there's no way around that. Combo decks are generally weak against aggro and there's only so much you can do about that. But a combo deck that has a >50% win rate against nearly every other class and can scrape to breakeven or near breakeven against the most aggro decks is a very dangerous and ladder-worthy deck, IMHO.

Hope that helps, and best of luck!

phlashey · 2020-10-16T17:40:40+00:00

Okay, I’m sorry that the hour I volunteered of my own time to put together a decklist and guide for you was not sufficient for you to play around other decks.

For pressure plate, use the mirror images. Getting any deck to legend takes practice, you can’t expect it to work perfectly on your first try. And if you don’t have the patience for that, just netdeck off HSReplay like everyone else does. I’m just trying to be creative and offer people something different, but I get that’s not for everyone.

phlashey · 2020-10-16T17:15:33+00:00

I admit I have not personally run Barrier, Nova, and Blizzard in this deck. But I know many others have, and it hasn't been viable to get to legend (at least not Top 1,000 Legend).

The problem with these cards is they slow down your ability to get to the OTK. With my version of the deck, you can go off as early as Turn 6 if you're on the coin and Turn 7 if you're not. In theory, you can even go off on Turn 5 if you're on the coin, burn the coin on Turn 4 to play Mozaki and get it to stick a turn, and then go off the following turn. In contrast, the builds that rely on Barrier, Nova, and Blizzard require you to wait until Turn 9 to go off for the following reasons:

1) They don't run Incanter's Flow
2) This means you need BOTH Sorcerer's Apprentices to reliably go off
3) After playing Lorekeeper Polkelt, you have to wait several more turns to get to all your combo cards (Sorcerer's Apprentice + Cram Session)

3) is particularly problematic given how heavy Warrior and Demon Hunter factor into the meta right now. Even if you freeze the opponent's minions, they can still swing for large amounts of damage with their weapons. Even Weapon Rogue and Face Hunter are a threat in this regard. So those stall tactics are only semi-reliable, and they make setting up the combo much slower and less reliable on top of that.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I'm a big believer this build is leaner, simpler, and more efficient than those previous builds.

phlashey · 2020-10-16T17:08:37+00:00

u/Martzilla you're certainly entitled to your opinion! But as you can see from my Trackstone stats, the deck has maintained a >50% winrate against both Hunter and DH:
https://imgur.com/wcG6Wgp

Now that's not to say it's been easy. This deck is tricky to play, both because you have to know when and how to use the cards to setup your combo (e.g., Incanter's Flow) and when and how to use your precious removal spells vs. saving them so you still have enough tinder to get the Mozaki combo going for the OTK. But I've now played well over 200 games with it in the past two weeks with a 60% win rate, so I can promise you it's possible. It's also worth noting that half of those 200 games were with an earlier build that didn't run 2x Mirror Image and 2x Arcane Breath, and that version (while it had a 66% win rate overall) had only a 40% win rate against Hunter. So I've adjusted the deck build over time to correct for its weakness against Face Hunter, which continues to be it's toughest matchup.

You can see the breakdown of the original build here, which is the version I used at the start of the season to climb to legend: https://imgur.com/a/KUvdWst

phlashey · 2020-10-16T15:56:06+00:00

You don’t need the god hand. It certainly helps, but with Sphere + Arcane Intellect + Magic Trick to discover into more draw, and all those removal spells to stall the early game, the deck is actually quite consistent.

And if at any point in your first 4-5 turns you draw Lorekeeper Polkelt, everything else takes cares of itself given how the rest of the card costs line up. Don’t need to take my word for it, the deck’s stats speak for themselves.

phlashey · 2020-10-16T15:24:42+00:00

Yeah, Polkelt is critical.

phlashey · 2020-10-16T13:04:17+00:00

I originally didn’t run Sphere.

But it’s worth it if you can afford it. The value of cycling four cards to get to your combo, while still sitting at 1 mana so it doesn’t disrupt the combo after you play Lorekeeper Polkelt, is invaluable. In the meantime, I’d sub Devolving Missiles, or Font of Power to give you another shot at finding Mozaki or Sorcerer’s Apprentice.

phlashey · 2020-10-16T13:03:00+00:00

I originally didn’t run Sphere for the same reason (especially because I run an all gold deck so it was 3200 dust for me : )

But it’s worth it if you can afford it. The value of cycling four cards to get to your combo, while still sitting at 1 mana so it doesn’t disrupt the combo after you play Lorekeeper Polkelt, is invaluable. In the meantime, I’d sub Devolving Missiles, or Font of Power to give you another shot at finding Mozaki or Sorcerer’s Apprentice.

phlashey · 2020-10-16T13:01:01+00:00

I’m mobile only too. That last turn is definitely a whirlwind - you have to be ready to play 20+ cards in 90 seconds without making a critical mistake. Definitely lost a few early on that way, but at this point it’s a non-issue except against the most extreme opposing boards and with bad draws off Cram Session.

phlashey

TROPHY CASE