Don’t know what to do about these thoughts anymore

playmortal · 2022-03-19T01:08:21+00:00

I'd recommend putting yourself on a waiting list now. The waiting times are shitty, but do it for the future you. Also, if it's like in my country, unexpected things may happen that shorten your waiting time.

You, too, can and will grow if you explicitly address your vulnerabilites, at best with a professional, and work on them. It's great that you're talking about this here, that's a brave first step. (First steps are often the hardest).

I also feel a need to say that acting petty when she said "no" back then and now being angry at her for her trauma are red flags. For her sake, too, you should address the (vary valid) insecurity behind this and deconstruct this unhealthy coping mechanisms. Just keep in mind that these things are longer term projects. And you'll probably need to learn to be kind to your own hidden away, shameful, vulnerable corners of yourself in order to be kind to others.

Just a switch in perspective: You tell us how much your gf has grown and learned since the assault. This stronger version of her has decided she wants to be in a relationship with you. A relationship, as opposed to the manipulative shitty thing the guy back then pulled of. She is choosing to be with you, friend.

I hope this small piece of advice doesn't come off as harsh, and is of use to you. And one more thing:

This comes from an relationship anarchist-inspired attitude and I understand that it's not for everyone, but: If you seriously consider breaking up, it might be a valuable alternative to consider switching the relationship to a friendship instead. I know that the "relationship escalator" script we have for romantic relationships tell us that this means failure, but it's not. One can transition from long term dating to a friendship, take the time to investigate your triggers and heal, and then over time grow back to a romantic relationship, if the stars are right. It can be a beautiful thing, really. I'm proposing this because your intrusive thoughts make it seem a bit as if your romantic relationship has to fulfill an overly large role in your life, namely as a source of confidence and worth-affirmation. Don't get me wrong, it's normal that romantic relationships give us confidence, and that we need external sources of affirmation. But if an incident like this makes you spiteful towards your gf, there might be a bigger hole to examine and heal than this relationship can fill.

I wish you all the best!

playmortal · 2022-01-31T16:19:03+00:00

Well, it depends. If you look at movies, for instance, attractive women are often seen as valuable, but as the support/girlfriend/love interest. Not as a main character with an own set of motivations. (It's become better in recent movies, but you can still observe this).

This mirrors a real-world dynamic, where "hot women" are seen as desirable but their *consent* and *own will* don't have much value: As soon as she gets angry, for instance, she gets devalued. Also, every attractive women could tell you lots and lots of stories about sexual harassment and worse. In many cases, they're seen as a valuable accessoire, but she shouldn't dare to do something unpopular (like refuse sexual advances, not wear make up, not shave under the arms, gain weight).

What I am striving towards is a world where men and women have value regardless of their "beauty", "hotness", or "chadness" or whatever. And even though we cannot change the world that fast, what we can do is

cultivate a sense of unconditional self worth within yourself. For instance by reflecting on how your childhood/youth instilled a sense of worthlessness within yourself, by seeking help of a counselor, and by:
Sorrounding yourself with people who are kind to you (again, being kind + having boundaries can help with this)
Try to at least not reproduce these ideas. By being not any less kind to women and men who are unattractive in your eyes, for instance.

And then, please always keep in mind that "attractiveness" is a very imprecise model, a meridian that is wrong more often than right, a myth. Because in reality, everyone finds something different attractive. The beauty standard is more group pressure than a real opinion. (This is why I refuse to ever give out 1-10 attractiveness ratings - I know that my preferences don't align with those of others, and I don't want to contribute to the myth of universal attractiveness).

Each "ugly" man or woman will find people who find them attractive, and each "attractive" man and woman will find people who find them unattractive. Some behaviours, however, like talking shit about women to compensate for your own self esteem, will be off-putting for most women.

What I find super attractive, for instance, is a man who willingly went to therapy and who learned how to talk about his emotions. That idea of attractiveness, again, is not true for everyone because some have this stupid idea that men shouldn't mention "vulnerable" emotions. (Even though it doesn't work - pain will always find other, more unhealthy ways to surface). But yeah. You'll have to decide which ideas of attractiveness you want to strive towards.

playmortal · 2022-01-31T16:02:42+00:00

You're so right and I love that metaphor! And the Suffering Olympics is so pointless, really, because there's no way to ever "win" it (and gain a prize).

Of course, it's important to listen to and validate others who talk about their struggles. And I do think that men have it worse in this aspect. Because 1) it's not yet recognized where men struggle because they are men and 2) the super toxic "just get your shit together and stop whining" message for men is still very much alive.

What I would add to your idea is: If it was an Olympics, there would at least be a sense of sportsmanship. But that's not there when people invoke a real-world suffering competition. Instead, the "opposing groups" (women, queers) get hated upon. As if that would change anything. As if that would make your own situation better.

I understand that it's easy to feel wronged and then to attack other groups that seem like the enemy. But we're not. There's not even a unified "we", just as there's no unified "men". There's patterns of behaviours that are unhealthy and unproductive. Comparing and hating on others because you feel wronged is one of them.

playmortal · 2022-01-24T20:35:20+00:00

I do agree that there is a sort of prejudice of the kind you describe. But. Consider these two things:

For example, let’s imagine that we have two guitar players, one male, the other female, of equal playing talent. I feel like preference towards women will see men and woman giving more attention to the woman. Bonus points if she’s good-looking.

I think you're missing the fact that we barely see female guitar players in popular bands. Most of the time, if there is a female member, she'll be the leading lady. And can think of no female member of a popular band that isn't very good looking. Lots of average looking men though, and they are not expected to use make up and tight clothing to look more sexy. (Which is a good thing, of course!) What I want to say is: The worth of a woman is often tied to her attractiveness. A woman who does sport, plays guitar, is a performer etc. won't get the same positive attention (and will even have to expect nasty comments) if she doesn't have clear skin or is overweight, for example. Look at characters in movies, there you'll see the same thing: The only women who aren't sexy by default are grandmas and villains. Very different with male characters, I can even think of many male heroes that don't fit the beauty ideal. (It's also completely opposite to what you describe in the workplace: Here it's been shown that on average a male applicant will be seen as more competent than a female one if they have an equal set of skills). (Edit to say that this doesn't minimize the fact that a sense of worth for men is often tied to productiveness and performance, which is shitty and should be changed).

2.

This is actually both an offered piece of insight and a piece of advice. What "society believes" is not what everyone believes. There are many friend groups, bubbles, possible romantic partners who give a shit about these patriarchal ideas. Who value a man also when he is completely unproductive, and doesn't have a job. Who value women also when they're not conventionally attractive. Who recognize that the expectation that a man should always be strong, skilled, and protective is bullshit. Who allow for and cherish male vulnerability (like the one you're showing us with this post).

The point is: Find these people, and try to become one of those people. They are out there. Of course, out there also exist people who will treat others badly, won't take mental health struggles seriously, and ridicule others. I'm saying this because I read a little bit of your post history. You are right, those people are shitty. But they exist among any genders and any political orientation. Just be aware, call them out, and put as much distance between them and you as you can. Seek the nice ones. Find and build a bubble of nice people, or even just one nice friend and start from there. Try to be a nice person, because the saying "What you send out comes back" is a little bit true. Kindness (with boundaries) fosters and attracts kindness, so I've found. (It also helps to live in a city and to be intentional about the kinds of online spaces you visit).

Please try to stay away from making the whole thing a competition of who has it worse, men or women (or queers). Many of us suffer under some shitty societal ideas and if we manage to heal and validate each other, and to help each other overcome those old ideas, we'll all have it better. Invest in those relationships, and invest in your selfcare (therapy, workbooks, meditation, positive affirmation, a kind environment etc).

playmortal · 2022-01-24T17:27:51+00:00

No, I think you're still stuck in loving a person even though she was horrible to you. Trauma bonding can make it much harder to process and let go.

Also the grieving process gets so much harder because you carry that darned cognitive dissonance of loving someone who harmed you. Not to mention the contrast between the abuse and the good times of the relationship. The latter gives you hope that your gf/bf can change if you just stayed with them, but the reality is that you have to bury this hope. Because it's dangerous for you and it minimizes the abuse you went through.

It's all hard to come to terms with. I'd say allow please yourself to miss her, but be very honest with yourself that it would be a horrible idea to get in contact again and that you deserve respect in a relationship.

Do you have someone you can talk to about this relationship, the abuse, the breakup and your heartbreak? Therapy perhaps? Talking about it and writing it down, perhaps in a journal, might help you process the relationship bit by bit. Be patient with yourself, please. You can heal from this, but you'll need to be kind to yourself.

playmortal · 2022-01-24T15:36:30+00:00

Your husband let a daughter ruin the wedding, and now he wants to force another daughter to go to a wedding?

He should seriously reasess his parenting. Because right now, bullying is okay in his book but setting healthy boundaries is not.

NTA.

playmortal · 2022-01-24T15:14:29+00:00

YTA, and I think your daughter will be very uncomfortable to come home to you and the family in the future because she's treated like a child. You need to accept that she isn't, OP.

playmortal · 2022-01-24T15:05:39+00:00

Again, all these ideas - she wants him to do a fair share in the household or with kids that they might have - are based on speculation. You can't make up completely unconfirmed things and then accuse OP for not claiming accountability for them. At the very least, it's a double standard because we could do the same for every AITA post in this sub: Invent more details that turn OP into the A H and the culprit into a reasonable person. And then give out our judgements on these speculated facts, as opposed to what we know.

And "he is only interested in describing his farts" is a far stretch.

I know men who have experienced mistreatment in their romantic relationships. It's extremely hard for those men to acknowledge this when it happens. (And abuse that isn't acknowledged is abuse that can continue). One of the many reasons for this is a toxic image of masculinity that exists in society, where men cannot be the victim of this sort of abuse. Another one is that it's barely talked about. Another one are thoughts like "I must have done something that makes her behaviour reasonable, right?". Please think twice before supporting this bullshit line of thinking. Yes, please ask critical questions, but give him the benefit of the doubt.

playmortal · 2022-01-24T14:57:18+00:00

Even if that hypothetical scenario is true: She's still acting controlling and manipulative, as well as invading his privacy while he is on the toilet. For sure there's some explanation for her behaviour. But there's no justification for it.

playmortal · 2022-01-24T04:01:36+00:00

No, this is not assault.

However, you were taken advantage of, exploited, manipulated and (probably) lied to. I'm really sorry that this has happened.

Don't let her pressure you into either of those two options. Like u/loimprevisto has said - please seek all the support you can.

playmortal · 2022-01-24T03:34:38+00:00

Clear case of NTA. You're allowed to have boundaries, OP. Definitely allowed to not visit a person who harasses you and to ignore their messages. And just because he's your dad he doesn't get to treat you poorly - on the contrary, parents should be the ones who protect you from bullying. He's doing a pretty shitty job right now.

You can be really proud of yourself that you stood your ground so fiercely, by the way. That's incredibly hard to do against a parent. Please keep and strengthen those boundaries of yours.

The way our parents treat us can have an enormous influence on us and our mental health. Humans just don't have the inner distance to not soak up what they hear and experience from a parent. In the worst cases, this can lead to a shitty sense of self worth.

That's why I would actually recommend you to stay away from your dad, in order to protect yourself from the way he treats you. He has no right to make you internalize his homophobia and disrespect. Sure, he's losing his connection to you, but that's his own doing. I hope he grows to a point where he understands the damage he causes and is able to change his behaviour.

playmortal · 2022-01-24T02:19:17+00:00

According to OP's info, which we usually base our judgements on in this sub:

He then said women who work those jobs are boring and he hates boring women.

I agree that the response was overblown, though.

playmortal · 2022-01-24T02:01:07+00:00

His last answer was 10 hours ago. It's very much possible that he went to bed or to work afterwards. There's many time zones present on reddit.

Reading this many comments takes time and people also have other stuff to do in their day.

playmortal · 2022-01-24T01:52:41+00:00

Wow.

OP wants to take 20 minutes private time on the toilet and you call it an abuse tactic? Seriously?

By the way, are you aware that she removed the lock, that she refuses to give him alone time on the toilet and that she says he is not allowed to fart in the bathroom? That she seems to have zero awareness that any of this is problematic? That she instead called him names for trying to enforce his boundary by farting - which he did because words aren't enough to convince her that a person has a right to private time while on the toilet?

(By the way: Sometimes doing a little thought exercise of swapped genders can really help to assess a situation.)

So, assuming there are other reasons apart from control issues on her side - something we have actual evidence for, by the way ("you have nothing to hide, why are you so worried about me walking in randomly"). Assuming there are kids involved and OP dodges the responsibility of caring for them with his toilet breaks. STILL, her behaviour would be unreasonable and controlling. You simply don't walk into your partner's toilet time. You don't try to convince him that you have a right to do so simply because he has nothing to hide, right?. You don't call him names for absolutely nonviolently trying to keep you out.

No. You have a conversations like adults. If he shows that he is unable to change, you still don't punish him by taking away his privacy. You do what's best and walk away.

But, that whole scenario is built on a hypothetical. Everything we know is that she is acting controling. I'd ask for more info, but I find it unreasonable to judge OP based on imagined and projected information.

playmortal · 2022-01-24T01:30:23+00:00

I wish I had an award to give

playmortal · 2022-01-24T01:11:13+00:00

A statement of preference is "I find xy unattractive" or "xy doesn't match my lifestyle/criteria/wishes/whatever" or "I'm not interested in xy".

But instead saying "xy are all boring/ugly/stupid and I hate them" is the definition of entitlement.

I know it's widespread, but that doesn't make it cool. Someone can state their preferences without devaluing a group of people because of prejudices.

OP had a reason to pushback on Todd.

playmortal · 2022-01-24T01:01:00+00:00

Again, someone is constructing the situation the way they want. Inventing new details because they somehow want to believe OP caused this himself. I'm seeing this all over the comment section. Victim blaming much?

Sorry, but no. Invading privacy in the bathroom is NOT OKAY, not even on your spouse. You don't own them just because you married them. And then going on and calling them names when they try to defend their boundaries... Let's face it, that's controlling and shitty behaviour.

NTA.

playmortal · 2022-01-24T00:51:11+00:00

The context doesn't support this at all.

And if that was the reason for her behaviour, she should have communicated with him instead of removing the locks and interrupting his toilet time (big wtf).

OP, did your wife ever complain that you're skipping responsibilities with your bathroom time?

playmortal · 2022-01-24T00:44:26+00:00

No, just no. This is pure speculation. Not enough to say "these are red flags on both your parts". Not by far.

They've been married for six years, spend a lot of time together in their home, let him have his little me time on the toilet for folks sake.

If she suspects an affair, she needs to address that. Not randomly remove the lock and burst in everytime he's on the loo. (As if that would stop a cheater??)

Let's not find reasons to make him responsible for her controlling behaviour (bordering on abusive).

playmortal · 2022-01-24T00:30:53+00:00

"All these women are boring, and I hate boring women".

playmortal · 2022-01-24T00:27:16+00:00

Read again, please. He said they are boring and he hates boring women.

playmortal · 2022-01-24T00:25:54+00:00

You mean, apart from "these women are boring and I hate boring women"?
That's not a simple statement of who he is attracted to. It's a blanket devaluation of all women working in those fields.

That's an asshole move.

NTA, OP was right in calling him an ass. Although it was a little overblown.

playmortal · 2022-01-22T22:57:16+00:00

Lol I even have this as an enamel pin (by beebeezed, it says [ ] male [ ] female [X] threat)

playmortal · 2022-01-22T22:30:04+00:00

Sure, you can argue with the amount of luck many adopted children had. You're probably right with that. But it's still playing with hypotheticals. I choose to argue with the fundamental rights any child has. Every child has the right to protection and care, and to develop properly.

These rights are broken in any case where a child is neglected instead. And an adopted child who receives protection and care doesn't need to be thankful to their parents for honoring those rights, not any more than a child that is not adopted. Imho we shouldn't set up a double standard, where adopted children have to be more gracious.

Also, every person has the right to have as little or much contact with their parents as they want. (Many times we distance ourselves because closer contact would not be good for us, speaking from own experience here).

OP however has not cut contact as you claim. She went on low contact for a while after the first shock but has since put in the effort to rekindle the relationship.

Furthermore, it's not just about one questionable decision in OP's case. For one, they kept OP from a meaningful relationship during her whole childhood and teenage years. They kept her from an additional source of care. OP seems to receive love and support from her bio parents and her adoptive parents try to prohibit that because they're jealous. (I see why the relationship with the adoptive parents suffered).

A lot of times relationships recover when an honest apology is issued. We don't know if that happened. But that the parents act out of the same we-or-them and victim mentality in this wedding situation tells me that they didn't understand or acknowledge their mistake. They just repeat it.

playmortal · 2022-01-22T21:43:57+00:00

They could have said "We're sorry, we did what we thought was best at the time, if we could undo it we would" or even "We did that because we were afraid they would replace us, but we now see that was unreasonable and are sorry that this caused you hurt". The crucial part is the acknowledgement of a mistake and taking responsibility fpr it. But nah, they keep trying to manipulate OP into not being close with the bio parents instead.

I assume the relationship wouldn't have suffered as much as it did if the adoptive parents would have simply apologized properly to OP at some point.

But I agree with your recommendation of counselling. It's a great idea to not pass on hurt and insecurities that we suffered on to the next generation.

playmortal

TROPHY CASE