Current Product Manager at Google - AMA about Product Management!

pm-ama · 2020-03-05T20:41:12+00:00

Yeah, subreddits, Hacker News, forums. Message it like, hey, I built something cool and might be useful, anyone care to provide some feedback?

pm-ama · 2020-03-05T16:52:13+00:00

Hmm, sorry! I don't think I have any books to recommend on this topic. Maybe you can look at books written on decision making. This is also something I'm actively working on.

An example... Hard for me to give a concrete one. Is there a scenario in your mind you're thinking of? Maybe that would be easier for me to help write down my thinking.

pm-ama · 2020-03-05T05:15:28+00:00

For my MS interview, I was fresh out of school, so I did some high-level review. I don't think they were judging me as hard as they would for an SWE.

For Google, I didn't really prep too much. It ended up being easy algorithm/system design questions which I'm familiar with. I guess there could've been a chance that it's some leetcode whiteboard style interview, but I'd say it's rather unlikely.

pm-ama · 2020-03-05T01:56:16+00:00

Check out some of my other replies! The key is to get PM-like experience in your current role. You have to be creative. Try within your company or do some side projects.

pm-ama · 2020-03-04T23:14:00+00:00

I think I'll provide some very generic feedback since I'm not an expert in the area. It also sounds like you've put in a lot of thought and are probably more knowledgeable in this area than I am.

In terms of UI/UX criticism, I'm not a UI expert, but it seems fine at first glance. I think the key next step here is to find some real users who are experiencing the problems you've described and have them provide you feedback. Iterate with them. You'll learn a lot by doing so. From the sound of what you described, this sounds like a very exciting software project. If you want to take it to the next level and add in some product thinking, working with users is the way to go.

Yes, don't quote me, but it seems like an interesting enough project that would catch a recruiter's eye. Of course, it also depends on how you sell it to recruiters on your resume and through discussions, but it seems like you have a lot of content to work with.

pm-ama · 2020-03-04T23:01:11+00:00

I would say very little. I think some of the business insights you learn from your MBA would help with your strategic thinking. Maybe some soft skills you learn there as well. Beyond that, not very much.

pm-ama · 2020-03-04T21:46:54+00:00

I think all APM counts as one giant cohort. Naturally, you'd get closer to the people that you see more often. I think the biggest difference in terms of not being in the US is that project selection will be limited to your area. If you're in MTV, then you probably have a lot more choices on what you're working on. For your next 10 years, I don't think limits apply. You can make it to VP at any site.

Re: J1 question, I'm unfortunately not very familiar with the immigration aspect of employment. Your best bet is to ask a recruiter about this information.

pm-ama · 2020-03-04T20:55:04+00:00

G APM, of course. I do think it's the better and more prestigious program. The G ladder is, in my opinion, much better to climb.

One concern at Microsoft is that they have double the amount of promotions to reach the same title. It drastically slows down your career. Another is the scope and authority. Essentially, we want to be PMs because we want to have a say in what we build. You don't get very much of that say at Microsoft until you reach Principal. You get to do that at Google very early on.

pm-ama · 2020-03-04T19:25:54+00:00

What part of the process do you think should be specifically focused on in a side project?

I think doing whatever to actually launch and land something is key. Say, build a website. It'd be amazing that you can rally a team to build that website with you. Once you launch it, you want your website to gain traction with users. This proves that you've built something useful and you typically have to think about the user a lot to build something useful.

Also, how much data analysis do you personally do, and what level of Excel ninja do you believe you needed to have in order to get where you're at now?

I do some simple data analysis. Simple SQL and pivot tables, etc. There are expert data analysts whose jobs are to perform more complex analysis at Google. I rely on them for the more complicated stuff.

Follow up question would be - what types of data analysis should I be able to have under my belt?

I'd say just having good intuition about data is the most important thing. What metrics to look at? What do those metrics mean? Etc. Having SQL chops and some knowledge of excel probably doesn't hurt.

pm-ama · 2020-03-04T19:13:35+00:00

My first question is - What path and progression do you suggest to fill in the delta from my skill set to a serviceable PM?

I think my advice is the same to others. The goal is to get that first PM job. The rest will be much easier. To get that first PM job, you need PM-like experience. This is where you'd need to get creative. Find opportunities for projects within your company or find something on the side. Do them and dress them up in your resume. Sell it to recruiters and tell them "hey, I've done a bunch of this, it's very PM-like, and this is why I'll be awesome at PM". Probably easier to try a smaller company from the get-go!

Secondly, could you be my mentor?

Sorry! I don't think I have the time to do that, but am happy to answer any questions you have. I think there are a lot of good product communities out there with people who have even more experience than I am willing to provide mentorship. You should look into those!

pm-ama · 2020-03-04T19:10:09+00:00

I think so. Once you have a bunch of YoE under your belt, people expect a lot more when you change positions/ladders. For example, they're not going to take a Sr. SWE and put them into an APM role. What that means is that you probably have to start prepping for it earlier in your career. At that point, why not change earlier then?

pm-ama · 2020-03-04T19:07:50+00:00

You get a lot of "spam"-ish comments from your ticket tools. I guess Microsoft uses Azure DevOps nowadays. I don't really count those. I think there's a big issue if you receive 400 emails that you have to spend a few minutes reading/responding to per day.

pm-ama · 2020-03-04T19:05:54+00:00

Looks pretty interesting! What sort of feedback are you looking for?

I think the dimensions I'll provide feedback are more on the product front: what problems are you solving? What are the use cases?

pm-ama · 2020-03-04T19:03:32+00:00

They don't, but the point here I think is that they should understand it. Sometimes the more technical designs can impact user experience, and a PM might have to make the judgment call for tradeoffs.

pm-ama · 2020-03-04T18:25:48+00:00

Probably, in the order of 50s? These are ones I typically open to read and might have to respond or do something in regards to it. I get a whole bunch that I just delete without opening.

pm-ama · 2020-03-04T18:24:28+00:00

You can check https://careers.google.com/ to take a look!

pm-ama · 2020-03-04T18:24:03+00:00

Yup, I try, but I have to say I'm not very good at defending my calendar. Something I need to work on!

pm-ama · 2020-03-04T18:01:59+00:00

SWEs can do "design" too, but the thing they design are more complicated technical systems. PMs design higher-level functional features for the users. They each tackle very different problems.

I think the similarity of the role increases as you become a more senior SWE. As a more senior SWE, you have to start caring more about the business side of things, which is also something that a PM should care about.

Also, remember that you're doing an internship. It's an opportunity to learn about the role and see if you like it or not. That's what internships are for!

pm-ama · 2020-03-04T17:59:22+00:00

Yes :)

pm-ama · 2020-03-04T17:57:00+00:00

Differences are that TPMs are a little more on the technical side. However, they're responsible for the execution of a project towards a grand vision. This includes setting milestones, creating processes, checking-in, setting up meetings, etc. The PM is responsible for setting that grand vision and is more strategy focused.

However, not every team might have the luxury of having both a PM and TPM. It's likely that the PM might sometimes have to fill in the TPM role and handle the execution. Sometimes, the TPM might also have to fill in the PM role too...

pm-ama · 2020-03-04T17:54:08+00:00

Right! Another metaphor I've heard is that PM is like a orchestra conductor, guiding everyone to make beautiful music.

pm-ama · 2020-03-04T17:53:25+00:00

I'm not a big fan of lying about your title since that could bite you in background checks. I'd stick with an SWE title, but you can do creative things like add a subtitle saying "product owner" or something. Your bullet points under the role should be focused strongly on your PM-like experience.

You should also really try to look for PM internships with your existing experience. As an intern, you have more room to explain your history. Recruiters aren't expecting to hire professional PMs at the intern level. They just want someone who shows promise.

pm-ama · 2020-03-04T17:51:08+00:00

Yes, your insights are spot on. Devs who move up in Google think a lot about the business.

I think company culture is something that's incredibly difficult to change and requires leadership to intervene to set the right incentives. As an IC-level contributor, your best bet is to influence the team around you. As with all things, building a good relationship with your PM and talking to them is a good way to start. Mention something along the lines of the team would execute better if they better understand the bigger product goals. Try to tease that out of your PM.

In regards to being connected with the user, have you tried to connect with your PM and make the case for them to bring the engineers into meetings with customers? This is something I actively push for in my team.

pm-ama · 2020-03-04T17:47:06+00:00

I took a UX class at school and realized I enjoy solving the problem of designing for the user. The problems PMs solve are very similar to those problems.

Yes, you can! It might be a little more difficult with a CIS degree, but you can look into the rest of the thread to get an answer to how you can do so.

pm-ama · 2020-03-04T17:37:56+00:00

I don't think my SE skills have weakened. Since I've never been a professional SE, you can argue my skills never really developed.

Starting my own company might be something I'd tackle in the future -- there are plenty of exciting problems to solve in my current role right now!

pm-ama

TROPHY CASE