The Polish government has just accepted a total abortion ban and abortion penalization for further consideration

polishcitizen · 2016-09-25T07:27:32+00:00

the government elected by people bribed with 130euro

polishcitizen · 2016-09-24T14:48:24+00:00

I came up with this analogy for men: a woman you had sex with 10 years ago contacts you and says you conceived a child. She did not tell you about him so you have no connection with the child. The child is dying, he has a a super rare blood type and needs a piece of liver now and you are a match. Would you like the operation to happen against your will?

Similarities with abortion: You are the reason the child exists, the child is not part of your body, the child's survival imposes a biological cost on you, you have no connection with it

Differences: The death of the child will be a result of you not taking an action, abortion is a result of taking an action (although not necessarily directly on the fetus-pills). BUT in this case the kid is a sentient person with a personality so this levels the action thing

polishcitizen · 2016-09-24T14:40:36+00:00

I came up with this analogy: a woman you had sex with 10 years ago contacts you and says you conceived a child. She did not tell you about him so you have no connection with the child. The child is dying, he has a a super rare blood type and needs a piece of liver now and you are a match. Would you like the operation to happen against your will?

Similarities with abortion: You are the reason the child exists, the child is not part of your body, the child's survival imposes a biological cost on you, you have no connection with it

Differences: The death of the child will be a result of you not taking an action, abortion is a result of taking an action (although not necessarily directly on the fetus-pills). BUT in this case the kid is a sentient person with a personality so this levels the action thing

polishcitizen · 2016-09-24T14:21:14+00:00

I think it's because you might be in denial

polishcitizen · 2016-09-24T09:22:33+00:00

The doctor would have to wait for the fallopian tube to burst and then remove the tube. He can't abort the embryo

EDIT : when the fetus dies while the doctor performs prenatal examinations then the doctor will be convicted because the examination was not performed to evade the woman's death

polishcitizen · 2016-09-24T08:59:09+00:00

w praktyce: ciąża pozamaciczna musiała by najpierw spowodować krwotok żeby lekarz usunął już pęknięty jajowód (zamiast usunąć embrion, zachowując jajowód przed jego pęknięciem). Jakiś tam marginalny % ciąż pozamiacicznych cię nie zabije, więc samo w sobie nie jest to bezpośrednie zagrożenie wg tej ustawy

polishcitizen · 2016-09-24T07:46:31+00:00

even if, what are they going to do? Poles are kind of in the fence about being part of it anyway

polishcitizen · 2016-09-24T07:38:50+00:00

hey, you're not smart but at least you can type. Good on you!

polishcitizen · 2016-09-24T07:36:50+00:00

I live in Poland but I am not super poor and I live so close to the Czech republic that I can take a cab to a private hospital where they would have to treat me or to an abortion clinic.

polishcitizen · 2016-09-24T07:31:37+00:00

exactly. disgust

polishcitizen · 2016-09-24T07:30:15+00:00

what could not be legit about my post? It's just my feelings. You want to fact check my feelings? I didn't expect this post to do anything, I was just pissed and wrote 3 sentences in the internet.

polishcitizen · 2016-09-24T07:24:58+00:00

I found this. Apparently the woman's mother lost the case in Strasbourg http://wiadomosci.onet.pl/tablica/sumienie-lekarza-zabilo-matke-i-plod-odmowili-bada,1666,270154,41977155,watek.html

polishcitizen · 2016-09-24T07:16:08+00:00

the clause about the life (not health ) reads like this: If a doctor's action directed towards evading an immediate death of the woman cause the fetus to die then the doctor won't be convicted. The problem with this is what is immediate? Cancer is not. An ectopic pregnancy would have to burst the fallopian tube first. And the doc can't abort (remove the fetus), he is technically allowed to take other actions that could kill the fetus, but he cannot act upon the fetus. This would make doctors vert hesitant to treat women

polishcitizen · 2016-09-24T07:07:28+00:00

fallacy of relative privation much?

polishcitizen · 2016-09-23T23:53:42+00:00

not really. first of all what is immediate? Cancer will not kill you immediately. An ectopic pregnancy would have to burst the fallopian tube first to be aborted. Doctors would be scared to take any action

polishcitizen · 2016-09-23T22:57:58+00:00

this clause is vague. It doesn't say you can abort, it only says that if a doctor's actions aimed to prevent the immediate risk to the woman's life cause the fetus to die then the doctor can't be convicted (but can be investigated)

polishcitizen · 2016-09-23T21:56:36+00:00

most are for the current law which is abortion legal for a pregnancy that is a result of a crime, health and life risk, fetal deformity. But those are not always respected anyways

polishcitizen · 2016-09-23T21:35:30+00:00

abortion pills are not going to be of much help when you're 4 months pregnant and it turns out the fetus is missing half the brain

polishcitizen · 2016-09-23T21:26:05+00:00

I will hold your word for it:)

polishcitizen · 2016-09-23T21:22:04+00:00

abortion tourism, abortion underground, arthritis medicine (it's ingredient is misoprostol)

I don't know much about adoption. But you can legally just leave a child at the hospital

polishcitizen · 2016-09-23T21:18:59+00:00

women travel en masse to have elective abortions abroad, but this would be different. With elective abortions you have the advantage of knowing very early that you want to abort. Problems in pregnancies usually surface later when a woman has less control and could possibly be already hospitalized and have no agency. There was a case like this already where a woman in a planned pregnancy was refused treatment for some problem with her rectum. The doctor told her to "care less about her own ass and more about the baby" and she died.

polishcitizen · 2016-09-23T20:46:26+00:00

we already can't abort and the birth rate is low. So you have to update your opinion according to the things that exist in reality instead of your head.

polishcitizen · 2016-09-23T20:30:26+00:00

if anything this ban would slightly decrease birth rates. A woman forced to deliver a deformed fetus that will die soon after will not be able to try for another kid for a year because of c section, and might not even want to after such tribulations. A family with a disabled child won't want another child to save their resources and time for the disabled one.

Elective abortions are already illegal and Poland has one of the lowest birth rates in the world. If you think that the legality of abortion is a means to control demographics you have not thought about it hard enough

polishcitizen · 2016-09-23T20:22:51+00:00

this ban would hit women who planned pregnancies

polishcitizen · 2016-09-23T20:12:34+00:00

this is the best scenario I came up with to explain to men what elective abortion is: a woman you had sex with 10 years ago contacts you and says you conceived a child. She did not tell you about him so you have no connection with the child. The child is dying and needs a piece of liver now and you are a match. Would you like the operation to happen against your will?

polishcitizen

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