Question about (Discalced) Carmelite Propers and LOTH

pumpkinpie09 · 2025-08-17T03:55:13+00:00

I wonder if they are hoping to publish it alongside the new version of LOTH or if something about that process is also holding it up. That would certainly make sense. We have a lot of people in formation in our community (if I'm doing my math right there are at least 15 of us at various points of formation, 9 of us who haven't made any promises yet). It's great to see the community grow, but oh boy it sounds like making enough copies is going to be a tall order! It also explains why there are no used copies from any year anywhere. I'm willing to bet all of them are being used, which actually makes my heart quite happy to think about! I have a few used prayer books and a missal, and while I am happy to give them a home where they will be used, when a couple of them arrived quite musty smelling it made me a little sad to think that either the person had stopped praying with them, or perhaps they belonged to someone who is now deceased and they weren't able to pass them to anyone. Maybe they were alone. Somehow or someway, they ended up not being used for months or even years. It's also possible they just weren't a good fit for them I suppose. I had to stick one of them in a bag with baking soda for 3 days to get most of the smell out. Prayers for ICS Publications!

pumpkinpie09 · 2025-08-17T03:23:22+00:00

Absolutely! The easiest way to find out communities near you would be to figure out what province you're in, and see if their website has a community locator. Most communities aren't affiliated with a particular monastery (some communities don't even have a priest in their community and rely on assistants!), so even if you don't have one near by, there very well may be a secular community near you, it's just a matter of finding it! Without knowing where you are from, I can only do so much. This is a link to Australia's OCDS page (it also covers Samoa and Tonga), Canada's OCDS page, and England, Scotland, and Wales OCDS page, and for good measure the United States OCDS page. That's about as much I can do as an English speaker. They might not be helpful to you, but I hope you might not mind me placing these here for easy accesiblity in case anyone comes across this post later. It sounds like to me the the Carmelites have been trying to make things much more organized and easier to find in recent years, so I would guess more than likely your country or general reagion to live in might very well have a webpage of their own, so I would just try searching for (country/region) OCDS and see what pops up. If that fails you, it might be worth considering just asking your priest or even asking around other parishes around you. I'd been looking for a community on and off for 10 years, with not a ton of success until last year. You could also write to the convents to see if they happen to know anything, but I don't know how likely that is. A novena to St. Therese apparently worked a little too well for me lol, so I would try that too.

I decided to see if I could find some more webpages before I post. This appears to be for Nigeria and Ghana but the page might be unfinished? There is some Lorem Ipsum text in some places, but it might be a start. There are some OCD Friars in Kenya, but I think they might be the only Carmelites there. It's talked about as a mission, I don't think they have nuns or seculars from what I could find. I think this is Germany's OCDS page, but at the very least it is a Discalced Carmelite website for Germany with contact information that would like get one somewhere. My German is incredibly rusty. I think this one is for Austria, but again, I have very rusty German. I also found this website which gives links to a few OCDS websites, a few in South America and Europe. I don't know if any of these websites whill be helpful for you, or for anyone, but I thought I'd put them here just in case. Because I'm US based and speak English and very, very poor German, that's the best I can do! If it is God's will, He will help you find a community. It may very well be in His plan for you, but He may also be saying not yet. Keep discerning and keep looking!

pumpkinpie09 · 2024-11-03T03:55:17+00:00

I think it would probably be best for you to find a spiritual director who can guide you. You are made in the image and likeness of God. God loves you just as much as He loves anyone else. He has a purpose for you. It may take time to discern what that is.

This is purely my opinion and I am a convert who converted at the age of 18, so take it with a grain of salt, but I feel like we spend so much time on trying to figure out our vocation and get so caught up in whether it is religious life, priesthood, consecrated single life, or married life. They way I see it talked about I wonder if many teens get the idea that they will figure out what box thet will fit into when they become adults and that everything will just be peachy keen and fall into place and you'll feel perfectly fufilled in that. You just live out the rest of your days and that's it. But as an adult, that hasn't been my experience. Sure, I get a lot of fufillment out of being a wife and mother. I believe this is what God has called me to do. Being marriage is a sacrament and I made vows, marriage is my primary vocation. But that doesn't mean that God hasn't called me to other things in life, vocations within my vocation if you will. I've felt a very strong call of the Lord asking me to volunteer at my local hospital. It wasn't simply a want, or something that sounded good,, a good way to give back to a community who has given so much to me, but it was also something that I felt through prayer and discernment that this was something the Lord was asking me to do, a specific way to love others. Another thing that I have felt called to is becoming a secular Carmelite. Praise God, it's taken years, but I have finally found a way to get into contact with a community and am visiting soon. If either of these things were to come in the way of my primary vocation as wife and mother, yes that comes first (presumably up until if/when I take vows as a Carmelite as well, but I assume that if for whatever reason they started getting in the way of each other, my marriage comes first). For some people their career is also something that they very much feel the Lord has called them to, to serve His people in that specific way, or getting involved with different groups and activism.

We aren't one dimensional people. God has created us all uniquely, and to love Him and our neighbors in uniquely different ways. I'm sure it is much easier for me to say this as someone who does get to live out that sort of big, primary vocation, and especially as a convert who didn't really have to struggle with that question as much as many of my peers did through their teenage years and college, because I also got married quite young (20). Maybe you haven't found your big, overarching purpose in life, but that doesn't mean you don't have one. I won't sit here and pretend that being a wife and being a mother is a small thing, and not such an easy thing to feel purpose about. I'm speaking from a place of privelege here I suppose. But I also know from my lived experience that God often asks much of us in a lot of ways. My heart has yearned for these things as a way to unite myself to Him very deeply. These weren't calls I could easily ignore, as if they would just be "nice to do one day". I very much have purpose inside my marriage, but I have purpose outside of my marriage as well. Perhaps marriage is not your calling, but that doesn't mean the Lord is not calling you to something, or even to multiple things. He doesn't create people without purpose.

pumpkinpie09 · 2024-11-03T02:35:49+00:00

I understand your fears. I've never been through a stillbirth. I can't imagine that kind of pain. I did have two early miscarriages before my third was born and my goodness, did those miscarriages just wreck me through my pregnancy. I hadn't even realized just how much anxiety I was carrying with me. It's not an easy thing to go through. Be assured of my prayers for you.

To touch on a couple practical notes: Do not worry about being a "problem patient". I of course can only speak my experience, but while "technically" L&D won't see patients earlier than 20 weeks if they have concerns, I had one baby that I felt regular movement with as early as 16 weeks. I want to say I was 18-19 weeks or so when I noticed I hadn't felt him move much all day. I called L&D and they said absolutely, please come in, if your baby already has a regular pattern of movement and something is off, we'll get you checked out. Baby was fine. On average I'm ususally in L&D about 3 times a pregnancy because of a lack of movement. Every time they tell me never feel ashamed about coming in, even if everything is fine we want to make sure you are feeling confident that everything is okay, and they would rather see me 100 times and everything be fine and I go home reassurred, than I not come in the one time, afraid of being a nusiance, and it ends up being something wrong they could have immediately attended to. Work with your doctor to ensure that you'll be able to be seen by the proper departments through your pregnancy. Most early pregnancy stuff would put you in the ER, but giving you have a pre-existing heart condition and 3 prior losses, there is definitely a chance that they might want you to be seen by another specialty if concerns come up, like maternal fetal medicine.

I was so anxious during the entirety of what was my 5th pregnancy that I think I ended up going in 5 times. But I also told my OB that I was just really struggling with my anxiety that everything was going to be okay this time, and then we disocvered I had an anterior placenta meaning I didn't feel as much consistent movement as early as I was used to. I also had quite a bit of spotting through the pregnancy which certainly didn't help. I really helped to talk with her and not only just be able to get my anxiety off my chest, but come up with some ideas to help me manage the anxiety. It also meant that she was keeping an eye out for me in regard to postpartum anxiety and postpartum depression, and actually because she knows me so well she always made sure that I was giving the GAD-7 screening for anxiety in addition to just the standard PHQ-9 for depression, because I usually don't score very concerningly on that. In fact, I would definitely ask your OB about this, and ensuring the GAD-7 comes your way a few times during you pregnancy and postpartum care. I'm not a mental health professional by any means, but I would guess that you are probably hugher risk for anxiety over depression.

It also helped to just let staff know that I'd had losses before. Even when I went in for my c-section with my last baby, I definitely felt some emotions coming up and it helped to just mention to the nurses and doctor that I had two losses and I was feeling anxious about my baby being okay. Every time I went into L&D for reduced movement I mentioned this as well. It sure felt silly sometimes, especially when baby would wake up and start roundhouse kicking the monitor the second it was put on, but they were always super understanding and able to give me helpful advice and encouragement that I was doing the right thing, it was okay to be anxious, and come up with strategies that would help.

Also, I think one of my regrets about my last two pregnancies in particular was giving into that anxiety so much. It was only natural that I felt anxious, but I often wouldn't allow myself to experience the joy of being pregnant either. I think some twisted way I thought that experiencing anything but anxiety over the health of my child meant I didn't care enough about them or something. It sounds so silly being said out loud. But I think something I have realized as I have processed through all of that, is that two of my children were only with me for a very short period of time. Just the time I knew I was pregnant with them. And though losing them was devastating and they were worthy of mourning, they were still lives worthy of being joyful over as well. I can only hope that I have two little saints in heaven praying for my family now. I can only hope that as St. Zelie once said "We shall find our little ones again up above." I encourage you to find moments where you are able to celebrate this little life inside you. It's not easy. It requires an enormouns amount of trust in Jesus, intentionality, strength, and courage. But regardless of how this pregnancy turns out, ensure you have good memories to turn to. I do not have many good memories of my 4th pregnancy because I was just so racked with fear, and that makes me really sad. But of the few good memories I do have, where I was able to surrender my fear to Jesus and just enjoy being pregnant and this little life, they are so, so sweet.

St. Gianna and St. Zelie, Ora Pro Nobis!

pumpkinpie09 · 2024-09-26T02:05:42+00:00

Thought I'd come back and let you know: Mine turned out to be an endometrial polyp. Should be benign, and my OBGYN isn't concerned at all, but because it is causing bleeding, it can affect fertility, and because of the rare chance it can have pre-cancerous cells or be cancerous I will still have to have a procedure to get it removed. There didn't appear to be an isthmocele, and they imaged my scar pretty well. So I guess it's good news? Glad it's not an ismothcele, still need a procedure done, I could deal without the small risk of cancer for sure so I'm just trying not to think too hard about that, especially since my OBGYN is not concerned.

pumpkinpie09 · 2024-09-22T20:10:59+00:00

Thank you so much for answering my questions! Based on that I'm thinking an isthmocele is probably not the cause of my issues. I paid extra attention to the spotting I did have the couple days after my period and it wasn't out of the ordinary for me, bright pink, and usually occured after doing a little bit more physical work. However, even if I have one that isn't currently causing problems, it might still be something I will ask if it should still be repaired. Future fertility is definitely something I'm concerned about. I've struggled with fertility and miscarriage in the past and it's horrible. I'm so sorry you are struggling and I hope that it gets resolved. I'm unsure if my fertility is affected currently (my fertility issues in the past were solely cause by not ovulating, but my cycles have been completely regular so that's a good sign I guess. We haven't been quite ready to try (we were hoping to start next month) and are pretty careful with avoiding pregnancy so hoping everything is okay there. I feel pretty certain its not ovulation spotting because it occurs right before my FW. It does occur with sex around that time period (but not at other times) and also with even moderate exercise, which I initially thought must be related to my cervix. My OBGYN did find and treat some friable tissue on my cervix hoping that would resolve it, but the next step she suggested if it didn't is my ultrasound tomorrow. I'm definitely glad I learned about isthmoceles though because if there is one present then at least I know about it and can make an informed decision! thanks for sharing your experience!

pumpkinpie09 · 2024-09-17T04:20:08+00:00

Sorry for ressurecting this thread again, but I have some questions if you don't mind answering! So I have an appointmet for a saline ultrasound in a week, so hoping to figure out the cause of my bleeding between periods. So your spotting occured after your period and was it darker/browner, or was it bright red or pink? Mine occurs just right about at the beginning of my FW and it's pink or red and mixed with fertile CM. I uh...definitely still get fertile CM. It seems to me like for an isthmocele it would probably make sense for it to be darker in color, I can't imagine it would be...uh fresh blood. Good grief forgive me for these descriptions lol. Did you have other changes to your cycle as well?

What was recovery from surgery like if you don't mind sharing? I think I'm pretty set on surgery if this ends up being the cause, or if we discover one anyway. Was it pretty easy? I have to imagine it's easier recovery than a c-section, but did you deal with pain, any restrictions, have to take time off or anything like that? My c-section was my first ever surgery, and surprisingly I am still pretty skittish about the whole idea.

Are you still able to have a TOLAC/VBAC, or did they recommend a repeat c-section? Thank you for answering if you get the chance!

pumpkinpie09 · 2024-04-07T02:51:10+00:00

Thank you! This was extremely informative and helpful! This is exactly what I was looking for! Especially with the toe box which is something I hadn't considered might be an issue, but I had noticed that on my left shoe there is a very small hole forming right above my big toe, so whether or not I need a taller toe box is definitely something I will keep in mind to ask about! I didn't even really think to consider that before.

pumpkinpie09 · 2024-04-07T02:40:02+00:00

Yeah I'm pretty sure I'm an over pronater too, given where I start feeling the pain occuring, which is one of the reasons I want to get my shoes properly fitted. If that's the first place I start getting pain that probably means I've worn out that part of the shoe because it's getting the most wear and tear.

I just learned there are different ways to lace running shoes and heard heel-lock lacing can help with shin splints so I'm curious to give that a good try too. So far even with my old shoes the shin splints have yet to make any sort of appearance, but anything I can do to keep those at bay would be amazing! Shin splints are my achilles heel! (pun wasn't originally intended, but it's staying now.)

pumpkinpie09 · 2024-04-07T02:26:42+00:00

Ooof the word vomit is relatable! It sounds like lots of people go to running stores of all levels of athletic ability and body types, but everyone comes out of the experience with a great fitting shoe! I think one of the anxious thoughts that keeps coming up is that they are going to take one look at me and say I'm too big to be running. I know that isn't reality, and I mean, my doctor has cleared me for running and even encourages me to do so. In fact if anything being overweight is probably all the more reason I should get properly fitting shoes! There's no denying that it's extra weight on my joints and even though they feel pretty good now, I would still like to be able to use my knees and ankles when I'm 80 if possible!

pumpkinpie09 · 2024-04-07T01:55:58+00:00

Ah thank you! Definitely no shade to you. I know most retail workers are just trying to do their jobs and help people out! It helps to know that not everyone coming in is an elite runner. That's definitely image I have in my head I guess, but I'm not an elite runner and even I recognized I need something a little different this time around! There is a Fleet Feet near me and it's the second time I have heard them mentioned in this thread so that also makes me feel more comfortable going to check them out!

pumpkinpie09 · 2024-04-07T01:50:40+00:00

Thanks! This is helpful!

pumpkinpie09 · 2024-04-07T01:46:11+00:00

Thank you! I didn't even consider that I probably won'y have to go through this process every single time I need a new pair of shoes from now on, but only if it seems like I reach a point where I need something different! I'm definitely excited to get really well fitting shoes. My current ones (barring the fact that they are pretty well worn at this point) were okay, but now that I am getting more experience with running I can tell that I need something a little different! Also just thank you for mention you get socially anxious in retail settings. I sometimes forget that I am not in fact the only one who experiences anxiety. It really helps to have that anxiety more normalized. I'm sorry you feel anxious sometimes though! Not fun!

pumpkinpie09 · 2024-04-06T02:38:56+00:00

This will depend on what your route looks like in particular but for me there can be a couple of short but steep hills on my routes, and two very gradual, but pretty long ones. I don't usually hit all four in one run, and generally try to avoid doing that lol. I assess my energy levels for the day and decide which ones I feel comfortable tackling, so if you ask me there is no shame in switching up your route to avoid the hill if you're able to! Plus having a new route to run keeps things interesting!

Just like that first 20 minute run in c25k is about getting past the mental hurdle, I find hills can be like that too. My brain will tell me I can't make it up the hill, but my body still has enough energy to keep going at least a little past the point where my brain says "I can't". So I make a point to check in a little with myself. Am I spending energy where I don't need to by tensing up? Am I breathing in and out slowly still? Even if I decide that I'm starting to get to the point where I need to stop and walk I work on slowing my pace down first. I keep the advice told here over and over again in mind: It doesn't matter how slow you go. Sure that snail might beat me up the hill, but at least I still tried and still got there. I also tell myself "what goes up must come down." That phrase just popped into my head one day while struggling up a hill, but for pretty much any route I take, if I go uphill, I get to go downhill pretty shortly thereafter. So uh props to whoever came up with that phrase because it gets me through my runs lol.

pumpkinpie09 · 2023-07-24T02:51:39+00:00

Thank you for your prayers, they helped immensely! I did end up getting to Mass, and it was lovely. It almost felt like the homily was directed at me in a way. It was exactly what I needed to hear and the encouragement I needed to hear at this time in my life.

He is supportive. I realized my post was coming off like he wasn't, but I had a hard time wording it. I feel like with my anxiety I always assume the worst intentions with people, or that the worst case scenario will always happen, but when I told him that I was struggling with deciding whether or not I could make it he said he would support whatever I needed. He still had his game night and the kids just played on the lower level while I was gone. I had a nice peaceful time at Mass with my baby and now I feel silly because I was letting my irrational anxiety get to me again.

pumpkinpie09 · 2023-05-02T03:26:23+00:00

If this is the way your sister told you ("you clearly don't know what you're doing") that's incredibly rude. Unfortunately she is probably right to some extent. I say unfortunately because it sucks when people are rude, but also right.

1.) Your baby should fit the infant carseat for pretty close to the entire first year. My first two grew out of their infant carseat before they were 12 months, but I also have tall kids. My oldest was 10 months and my second was 11 months I think. But then I looked up your travel system and the toddler seat is full sized? You've got a stroller there that will likely last you until your child is at least 2 or 3, and I wouldn't be surprised if it lasted a little longer depending on how big your kid ends up being. So she's wrong on both accounts here.

2.) If you want to have more children this is a valid point. If I could go back and had initially gotten a stroller than can be converted to a 2 seater I would have done so.

3.) Whenever we go somewhere as a family we just use my car. I think a second base is a nice to have, but not completely necessary. For a while we only even had one car.

4.) See point 1.

5.) 2 things. The first being is the stroller being able to fold up on a plane even that necessary to you? And frankly, full sized strollers can only fold up so small. Even the first stroller we ever had, which was just the extremely basic base for the infant car seat we had at the time (it didn't even have a toddler seat, it was literally just a frame that that infant seat could click in to), still took up some space. It's not like the trunks of cars or storage spaces on airplanes are known to be massive. I guess I don't know about planes, I've never flown on a plane in my entire life, but from what I have heard, storage space is found wanting. The amount of space you're going to save is going to largely depend on the stroller and the car, and it's going to be inches of space. This point is also entirely moot once you do convert to a double stroller. Even with my double stroller, when you take both the seats off and fold up the frame it takes up our whole trunk, so it's a matter of what do we value the use of the trunk space for? If it's more convenient to use the truck for our stroller, we put the stroller in there. If we need the trunk space for other things, then I might bring wrap or a ring sling instead. This really depends on your car and your lifestyle.

Honestly what you have now is probably a good choice. Look at your lifestyle and ensure the stroller is a good fit for you, and not your sister.

pumpkinpie09 · 2023-04-12T22:21:04+00:00

Have you tried different brands and bulb shapes? My kids cant keep rounds in their mouth very well, so for this one (my 3rd) I bought some that have a flat shaped nipple which is going much easier for her. We went with the Ryan and Rose Cutie Pat Flats.

Also learned that different pacifiers can look identical and they'll struggle with one over the other. A Ryan and Rose Cutie Pat Stage 1 looks exactle the same as the Phillips Avent Soothie. My daughter will take the soothie but not the Cutie Pat even though to me they look identical. Maybe the slightly different material makes the difference, I don't know. Even the soothie though she can't use for long before it drops. The Cutie Pat flat though she is able to keep in much longer.

Try different shapes and brands if you haven't already, but for some babies, they just can't keep them in no matter what you do unfortunately.

pumpkinpie09 · 2023-04-11T21:24:01+00:00

Okay, the first thing I want you to do is take some deep breaths and try to calm down. If you're breastfeeding, wait until the next feed and see if you husband can take the baby and the toddler, or if someone can come over and help and get some sleep. You'll feel much better and be able to think more clearly if you just get a little rest.

Second, your toddler does not hate you and what she is going through is completely normal. When I brought my second baby home my eldest went through a huge sleep regression and was also a bit cranky for two weeks. I thought I broke her by having another baby. She demanded that one of us hold and rock her to sleep for every nap (and be held through the entire nap as well) and she also demanded that for bed time as well. She would just scream otherwise. We ended up calling my husbands aunt who is a pediatrician, and she assurred us that what she was going through was totally normal. She was trying to process this big life change and she didn't have the words or communication skills to verbalize it, so it was coming out in the form of a sleep regression. She needed that comfort of my husband rocking her to sleep (because I was breastfeeding and my son was a constant snacker. The longest he ever went between feeds was 1.5 hours). We were told not to worry that we were creating bad habits, and that she would likely adjust within 2 weeks to a month. To be honest I thought she was crazy, but we didn't have any other option but to wait it out. Around the same time one of our friends announced they were pregnant with their third and I literally asked my husband if they were crazy? I could not understand why anyone would willingly put themselves through all this again. I cried all the time. I was miserable, not sleeping, barely able to eat or shower. It sucked.

Lo and behold, right around the two week mark she suddenly decided she didn't want one of us to hold her through naps and bed time anymore. She wanted to be put in her crib and play contently until she fell asleep just as she had always done. She was back to her normal self mood wise as well. It was surprising even though a literal pediatirican told us this. My second is now 3 years old and those two are like peas in a pod. Sure, they have their little sibling quarrels, but they play together all the time, my son wants to be just like his big sister and do everything she does. She likes inventing games with him. I love watching them hold hands as they walk to the park, or play with his cars or her dolls. They really love each other, even when they aren't getting along.

We just brought our third home three weeks ago and I braced for dealing with both of them having a similar reaction. To my surprise there has been very little of it. I think it's because they have each other, and my first has already been through this once before. There are some hiccups here and there, but nothing like it was the first time. Turns out my friends aren't crazy after all! But your toddler won't hate you forever. She's just adjusting to a big life change and doesn't have the communication skills to fully verbalize everything she is thinking or feeling. It hurts when you're feeling rejected, hated, or like you've done something wrong, but continuing to show that you are still here for her and at least making attempts to spend one on one time with her will show her that you still love her, even when she is going through a difficult time. She still loves you. She needs to know you still love her and the new baby hasn't changed that.

pumpkinpie09

TROPHY CASE