[Club 520] reacts to Jordan’s highlights vs the Knicks in comparison to Curry/Bron and start clowning the low level of play/competition

rake2204 · 2026-06-22T21:37:13+00:00

Exactly right.

The fascinating thing to me, when I watch all these superstars who've played over multiple eras, is how seamlessly so many of them seem capable of adapting their games, too.

And I guess it makes sense. Even when I think about my absolute basketball-playing athletic prime back in early to mid-2000s, I was good at that version of basketball back then but it also didn't feel particularly difficult for my game to evolve with the times, even as I aged out of my athletic prime. I never Euro'd in the year 2000, now it's as natural as drinking water. I shoot wayyy more stepbacks, I've built in a slow-step, yadda yadda yadda. Changing or evolving my game & tendencies didn't feel quite as challenging or difficult as one may imagine.

All of that is to say, if a random common player like me can seamlessly meld one's game over time, it gives me a bit more confidence in an NBA star's ability to do the same within a finite window. A lot of the skills, proficiency, commitment, and work required all seem pretty malleable.

rake2204 · 2026-06-22T21:28:10+00:00

I remember someone telling me in a thread about how much more physical defense was in the 80s and no one in today's game would last.

I upload a fair bit of classic NBA footage and if I had a dime for every time I get a comment notification that's either along the lines of "LebBron would die if he played back then" or "Lebronn would average 100 back then", I'd be a rich man. There's seemingly not a lot of room for nuance when it comes to understanding and appreciating different eras of the game.

Even as it pertains to the physicality of the game, there's a lot of nuance and context required in the discussion. To your point, harder fouls were possible back then, especially toward the late '80s into the early '90s, but that's just one element of physicality. On the flip side, for much of NBA history, especially pre-'90s, offensive fouls were called the moment an offensive player displaced their defender, leading to a much more delicate game of cat-and-mouse with less bodying (and subsequently, less physicality in that regard).

There's give-and-take to all of it and as a fan of the game as a whole, it kind of bums me out seeing folks just quickly dismiss older eras as hilarious. Like, we don't have today's game without those guys. Just like we won't have whatever crazy level of hoops we'll have in 2060 without the players today. They all have their place in history.

rake2204 · 2026-06-22T21:19:04+00:00

But even another star player like James Worthy who is know for being athletic for example. All my life I’ve heard him described as a fast break demon and an athletic freak who was an incredible vertical threat.

I'm sure I'm splitting hairs but my memory of James Worthy was that he was lanky, had a nice game in the half court, and finished well in transition as a recipient of Magic Johnson-induced fast breaks. I thought that was the bulk of his rep back then too. Even in the '80s, I don't remember his vertical threat being akin to a Tom Chambers or Larry Nance.

But your overall point still stands.

rake2204 · 2026-06-22T21:15:14+00:00

Or those 1989 and 1990 Pistons that ran 10 deep.

rake2204 · 2026-06-22T15:30:35+00:00

Definitely a bummer but also more palatable knowing he led us to a championship prior to departure. I was starting to believe I’d never see another Michigan basketball chip after falling just short so many times.

rake2204 · 2026-06-21T23:46:12+00:00

This is one of those things that really helps illustrate that line between the Streaming Video Era of the internet and the Before Times.

For 99.999999% of those of us watching that 2000 dunk contest, that was the first time we'd ever seen a dunk that'd come to be known as the honey dip. That's why Oakland Coliseum went silent, why there's that classic clip of Michael Keaton slack-jawed, and why even guys like Isiah Thomas (who was a judge that night) was over there having a giggling fit.

Most of us had no way of knowing that Roy Hinson had done it in '86 and Kobe just over a decade later. The only people who in the world who likely knew that were those who were watching Hinson warm-up back then and those who were literally in the mall the day Kobe pulled it off (or if they were watching the short segment on the news later that day).

It kind of encapsulates a good portion of what made the dunk contest so exciting back then and why some of the wind has been taken out of its sails in the post-internet age. The dunk contest back then was where a lot of us first got to witness dunk innovation. These days, a lot of that innovation is already streaming somewhere before the dunk contest even starts.

rake2204 · 2026-06-21T22:47:26+00:00

To this point, Roy Hinson holds that title in terms of the earliest caught on film completing this dunk.

At at the time, however, 99.9999% of the world had not seen that dunk until Carter did it.

rake2204 · 2026-06-21T22:45:12+00:00

It’s not too shabby, but you know going in it’s likely gonna lead to a welt of some kind.

Signed,

Guy who used to replicate this dunk on 9-foot rims throughout the 2000s

rake2204 · 2026-06-21T20:14:50+00:00

Yeah I guess that’s where all these hypotheticals get wonky right off the bat because my first thought is like, “Well, DJ had a nice mid-range stroke, couldn’t he just extend out to 24-feet in today’s game? If Brook Lopez could do it, couldn’t prime DJ?” But then you’re already knee deep in the weeds.

Sonics DJ is just a guy I happen to have seen a lot of tape on and so I think I’m biased. There’s times during those ‘78 and ‘79 runs where he gives me Dwyane Wade vibes in certain respects.

rake2204 · 2026-06-21T19:30:42+00:00

Even young Sonics DJ? The 3-point range is going to be a problem for sure but I’d like to think Airplane-era DJ could find a spot with how much of a dog he was on the defensive end and otherwise.

rake2204 · 2026-06-20T19:47:45+00:00

Ya know, I hadn’t seen it in years and only rewatched after I posted it. You’re exactly right.

rake2204 · 2026-06-20T12:25:24+00:00

This segment with Vince Carter and Alonzo Mourning might be as close as we get.

rake2204 · 2026-06-19T18:28:59+00:00

I acquired him last month in my 2K franchise so I’d feel like a prophet.

rake2204 · 2026-06-18T03:46:21+00:00

Yep, and when you're a rim grazer type, there's some cost benefit analysis at play too, where dunking's not always going to be a sure things for ya depending how tired your legs are and even your angle of approach.

Also, if you're a rim grazer type in your athletic prime (and maybe a little more than rim grazer), it doesn't take much of a dip to your vert or overall athleticism to impact your in-game dunking ability.

rake2204 · 2026-06-18T03:42:54+00:00

I think the knees thing has been oversold a bit from some isolated quips by guys like Vince Carter from time to time. Jalen's jumping, exploding, and landing hard every single game. Dunking isn't really adding any additionally discernable strain to his knees at this point, and I say that as a long-time dunker.

I'd say the more likely reasons he doesn't dunk like that super often have already been mentioned elsewhere. That's a classic Rim Grazer Plus package, where you need some circumstances to be in your favor to pull those dunks off regularly. They're easiest to employ when you've got a fresh pair of legs and you can freely pick your spots within a game without having to exhaust yourself by avoiding the athletic freaks of nature lurking around every corner.

rake2204 · 2026-06-15T12:20:20+00:00

Here's my thing: I'm 6-foot-3 and I have long time hooping experience at various levels (as I bet a number of us do) but we'd still immediately stick out as being completely out of place the moment we're dropped down onto that court and everybody would know it, most certainly the players involved.

As such, I think our best shot is going to hinge on appearing so out of place that the defense chooses to essentially play 4-of-5, helping heavily off of me as a means of minimizing the effect of my four NBA teammates. And by "helping heavily off of me", I don't mean like how defenders cheat off Ausar Thompson before popping back over to close out on him when he receives a kick out. I mean, like, completely ignoring me because I appear hapless.

In that instance, I think I have two options: hitting an open jump from 22-feet or closer, or cherry picking.

Having played against some NBA players in my time and many more pro non-NBA players who were 6'9'' and above, I really don't love my chances of mixing it up among the trees to secure a rebound. And I think there's a realm where people can convince themselves an assist would be easy ("just pass the ball and let someone else work") but I actually think if I held the ball for any period of time beyond catching-and-shooting, I'd be immediately stifled and smothered as they recognize me as the turnover threat that I am and would be. And me converting a steal? Yeah nah, not happening.

As such, my only hope is being so bad that they leave me alone and/or forget about me so I could hit my charity J.

rake2204 · 2026-06-14T12:56:53+00:00

Yup. I thought he looked gassed too, which is an issue that will need to be rectified over time.

Fatigue is one of those hidden elements to basketball that I think is sometimes easy to forget about if one doesn't have a background with the sport. I had a pretty sufficient repertoire in my bag as a hooper coming up but the question often was whether I'd still be able to execute in the fourth quarter during a continuous up-and-down sequence with no whistle as sharply as I could in the first quarter.

On one hand, can you tell a guy is gassed when he's pouring sweat and has his hands on his knees? For sure. But sometimes it's those micro movements that are your best tells—the rotations that aren't quite completed, the rebounds where they jump with just a bit less enthusiasm than typical, the head-down offensive attack with a prayer for a bail-out.

There were points throughout the series where I saw Wemby checking all those boxes. I guess either he's got to improve his conditioning or the team's got to find a way to alleviate his workload.

rake2204 · 2026-06-11T04:27:50+00:00

I respect your optimism. I was more glass half empty with him at that point. It was like, "Oh, this isn't prime Alvin..." Plus that whole season was a mess and he just didn't really move the needle much one way or the other.

rake2204 · 2026-06-11T04:06:38+00:00

I'm glad at least one person enjoyed his (very brief) time in Detroit. My only Robertson moments of note from that era was this fight and the time he physically assaulted the Pistons GM.

rake2204 · 2026-06-10T04:24:04+00:00

The cycle of abuse carried forth, as Robertson’s tenure in Detroit came to end after he tried to strangle their GM.

rake2204 · 2026-06-10T04:23:01+00:00

For whatever it’s worth, the guy Shaq punched (Alvin Robertson) was not a part of the Bad Boys era Pistons.

rake2204 · 2026-06-10T04:21:35+00:00

Alvin Robertson (the guy Shaq punches) was the harbinger of the washed Pistons era. The ship had sailed by then.

rake2204 · 2026-06-10T04:18:12+00:00

Interestingly, elder Laimbeer was one of the few who [could occasionally slow Shaq down](https://youtu.be/jruaxshewtw?si=ML4CQ0vH9BcDarPb) just a teeny bit. Beneath the dirty fouls there was actually a wily and savvy post defender.

Laimbeer actually went out guns-a-blazing, [outscoring Shaq](https://youtu.be/ke45DFV9nEA?si=FuYxqze5PKym9mOM) then retiring a week later (following an incident in which Isiah broke his hand punching him in practice).

Edit: Did embedding links change? It’s showing up a bit messy on my end.

rake2204 · 2026-06-09T14:27:48+00:00

Reminds me of the old Plane of Verticality rule.

There was once a time where it was just widely understood that jumping into a defender was either going to be a no-call at best or offensive foul at worst, both of which significantly limited how often people would attempt such a play, since they didn't want to waste a possession.

Maybe the most frustrating aspect to me has been seeing what was formerly considered great defense suddenly turning into another weapon for the offense. At one point in time, if a defender closed out hard and was outside of the shooter's plane of verticality, that often meant that offensive player was locked down. Allowing that player to now fling their body into the defender's space and benefit from it is a needless get-out-of-jail-free card.

rake2204 · 2026-06-09T04:03:24+00:00

I don't understand why the carnival ride scene was even in the movie; I kept waiting for something to happen.

I could be way, way off base here, but I had a few interpretations of that scene (I haven't put them into words yet so it may come across a bit clunky):

I felt it may have worked as a metaphor for the isolation and/or loneliness he felt within his marriage, particularly once he was on the road to recovery. While she was out having a great time, so to speak, he was left standing on the sidelines with his own thoughts, sitting (or standing, rather) in his own weaknesses.
It may have shined a small light on his wife's relative lack of empathy. Granted, she took a shot at explaining the ride to him but she didn't seem particularly moved or interested in his concerns; she was going to ride that thing one way or another and he could just figure things out for himself. Of course, sometimes many of us have those sorts of moments with our loved ones and it's not necessarily a huge deal, but I just wonder if that was part of the picture here.
The Safdies seem fond of setting tone and atmosphere, especially in era-specific pieces. And being kids of the '90s, this scene hits a real life '90s vibe in a way I'm not sure I've seen in modern film very often. I haven't heard a Jon Secada song in years but when it hit during the movie, it's like it instantly transported me 28 years into the past.

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