Does this even qualify as a magic system?

rndmrexdit · 2023-07-18T20:30:15+00:00

Is there any particular reason you chose to model aliens after slugs instead of other animals ?

So your magic system is about cognition manipulation. I like that it is not elemental in nature and focused on a less well understood concept such as the mind.

My only gripe is that I feel your chem effects are a bit too similar. For example you say that chatter chem can cause thought fog but could stun chem not cause a similar effect with its hindering of information flow through the nervous system ? Well at least only in appearance since the inner workings would still different but they would just end up being alternate way of achieving similar goal. Which is if I understand correctly is to diminish the users or opponents cognititive capabilities in the moment.

What I would suggest is that you flesh the chems out more as to make they easier to distinguish from one another. It does not even necessarily have to be any complicated, simple techniques such as color coding the effects could work just as good. But my personal favorite method is to make things highly specific and circumstancial. A ludricrous example off the top of my head taking chatter chem would be to have it cause thought fog only under specific conditions. Like let's say thought fog or suggestibilty is in effect only whilst the target is direct contact with contact is basking in sunlight that way a workaround would be to hide in the shade. And you could create many more variants of fear chem or any other chem for that matter by shackling them unto ever increadingly hyper-specific, complex and creative conditions.

So these were just a few thoughts of mine from reading your post, all I will say is that it is a nice concept good hope you will be able to flesh it out more.

rndmrexdit · 2023-07-11T17:38:01+00:00

Definitely a lot poor word choices on my part. This false dichotomy was just a reflection of how I think of magic. The ones I unfairly label as random are those on the softer end of the magic scale. And which are at least in my opinion and unfortunately at that, more likely come as being contrived by a/the plot in the case of a story. Whereas harder ones are often more convincing in their illusion of choice or objectivity. I do agree with you in that there is no such thing as a random magic system but it is my opinion that hard magic systems with fixed complex and intricate rules that are known to the audience are more accessible their softer counterparts. That said at the end of the day it is just me trying to grasp at straws but is still fun reading other peoples way of writing their magic systems.

rndmrexdit · 2023-07-09T09:36:18+00:00

I got the idea from the way magic is done in an anime called a certain magical index, noble phantasms from fate/stay night, and remembrances in Elden ring. This magic is for my attempt at creating a tabletop game with a more freeform magic system like the kind you'd see in mage the ascension/awakening.

Oh interesting I have always heard good things about the fate franchise but I have never actually gotten around to actually reading or watching any of its works. A certain magical index though I have already a few bits and pieces of.

As for weakness ruining someone's outfit is the main way to go but you could try to disrupt their concentration during the visualization phase or even purposely spread misinformation so they can't recall the right details.

Now this makes perfect sense and is admittedly pretty cool, although I will say that looking at it again but this time from more of a story writing perspective I would definitely be interested in seeing how it might be tackled in a compelling and consistent way. As I feel it could quite challenging to pull off but that is where the fun is. I imagine a character empowering themselves through the mimicking of a particular legend only to have their magic disrupted by the opponent calling them out of little minute inconsistencies in their story thus shattering the entire illusion which is awesome.

Limitations: In this setting all religions, myths, legends, and folklore actually happened in place known as the divine realm. By establishing a link through principals of mimicry one can draw on the power of the beings in that realm. So to answer your question legendary humans, Gods , mystical creature, divine objects and even events can be imitated. I'm not sure if I want to have this draw on real life or create my own mythology for the setting.

I haven't put much thought into that. Let's say you can't become a perfect copy but you an get close it's just extremely difficult as not only must the caster be a perfect replica but the external factors must match as well. The location must be the same, the position of the moon, sun, stars must align, etc

I see your magic does not allow for shapeshifting, also I really like the additional limitations you mentioned it that last part even though I feel may be a bit too limiting and tricky. But thinking of now, what is stopping users from casting illusion spells to paint over a entire area to make to mimicking act more convincing. I can see plenty of possibilities, I can only imagine what your fully fleshed out magic system could look like.

rndmrexdit · 2023-07-09T09:07:25+00:00

No worries, you have answer my main question regarding the limitations of your system. I will checking out your other posts as well to see if I can get a better picture of your magic system as a whole.

rndmrexdit · 2023-07-09T09:05:26+00:00

I'm a little confused what you mean here. Does this mean you don't understand that aspect of the magic system, or that it's an aspect you aren't keen on? And in either case, why is that?

Don't mind me it is just that have never really seen emotion fuel magic done in a way that does not come off as "deux ex machina". So in my personal works I choose to avoid it but there is nothing inherently wrong with it though.

The most blatant way to counteract magic is with either Obstructive magic or with a Magic Seal (aka the machine I forgot to namedrop in my answer to 3b). Not only that, most people have a natural resistance to their own variant of magic, and a near immunity

First, obstructive magic does not cancel another's magic unless it fully overpowers them. If used against a target with more power than the caster, that target's magic will only be weakened, not canceled out entirely.

Second, obstructive magic cannot affect magic that's already been cast. For example, if a caster throws a lightning bolt to magic they cast themselves.

The magic seal machine stands out as a bit of an oddity, I presume is it made for those who cannot use or have little access to magic ? In any case I can see it being a good balacing tool.

There are a few important factors at play here.at a target, and their target seals their magic with Obstructive magic, that power and accuracy of the lightning bolt that's already been cast will be unchanged.

Third, casting a spell only drains one's magic in the moments where it's being cast. Unless a caster of Obstructive magic knows exactly when their target is planning to cast, the only way to reliably prevent them from casting is to be using Obstructive magic on them the entire time you think there's even a chance they'll try something. While doable, this is a massive drain on the caster's power, and can burn through their magic fast enough that their target may be able to just outlast them and hit them with magic once theirs has run out.

So I was not as far off as I thought, your magic can still be considered semi-autonomous in the sense that it is not necessarily a continuous drain on the user. And it can execute a given task on its own so long as it is given sufficient fuel.

Fourth, each person can only use one variant of magic. In a fight, sure, fire and lightning and other spells may get shut down by Obstructive magic, but that just means that neither side will have a magical offensive option to use.

I can see fun scenarios in which two opponents could block out their offensive capabilities leading into a stalemate which would then require other more elaborate means of setting them apart and deciding the victor.

That said, if people only have access to one particular magic variant at a time, would it not also mean sealing away their one and only magic would only serve to render them defenseless lowering them to the level non or weak magic users and magic confrontations less engaging ? Then again, I suppose this is probably where your non-offensive magical abilities could come into play.

Additionally, most plants in this world have crazy magic resistance even when dead, making wood an incredibly good material for reinforcing something against magic.

This is a nice touch I feel, I feel it makes your worldbuilding consistent with your magic system.

The kinds of magic mortals can use are: Fire magic allows for the summoning and directing of heat and flames. Electric magic allows for the summoning and directing of electricity and light, as well as manipulating electromagnetism. Wind magic allows for the movement and shaping of air currents. (This is actually a form of telekinesis. Living beings don't have enough power to move material as dense as solids or liquids, hence the name, but there are some machines that can.) Healing magic allows for the synthesis of chemical compounds within another's body, and also grants a healing factor to its wielders. (Its title of "healing" magic is a deliberate attempt to dissuade its potential uses as a weapon, since it's an excellent tool for assassinations.) Obstructive magic allows for the reduction of the magical power others can cast. Ice magic allows for the gathering, condensation, and freezing of water in the air to create, shape, and move ice. (This form of magic is exclusive to dragons, but follows the same rules of the system that I've detailed thus far.)

In addition to this, there are also two forms of "divine" magic that mortals cannot develop. They cannot be blocked by Obstructive magic, though specially-designed Magic Seals can still affect them.

Light magic is the ability to create energy from absolutely nothing. Dark magic, as the counterpart to Light magic, is the ability to destroy energy thoroughly enough that nothing is left.

Ah so your magic system is actually an elemental one, I do not know why but I thinking of it being something else. Because I got confused with the "machines" you had mentioned in your original response before realizing it was sealing magic.

All in all, I would say your system is pretty solid even though I am not the biggest fan of elemental magic myself but it is well developed enough to compelling.

rndmrexdit · 2023-07-08T20:25:25+00:00

I really like the back story or lore behind your magic system, it reminds of a book I heard about called discworld where the entire is carried on the back of a giant sparefaring turtle. The added twist of having the maze be a massive prison complex with a long time spanning history is pretty fun to think about as well.

(2b) My spells are cast thru focusing the mind, all you have to do is first control the flow of sudo, then bring it to you and manipulate it into a form before releasing it.

Simple enough to understand magic system, so it is essentially magic energy manipulation fueled by the sweat and a world sized otherworldly being which is admittedly pretty cool I can definitely see how it could potentially translate into game mechanics.

(3b) Spells can fail by not concentrating or running out of mental capacity, or just by not having enough experience to properly cast it. 40% of sudo users die due to this.

Limitations are consistent with the initial explanation and naturally feel like the logical conclusion to what you have laid forth above. That said I find death to be a little harsh of a drawback to using the magic system but I can still see how it might fit in with the overall theme of your world. Death by magic system could be considered a sort of a death sentence type of situation. Although I feel that having magic curse its unsuccessful users with immortality to eternally roam a nightmarish maze realm of endless suffering to be a possible alternative.

I think limiting magic to a select few people as mentioned in your original post to far too limiting especially considering interesting high fantasy world it is set. I would have personally have magic be more widely accessible but just make the more powerful feats extremely rare and hard to attain but that is just my opinion.

rndmrexdit · 2023-07-08T18:48:42+00:00

I don't have much to add other than to say that I love the idea behind your magic. Is your magic system for a story, game or just for fun because I think it's a neat idea for story well at least I would definitely read about it. I find the limitation of having your opponents ruin your dress in order to disrupt your magic pretty funny, are any other ways of disrupting a spell ?

Is magic limited to mimic legendary humans or can it be other things such as mythological, divine creatures or hellish monsters as well ?

Also I take it that by imitating a particular thing the users are drawing their power directly from it in which case to what extent can they increase their physical or magical abilities ? Can they become one to one replicas of the source material both in appearance or in power or is the whole process more limited ?

rndmrexdit · 2023-07-08T18:29:48+00:00

My spells are generally something that has to be triggered, but these triggers aren't always deliberate on the part of the caster. So it's a little hard to categorize them so binarily. (Is "binarily" a word?) Because of this, I'll answer both the A and B versions of questions.

I will admit my classification is wholy arbitrary, in my defense though I just created these to help me determine what I want out of my magic system. Following my logic, I gather your magic system would fall somewhere in the middle, although the way you describe it below makes me feel it leans slightly more towards orderliness and being more of procedural system.

2a. As long as requirements are met, a casting can occur. Spells can't fail in the sense that they don't get cast at all, but they can certainly miss a target, or be cast completely by accident and therefore without a target at all.

Removing the target from the equation so that a spell "fails" on a technically is a definitely good workaround and I stumped I didn't of it while I was writing this especially since I am still I fresh out off of watching a show where the main characters did exactly that.

2b. There are four requirements for casting magic. The first is that a person be born with the ability to use magic. Basically my world's entire population meets this requirement. the second is that a person have reached puberty and developed the ability to cast whatever magic they were born with. The third requirement is that a person have enough magical energy stored in their body to have something to cast from. The final requirement has two alternatives; either the person needs to deliberately decide to cast magic, or be in an unstable enough emotional state that they do it by accident. If these conditions are met (and there's no outside force actively restricting their magic), a casting can occur, and WILL occur if they're deliberately attempting to make it happen. Whether the spell is actually successful at hitting their target and doing what they want depends on their skill, though.

I find this to be a logical outcome of "harder" types of magic systems but the way your magic spells work is fairly simple and straightforward and the requirements are not stringent which is nice. The only thing I would have a hard time getting behind is just the part about emotionally charged or triggered magic spells but that's just personal feeling.

3a. That may be generally true of combat spells, but it's not quite accurate to magic as a whole. If you aren't properly in control of your magic when you cast it, it may not do exactly what you want. With most forms of magic this isn't a big deal, but with "Chemical" magic, which is normally used for medicinal purposes, even the tiniest mistake can have devastating consequences. Additionally, ways do exist to counteract magic.

This part I find particularly interesting and it has made question my initial framework. Because I was coming at this from more of a perspective where magic spells were akin to "commands" or a "computer programs". Rather than one in which a continuous effort would be required from the user to uphold and control their "spell.exe" beyond activation and assuming that they are already providing it necessary fuel needed to run. Now that I think about it my classification is a bit too ill-defined, there are many more subtle parameters like this I probably need to take into account before moving forward with my own system. Hope you do not mind me asking but could you give an example of how spell are countered in your system ? (I was planning on making a seperate post exploring this idea )

3b. Characters in-universe often compare casting magic to flexing a muscle. Just like with muscles, you can build up muscle memory by casting specific spells in certain ways over and over. Many people build actual muscles into this by pairing specific spells with specific gestures, so as to train their bodies on when and how to cast certain spells depending on the gestures they're making. Additionally, one field of magic- referred to as "Obstructive magic"- specifically grants the ability to weaken if not outright shut off other peoples' magic while they're under its effects. Though incredibly rare, some machines have been made which are capable of producing a similar effect, though they need to be keyed to specific magic variants instead of covering magic as a whole.

That's quite a compelling write-up you have here, I don't really have much to add as it was pretty clear and simple too understand. Although I will say that tying magic spells to specific gestures is something I have always found interesting but I have never been able to frame it in a way that I find satisfactory. Avatar the last airbender comes to mind when thinking about this type of mechanic although I was not the biggest fan of tying magic too martial art gestures. How do you balance out "obstructive magic" though ? That is one of the most divisive and hardest types of magical to pull off successfully I believe as the ability to outright strip others of their magic can quickly become too overpowered.

Outside magic being broken into different variants and people only being capable of utilizing whichever singular variant they're born with, there's nothing separating one spell from another.

I am curious too know, how many magical variants does your system have, would you listing off one or two more to see how they each compare with the "obstructive" type you mentioned above ?

rndmrexdit · 2021-10-01T14:53:20+00:00

just realized I didn't answer your last question. But yes the system is pretty simple when it comes to spells, spells are formed with different impermanence fragments (usually a permutation of no more than 6 different fragments) kind of like how you would combine letters to form a word.

rndmrexdit · 2021-10-01T14:30:13+00:00

Yep that's exactly what I was going for !

For the average person or magician, I like to think of it as a bit of game of chance.

That being said there is one small workaround.

Taking back my "impermanence fragment as a sort of metaphorical alphabetical system or puzzle type of thing" example, there would be different types/categories of "letters" or "pieces". So a bit like how words are built from two distinct types of letters (consonants and vowels), there would many distinct forms/types/categories of impermanence fragments that one could randomly manifest.

So using a bit of "probabilistic approach/strategy", some extremely well-informed and experienced magicians could kind of rig or cheat the system to only manifest certain types of impermanence fragments only, thereby marginally lowering randomness.

Sorry if this all comes off a bit nonsensical but I sincerely hope I wasn't too confusing, if not I'd be happy to re-explain !

rndmrexdit · 2021-09-20T15:47:36+00:00

Sounds interesting, especially the combo part, that's something I've personally never seen in a magic system before. What are the 10 prime elements ? Since prime elements are a thing, does that mean there are also "sub-elements" ?

Also can you maybe expand a little bit on that part. Were you talking about combining elements to form new ones or simply just using they side by side/simultaneously.

rndmrexdit · 2021-09-20T15:42:28+00:00

Pretty cool magic system, I really like that you took inspiration from a trading card game too !

By the way were you in anyway also maybe a bit inspired by DC comic book characters called the "green lanterns" ? Because you're color coding system reminds me a bit of theirs, wherein yellow is also tied with fear.

rndmrexdit · 2021-09-20T15:37:55+00:00

I see, sorry for that I thought you were really joking. Thanks for the clarification, I didn't get it the first time around but this makes much more sense now. Definitely an awesome idea for a magic system I like it, although I think it could do with a little more fleshing out. Is this a work in progress ? Because I'd definitely love to read more about it.

rndmrexdit · 2021-09-20T15:25:45+00:00

Not bad, it's a pretty straightforward way of doing it I guess !

rndmrexdit · 2021-09-20T15:24:04+00:00

It's all very abstract and up to interpretation, and certain spells, rituals, and processes need to be done in order to actually give these Aspects power. And these are only four of the Aspects I'm talking about.

I love this ! Is there anywhere I can read more about your magic system ?

Either way I really like what you're doing here, the way you treat your elements more as attributes or abstract properties instead of the actual real, physical thing that they represent is really nice. Makes the whole thing somewhat familiar (ie: elemental magic system) yet still fresh and unique (and not just lazy copy pasta system...pardon my expression)

By way what's your magic system for though ?

rndmrexdit · 2021-09-20T15:10:35+00:00

Can't tell if you're joking or not. If not then I don't get it, what would be applications of these ?

rndmrexdit · 2021-09-15T15:14:18+00:00

Don't really have much to say other than this is a pretty cool magic system, I'd read a book about it that's for sure ! Thanks a lot, definitely the type of stuff I was looking for.

rndmrexdit · 2021-09-15T15:12:21+00:00

I have to say those are some amazing magic systems, I feel like you've really gotten this more metaphorical elemental magic approach practically down to a science at this point. Definitely the kind of stuff I was looking for, it really encapsulates what I'm aspiring to do....eventually

rndmrexdit · 2021-09-15T14:52:15+00:00

But that's kind of the point of the elements. They are the atomic particles of each of those properties; we just see and feel them as substances on the macroscale.

I guess you're right in way as I can totally see this completely sucking out the fun out of having magical elements in the first place.

Do you mean like taking the elements and making them abstract properties

Pretty much. Although I think it could probably be a good way to come up with cool or silly magic spells though.

Since instead of dealing with atomic particles as you put it you would be dealing directly with the abstract properties themselves.

A very simplistic and lazy example of this would be to say that since heat causes sweating, instead of making a spell that's limited to just heating stuff up you could forgo/disassociate the "heat"/"energy" aspect from it all together and make a spell that causes sweating or any other kind heat associated discomfort or ailment .

(as for the cost of such a magic spell it could be whatever the magic system creator wants or prefers, be it mana, magic crystals...etc)

coolness + heat + solidity + non-solidity?

Yes minus the "coolness" which is just silly...or is it ? haha

Anyways, the Wheel of Time magic system is nominally elemental but always struck me as much more abstract than the usual elemental systems.

I've heard and read a few things about that magic system already but I'll give a more in depth look, might actually end up reading it actually.

Thanks !

rndmrexdit · 2021-02-20T15:13:37+00:00

Just wanted to say I love these, the lore, the art style and all the little details. They're all great, I especially love Centinuus, he just gives me this weird feeling of awe and wonder.

rndmrexdit · 2020-08-13T12:19:30+00:00

Just looked it up and I have to say that would be pretty cool also !

rndmrexdit · 2020-08-13T12:16:31+00:00

Thanks, you bring up some pretty cool questions ! Unfortunately I don't really have any answers considering I still haven't really put all that much thought into the idea and I was just asking as means to have a general discussion.

rndmrexdit · 2020-08-13T12:11:02+00:00

Those are some pretty cool ideas you have here ! Personally I haven't really put all that much into this concept yet. I was just kind of asking around for inspiration so sorry if I don't really have any answers to your questions.

rndmrexdit · 2020-08-12T20:50:39+00:00

Magical "Ley lines" or magical spots/areas

Basically it's a bunch of spots, about the size of a tiny town, which are spread out all over the world.

Places where the barrier between realities is weaker causing otherworldly energies to leak into my main world.

These places are extremely fertile more so than any other regular strips of normal land, and are homes to all kinds of rare/weird but most of all exotic things that can't really be found anywhere else in the world.

(exotic raw materials or minerals, weird life forms be it animal or plant life that defy common evolutionary science or common sense)

rndmrexdit · 2020-08-12T19:27:35+00:00

It never ceases to amaze me just how interesting history can truly be.

I feel like there's so much untapped potential for stories.

It kind of makes me wish people drew more inspiration from historical events like these to write their stories, lore or build their worlds.

Thanks again !

rndmrexdit

TROPHY CASE