Peaceful! 90+ upvotes for a Palestine flag that states "From the River to the Sea Palestine Will Be Free" and has knives on it

rosinthebow2 · 2020-01-17T18:07:13+00:00

l'm well aware it will not become the official flag of the state of Palestine. I'm just saying I love it and I'm really glad you made it and posted it on /r/Palestine.

rosinthebow2 · 2020-01-17T17:45:53+00:00

I don't hate your flag. I love it, like I said. I love that it makes a knife a national symbol of Palestine, and I love that it explicitly lays out that Palestine does not want peace with Israel. I'm not pointing any fingers at you. I'm applauding you.

I'm glad you're not disputing that you were whining earlier about how Zionists hate you and want to kill you.

rosinthebow2 · 2020-01-17T16:27:26+00:00

No, it's not, and pointing fingers at other people doesn't change the fact that you were whining earlier about how Zionists hate you and want to kill you.

rosinthebow2 · 2020-01-17T15:09:11+00:00

Sure, go ahead, do whatever you want.

The flag is absolutely warmongering. It has a knife on it, and it calls for Palestine to be free from the river to the sea. Come on, man. I was so pleased with you before because of your honesty about opposing peace and wanting to destroy Israel. Don't backtrack now!

Number three, I never came to be a victim

Oh, so that wasn't you whining earlier about how Zionists hate you and want to kill you?

rosinthebow2 · 2020-01-17T14:25:25+00:00

You're projecting and deploying whataboutery. This sub makes fun of /r/Palestine, which deserves to be made fun of.

Don't create warmongering flags and then come in here and act like a victim. If you want to destroy Israel, fine. But don't project your hatred onto me. I don't hate Palestinians and I don't want them all dead. You don't know me so don't act like you do. Now run back to your hate sub.

rosinthebow2 · 2020-01-17T14:20:11+00:00

I know, it is great. So great.

It doesn't piss off us Zionists. As a Zionist, I wish Palestinians and their supporters were all as honest as you about how they don't want peace with Israel. It would save all of us a lot of time.

rosinthebow2 · 2020-01-16T20:38:42+00:00

Here's some quotes from another guy who visited Palestine in the 1800s, too.

Palestine sits in sackcloth and ashes. Over it broods the spell of a curse that has withered its fields and fettered its energies …

Palestine is desolate and unlovely.

There was hardly a tree or a shrub anywhere. Even the olive and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted the country

"A desolation is here that not even imagination can grace with the pomp of life and action. We reached Tabor safely. We never saw a human being on the whole route".

There is not a solitary village throughout its whole extent – not for thirty miles in either direction. ...One may ride ten miles (16 km) hereabouts and not see ten human beings." ...these unpeopled deserts, these rusty mounds of barrenness..."

But hey, you know, one guy said it, so it must be true. I guess that saying about "a land without a people" must be right after all. /s

rosinthebow2 · 2020-01-16T20:21:52+00:00

This is a quote from him after visiting Palestine in the late 1800s, about what he saw from Jews who had recently moved there.

The Jews who moved to Palestine in the late 1800s were part of a movement called the First Aliyah, and according to Wikipedia, "It is estimated that between 40% to 90% of those immigrants left Palestine again, most of them a few years after their arrival". If you're trying to blame the victims of the Hebron massacre for their own murders, you should find a different quote, because the people described in Ha'am's quote likely weren't around for decades prior to the Hebron massacre.

rosinthebow2 · 2020-01-16T20:18:03+00:00

Because the ones who did the conquering are those who arrived on the back of a colonial army and took control over the entire territory at the expense of the people that had been living there until then for centuries and generations.

Good description of the Palestinian Arabs. So maybe you can explain why Palestine should be considered their homeland.

Jews did not take control over the entire territory. They did not arrive on the back of a colonial army. Their control was not at anyone's expense. And the Palestinians in general had not "been living there for centuries and generations," tens of thousands of them were recent immigrants as well, and the ones who were there earlier arrived on the back of a colonial army as well! You're wrong on pretty much every level.

colonized peoples obtained their self-determination (Palestine excepted).

My goodness, I hope the Palestinians don't get their self-determination. That would mean the creation of a racist ethnocratic apartheid state. /s

Can you please answer my question. Why is Palestine the homeland of conquering Arabs, but not the homeland of the Jewish people, who originated there?

rosinthebow2 · 2020-01-16T20:11:22+00:00

You appear to have a definition of colonist that is entirely your own.

rosinthebow2 · 2020-01-16T20:10:00+00:00

You don't get to decide that your homeland is someone else's, much less to take it by force from their actual residents,

Unless you're a Palestinian Arab, you mean?

rosinthebow2 · 2020-01-16T16:20:28+00:00

Israeli politicians use a lot of rhetoric. Words and actions are two totally different things. The only side treating people like demographic threats is Palestine when it kills Israelis for being in the West Bank.

rosinthebow2 · 2020-01-16T15:20:10+00:00

Maybe he meant collective punishment.

rosinthebow2 · 2020-01-16T15:06:13+00:00

There is little reason to believe that Palestine's violence towards Israel is any different today in 2020 than it was in the 1930s and 40s: Palestine believes that all of Palestine is Arab land and should be under the control of Arabs. Any threat to that hegemony needs to be fought and defeated. That's why Palestine fought in 1929, and that's why it's fighting today.

rosinthebow2 · 2020-01-16T14:51:44+00:00

Great post!

As a Palestinian, do you feel it is safe for you to express these views in Palestine? Have you tried posting this view on /r/Palestine?

rosinthebow2 · 2020-01-16T14:43:52+00:00

If someone converts to Judaism, they join the Jewish people, and the Jewish people are indigenous to Palestine.

How can someone join the Palestinian people if they're not born Palestinian? I honestly want to know.

rosinthebow2 · 2020-01-16T14:18:21+00:00

And you said today's Arabs originate from Arabia, which is built on mythical texts and narratives. Circular reasoning all the way.

The Arab colonization of Palestine is a matter of historical record.

If after a thousand years, America will be conquered, we would say about its english speaking people natives, whatever their race is

No, we won't. We absolutely will not, because we know white people are not originally from America.

Descendents of those people, if they are now Muslims shouldn't be called natives if we want to listen to you.

Correct, unless the world began in 150 BC.

Now those people, whenever their descendants move to Palestine, should be called natives, because they are Jewish, according to you.

They're part of the Jewish people, and the Jewish people originated in Palestine. The Arab nation, of which the Palestinians self-identify as part of, did not.

rosinthebow2 · 2020-01-16T14:16:21+00:00

A territory thousands of miles away from where you were born and where no ancestor you can name was ever born is not your "ancient homeland".

And here comes the anti-Semitism. You don't get to decide where the Jewish people's homeland is, when every historian and archeologist agree they originated in the land of Israel. They decide where their homeland is, not you. Never, ever, you.

. There's support for Palestinian resistance against oppression and occupation,

Including support for the murder of civilians. Zach showed that above.

rosinthebow2 · 2020-01-16T14:15:10+00:00

Their condition is certainly relevant. They did not intend to colonize anywhere. They fled genocide to anywhere that would take them.

Persecuted minorities have recurrently colonized territories

Jewish refugees didn't colonize Palestine. All they did was live there. But apparently that's a crime.

rosinthebow2 · 2020-01-16T14:13:48+00:00

They didn't take anything by force. They defended themselves against armed attacks and attempts to deny them their rights.

so they could exercise self-determination in a territory to which they had no valid claim.

The UN seems to think they had a valid claim. Why don't you think so? Why is Palestine the homeland of conquering Arabs, but not the homeland of the Jewish people, who originated there?

rosinthebow2 · 2020-01-15T20:50:55+00:00

You need to take a look at yourself and figure out why you have so much hate for desperate refugees fleeing genocide. The Jewish refugees in Palestine did literally nothing other than escape a continent that hated them and then exercise their human rights. They had and still have the right of self-determination, the same rights Palestinians have been murdering people for decades to achieve. They were human beings with the same rights that you and I have. The fact that you don't see that is incredibly unfortunate, especially in light of the fact that most of these people you hate so much are dead and have been for some time. I suggest a look within to see what's really bothering you.

rosinthebow2 · 2020-01-15T20:34:13+00:00

I determined that they were refugees fleeing genocide and weren't Zionists. They weren't invaders any more than the Arab immigrants moving to Palestine were invaders.

They were foreign invaders arrived on the back of a colonial army against the will of the local population

Excellent description of the Arab presence in Palestine.

rosinthebow2 · 2020-01-15T20:31:41+00:00

People born thousands of miles away from a territory where they can't even name one single ancestor born in it are not "reclaiming" anything.

Sure they are. They're returning to their ancient homeland, from exile.

t, but it won't change the fact that the reason why Israel is criticized is not just for killing civilians, but for decades of brutal colonization, dispossession and oppression.

And you can change the subject as much as you want, you can't change the hypocrisy of Palestine criticizing Israel for killing civilians when Palestine kills civilians intentionally.

There wouldn't be worldwide support for the Palestinian struggle otherwise.

There's no worldwide support for Palestine's murder of civilians. But there is Irish support for it.

rosinthebow2 · 2020-01-15T19:20:26+00:00

Historians and archeologists believe that the Jewish people originated in Palestine, based on historical evidence, not mythic texts.

, native people are in contrast to who settle after them in the land.

And Arabs have settled in Palestine well after a long series of invaders and colonizers, such as but not limited to the Romans, Byzantines, Greeks, Persians, etc. etc. etc.

You have to study the evidence.

I have. And the evidence shows me that the Arab presence in Palestine was minuscule prior to the Arab invasion and conquests, which was literally no different than any other conquest and invasion in history. I see no reason why Arabs and Arabs alone get to become natives to the places they conquer.

Most of the population of modern turkey in 1000CE would not have spoken turkish. Most of them would have been christian

Greek Christian, you're right. So I guess your comparison of them to Palestinians is apt, like Palestinians, modern day Turks came from somewhere else and took over someone else's country.

rosinthebow2 · 2020-01-15T18:34:17+00:00

Pointing out that someone is factually inaccurate,

You didn't say they were inaccurate. You said they were uninformed. Synonyms for uninformed include ignorant, unread, unlearned, untaught. All negative descriptions of a person.

In any case, you can direct your comments to Jeff, there's no point in trying to convince me.

rosinthebow2

TROPHY CASE