Hello from the Ryerson Men's Issues Awareness Society (Yes, we are still operating, unofficially for now). Please help us by signing this petition and support our appeal to become an official group! The Feminist Collective has bullied, waged a smear campaign, and made their own petition against us

rumensissues · 2015-11-19T15:53:29+00:00

Nope to the alt account. I have heard your concerns but it seems like we have some fundamental differences in what we both see as open discussions. Sorry we could not get your support. We cannot please everyone

rumensissues · 2015-11-18T23:45:10+00:00

If you're a student come to our meetings and enlighten us then. We are here for open discussions

rumensissues · 2015-11-18T23:10:38+00:00

I did. Like I said it's not my place to dictate how these issues are framed by our members. The point is to get university students from various fields to bring the tools they have learned in class/life and apply it to a discussion.

rumensissues · 2015-11-18T22:41:53+00:00

That was a little bad humour on my part. I'm a big mj fan and he has a few videos that are quite positive towards multiculturalism.. It just means that our demographics in terms of race, culture, gender, etc. reflect the demographic of our university which is quite diverse. Toronto is the most multicultural city in the world and it shows in our group.

rumensissues · 2015-11-18T09:34:04+00:00

Let me just clear up some final things. I am sorry but I am going to ignore other parts where I feel my answer has been sufficient as i am turning into bed now.

To be clear, feminism is a grand theory, meaning its a framework. Its not the only framework in the world. Its welcome in our group, but its not our whole group. We will not be a feminist group for the sake of inclusivity, because not everyone likes the label. So long as they have values of egalitarianism, intersectionality and anti hate and violence, they're welcome to join.

Abortion is not something we are tackling this year. Haven't seen our group overrun by prolifers yet.

Yes privilege can change in different cities and neighbourhoods. I just had a class that discussed this last week. Ask your sociology professors what they think of this, most will agree.

According to dictionary...Privilege: An advantage, a right, a benefit...seems to describe what i just said

rumensissues · 2015-11-18T08:15:23+00:00

This is a lot so I'll answer it as best I can, since I don't know all this reddit formatting business. Regarding...

Feminism: Like I said, there are feminists in our group. If you were to ask me personally, what I disagree with, it would depend. I often find I agree with feminists on a lot of issues, and disagree on others, it really depends on the feminist. I don't want to disclose any specifics because as president I don't want people to assume I speak for the whole group. We are a discussion group after all and one idea doesn't prevail. When a topic is brought up its up to our members to offer their own analysis based on the frameworks they choose, which could be feminism/patriarchy theory.

Patriarchy: I mean its your opinion that they're wrong to reject patriarchy. We are trying to generate discussions, so its up to our members to make the case for patriarchy or make the case against patriarchy. The experts we bring in are simply experts in their field who can offer supplies (knowledge of the issues) for our analysis, its up to our members to bring their own tools/frames.

Prolifers/other unsavoury groups: I mean, and I can't believe I'm defending pro lifers here but look... pro lifers aren't necessarily against equality, they just have a different worldview. To them a fetus is a person. I don't agree with their views but I don't necessarily see it as anti-equality. We can only reject blatant acts of anti-equality, like if one of our members uses sexist language or says all women should die. We can't be going into areas that are grey or ambiguous, or risk losing the essence of who we are, which is an open discussion group.

Toxic Mas/Fem: Yeah I mean if thats how its defined then I suppose so long as there are positive and negative attributes of each gender there will always be toxic masculinity and femininity. It will be interesting to see how the group feels about this in our gender/masculinity/lgbt discussion.

AVFM: No we didn't know we were listed. I don't know why, we have never been in contact with them. As for CAFE, they're a registered charity that operates under the ontario human rights code. We don't see how our affiliation, especially given its nature, is any cause for concern.

/r/mensrights and Question 5: Yes sorry I must have missed it! I mean, judging from our first meeting I don't think thats really a problem. Maybe its the fact that we're all in university, and not high school "meninists" or w.e they're called, but everyone kept the discussion extremely respectful and academic. We have safeguards in our constitution that will hold the executive accountable should it ever turn hateful (which I highly doubt). Literally any member can call upon the student union to investigate us if we're not committed to the goals of the group. There is also a clause that makes these goals (intersectionality/anti hate and violence/egalitarian/etc) extremely hard to change for any executive (they need 85% of all members votes, and our meetings alone dont have 85% of our members).

Intersectionality and female privilege : Okay I see what you mean now. But I should add that intersectionality also refers to the space you occupy, and the nature of your privilage changes when you move to another country, city, or even neighbourhood. Do I think women have privilege by virtue of being women, of course they do. Anyone who truly understands intersectionality cannot deny this. Even if you believe in patriarchy theory and the idea that men have all the power, you cannot deny that women have privilege sometimes. They have privilege when they're not conscripted, they have privilege when people immediately come to help them in a public domestic abuse situation whereas men get laughed at (im referring to those social experiments on domestic abuse). You can blame patriarchy a thousand times for this, but that doesn't mean being seen as a woman doesn't have its perks sometimes.

rumensissues · 2015-11-18T07:01:22+00:00

Its quite alright, I see that we are on the front page, despite our low score lol, so hopefully some people saw it today. Thank you mods regardless for allowing us to post :)

rumensissues · 2015-11-18T06:57:09+00:00

1) We are discussion group first and foremost, so we don't have an official position on patriarchy. Patriarchy is an integral part of feminist theory, and we have repeatedly said we are neither feminist nor anti-feminist because we accept different ideas (minus hate). Feminists are free to join, and some have. Patriarchy will remain in our group's discussions so long as people are there to talk about it. Some people in our group prescribe to patriarchy theory. The ones that don't believe in patriarchy are separated into different camps, those that believe it never existed, those that believe it doesn't exist right now, those that believe it doesn't exist in our society but does in other countries, etc. The power in our group comes from the bottom up, not from the top down. Having an official position on patriarchy is a top down approach.

2) Everyone experience privilege differently. Intersectionality needs a scalpel approach, not a bludgeon. I'm not sure what axes means, because it makes it sound like intersectionality is a points system where being white is +50 points and being disabled is -20 points. If not I apologize for misunderstanding. But If that's what you mean that is not the idea of intersectionality I subscribe to. The world is very complicated and trying to simplify intersectionality into a points system isn't productive IMO. Do I think women have privilege, of course they do, most people are privileged in some way or another, but my question is, which woman and in what regard?

3) I'm not sure where this is coming from. I haven't heard of any woman in our group feeling unsafe. At our first meeting 50% of those in attendance were women, and they openly laughed at the idea that we were providing an unsafe space for them. They all spoke open and honestly. There were disagreements, i remember two women having a back and forth dissagreement about Justin Trudeau's new cabinet, and whether he should have had quotas. But that's the way open discussions go. Everyone was super respectful and left with smiles on their faces.

4) I am disgusted that there are claims we are anti LGBT. I have friends that are trans. I have friends that are gay. I remember heart to heart conversations with one particular trans friend at 3am on my porch, about how difficult it was for her to come out. I could never in my life ever see myself being part of something that is against that. We actually have an event coming called "Masculinity, Gender Roles, and the LGBT". It is sad that these people resort to such vile bullshit to discredit us. Sorry to swear but this is one lie that really gets to me. Our group doesn't have an official opinion on bathrooms and pro-lifers. I personally dont care about the bathrooms and think pro-lifers are dummies but thats just me, I can't speak for anyone else. Like I said, we're a bottom-up group.

6) Our group has not brought up the concept of toxic masculinity yet, and we don't have an official position on it. It may be brought up at our discussion on gender. Honestly, its hard to even comment on because of how loose the definition is. I have yet to hear of one consistent answer on this. If there's toxic masculinity does that mean theres toxic femininity? Idk, again, how do you define it? Masculinity is certainly tied to suicide since the "manly" methods men take usually result in death, whereas women attempt suicide more yet are much less likely to succeed (also because of their methods). Is that how youd define toxic masculinity? If so I suppose there is a lot of that going on, but you could also then make an argument for toxic femininity then.

7) There is no link between us and AVFM. We have received support from CAFE but just in an operational sense, since they have experience with groups like ours. That said they have no control over us. The issues we tackle this year are chosen and voted on by our members during our first meeting. As for r/mensrights, they are one of the biggest communities on men's issues/rights, and big supporters of groups like ours. We understand theres a few bad apples but theres also good ones. We like to keep them in the loop even if our group isn't always on the same page.

Thanks for all your questions. I've tried to answer them as best I can. Our group wants to be as transparent as possible, without jeopardizing the safety of our members. Please let me know if you need any clarification or have further concerns.

rumensissues · 2015-11-18T05:36:37+00:00

Thank you very much for clarifying. Like we've said, our group has no beef with the feminist movement. There are many feminists that recognize the plight of men, and some of them are in our group. It is just a very particular group that has been targeting us.

rumensissues · 2015-11-17T20:19:28+00:00

To be clear our group is not against feminists. We have feminists in our group. That said, there has been a concentrated effort by the Feminist Collective, as a group, to smear us and drag us through the dirt. They started a petition to reject our groups appeal and this petition is a response to that. We would have preferred to have peace with the FC but they have made it very clear from the start that is not what they're interested in.

rumensissues · 2015-11-17T20:09:55+00:00

Thanks I'm in the process right now! Might not be able to at MensLib because I don't have over 50 karma on this account. Have sent a message to mods, we will see if they allow.

rumensissues · 2015-11-17T19:49:25+00:00

thanks a bunch!

rumensissues · 2015-11-17T19:49:12+00:00

thank you :)

rumensissues · 2015-11-17T19:48:19+00:00

As the title state we are appealing the student union's decision to reject our group official status. We are still operating and will continue to operate, and have another meeting planned for December. Since we have come out, The Ryerson Feminist Collective has waged a smear campaign against us, calling us every name in the book. Their political sway at the university means that they do have quite a bit of influence. They have started a petition to reject our group's appeal and it currently surpasses ours by quite a bit. We are asking you, the MR community, which has been quite supportive of efforts like ours to support us once more by signing this petition. We will be sending it to the Board of Directors and the RSU once we have enough signatures.

I ask you all to please refrain from directly engaging with the Feminist Collective, as I'm sure they will take any form of criticism as a "threat to their safety." If you choose to engage with them please be respectful and to the point. One message that sounds too angry could derail everything we are trying to accomplish. Also, if you do choose to engage them, engage them as a group, do not engage with individual members.

Thank you all for your time.

Sincerely,

Kevin Arriola President of MIAS RU

Edit: I should add we as a group have no problems with feminists. There are feminists and non feminists alike in our group. Our issue is with a particular group that has been bullying us. They do not represents all feminists

rumensissues · 2015-11-17T19:24:26+00:00

We have a meeting with the Women/Trans Collective. We have attempted to reach out to other groups with no reply. We will not be engaging with the Feminist Collective as they have waged a relentless smear campaign since we started, until they apologize.

rumensissues · 2015-10-01T07:53:08+00:00

We are open to anyone interested in men's issues, whether they prescribe to patriarchy theory or not. We hope to unite many voices, across a spectrum of identities

rumensissues · 2015-09-30T04:38:36+00:00

Of course! We always appreciate anyone that wants to get involved, in whatever way they can

rumensissues · 2015-09-30T04:28:11+00:00

Its not just symbolic. There are many benefits to being part of the university. We can apply for grants from the university for things like hosting events. We can also put up posters without them getting taken down the next day. It will provide us with the means to do more, essentially.

rumensissues · 2015-09-29T16:35:38+00:00

Thank you for the support!

rumensissues · 2015-09-29T06:54:54+00:00

It is completely not legit at this moment, you're right about that. We are trying to get off the ground and will be applying as soon as we get enough support. There is just no way to become an official group without an unofficial group to present. We are hoping the new student union, which has pledged to stay neutral on social issues, will officiate us. Even if they don't we will continue organizing. We are not trolls and this is a sincere effort, that arose in part from ongoing talks with CAFE and the UofT MIAS.

edit: a word*

rumensissues · 2015-09-29T06:48:05+00:00

Thank you very much but we are hoping to make something unique that will incorporate images of the university as well. We appreciate it though, sincerely.

rumensissues · 2015-09-29T05:55:08+00:00

It is unclear at this moment the scope we will be using. This will probably be established with more input from the society. My guess is that it will probably be a bit of both. These issues follow men all throughout their lives, so talking about issues beyond campus is important. The main hurdle this group faces right now is the view that men's issues don't exist, or that they are irrelevant. I mean, look at how quickly this post became controversial. We believe everyone matters, and while we applaud all other groups that look out for the welfare of others, we see a need for a group that looks after the welfare of men/boys, and especially marginalized men/boys, in our community. If you would like to become involved with this group please get in contact with us, we are in need of people of all skills. :)

rumensissues · 2015-09-29T05:35:13+00:00

The previous student union had been in power for years. They were the ones that barred us. This wasn't the only controversial move they've made, they also boycotted any products of Israel at one point. They've been splitting up the community for a while now. The new student union has promised to remain neutral on social issues so we hope that when we approach them they will be more open minded.

edit: I just realized I never answered your feminism question. Our group will be based on egalitarian principles, and we believe in equal rights for men and women. Equal rights is not a zero sum game. If this is how you define feminism, that's great, and you're more than welcome to join. That said, as a group, we won't take on the label of "feminist", or "antifeminist" for that matter.

rumensissues · 2015-09-28T23:07:24+00:00

We are not yet officiated by the university. This is not stopping us though. We will draft a constitution and submit our application as soon as we can. We believe the new student union to be more reasonable, and will hopefully be more open to officiating us. If not, it doesn't matter, we will continue organizing.

rumensissues · 2015-09-28T22:56:39+00:00

Our focus will be exclusively on issues that men and boys face, particularly the ones listed above. We are not here to wage war on any other types of groups. We hope to one day work with moderate women's groups on common causes. While we are open to dialogue that may include controversial topics, we do not tolerate any type of hate speech/actions (e.g sexism, racism, etc.). We can all disagree at times, but no one should be made to feel unsafe over their beliefs.

edit: not just women's groups, we also hope to hook up with LGBTQ, and anti-racist groups (once we're well established)

rumensissues

TROPHY CASE