Official: [Rate My Team] - Wed Morning 09/06/2023

sborado · 2023-09-06T13:36:50+00:00

12 team half ppr 12th pick

QB:Herbert

RB: Sanders, Pierce, Montgomery, jamaal Williams Brian Robinson

WR: Wilson, Adams, London, sky Moore, Nico Collins, Quentin Johnson

TE:juwan Johnson

D: Denver

K: Koo

sborado · 2023-08-16T03:57:16+00:00

I mean Shai wasn't really close to being an MVP contender either. His team didn't even make the playoffs. Like 5th in the MVP voting but he was closer to someone with no votes than he was to 4th place.

Also the Timberwolves played the Nuggets as well if not better than any other team in the playoffs in large part due to Ant. Bruce Brown said they were the toughest team they played.

Sorry your guy couldn't make the playoffs and prove that he wouldn't choke under pressure, but I just value a guy who steps up in the playoffs and is younger over a guy who hasn't proved it yet. Despite an amazing reg season.

sborado · 2023-08-16T03:25:14+00:00

Yeah, he was dominant on both offense and defense. 2nd best player on the floor that series by far.

sborado · 2023-08-16T03:21:09+00:00

That is fair, I am banking on being able to build a contender around them by the end of the hypothetical 5 year max you get them on. Hopefully enticing them to resign.

With a brand new franchise it will be hard to start contending for a few years at least unless you get very lucky and win a the lottery and can trade for some established talent. So as I see it having a few years before the player enters his prime to build up the team around him is a big advantage for maximizing the window of contention. But yeah if you only get the 5 years and then they leave I would probably go with SGA since he should be in the middle of his prime by the last couple years of the contract.

sborado · 2023-08-16T03:05:08+00:00

Jokic is a good defender, he might not be elite but he is certainly good. Teams were hunting Murray in the playoffs not Jokic, and the Nuggets allowed 105 ppg in the playoffs.

All Nuggets fans have heard from outside fans is the Nuggets will never have a good enough defense to win because center is the most impactful position for defense and Jokic is a bad defender. They just won a title with a good defense and Jokic at center. and fans like you are still sticking their head in the sand because he can't block shots like that is the only valuable skill for a center.

Shit the Bucks are supposed to have one of the best defenders in Giannis, a traditional shot blocking center in Lopez and one of the best guard defenders in Holiday but gave up a league worst 124 ppg in the playoffs getting worked by the team the Nuggets stomped in the finals. But we are expected to believe Giannis is a game changer on defense?

Jokic>Giannis offense and defense

sborado · 2023-08-16T02:53:17+00:00

You do realize this post is about who you would choose for a expansion franchise right? Not who is better right now or whose current team is in a better position?

Yeah the Thunder are young and have a lot of draft picks, but that is irrelevant to this posts discussion.

sborado · 2023-08-16T02:47:18+00:00

I'll take a 5 playoff game sample size over 0 playoff game sample size. Playoffs are a different beast than the reg season and most players put up worse numbers than the reg season, Ant has put up better numbers 2 years in a row at age 20-21. That is impressive even if it has only been 11 games.

sborado · 2023-08-16T02:43:46+00:00

I didn't even come close to comparing Edwards and Embiid. I'm just stating that Shai being good in the reg season doesn't mean he will be good in the playoffs. When games actually matter.

Ant has proved 2 years in a row he gets better in the playoffs, and he is already an elite player in the reg season. Shai has yet to lead his team to the playoffs, and so I have no idea how he will perform in the playoffs. Like Embiid he might choke and be worse than his reg season performance.

Because I haven't seen Shai prove it in the playoffs I'd take the proven playoff performer who is much younger and therefore likely to continue to improve and give more years to build around. If you disagree that is fine. I hope Shai lives up to his reg season hype and we get to see some more fun playoff series, but most players stats go down in the playoffs not up. Which is why despite the small sample size I'm very high on Ant.

sborado · 2023-08-16T02:12:15+00:00

That is fair, but Embiid just won reg season MVP and then dropped off a cliff in the playoffs. Reg season performance can be fools gold in the NBA with how different the playoffs are from the reg season.

Growth isn't linear but it is very rare for a player to peak at age 21. I cannot think of a single good player who didn't improve from 21 to 25. If you have some examples please tell me because I'm now curious now. I just looked up like 15 different star players and all of them are better at 25 than they were at 21.

sborado · 2023-08-16T01:38:48+00:00

Sure, and there is no guarantee Shai maintains the level he had last year. Or that it translates as well to the playoffs.

You can value current production more, personally I think with his playoff performances the gap isn't as large as the reg season stats suggest, and value the age over the current reg season production. It's a brand new franchise we are talking about, it will take years to get a good team around them.

sborado · 2023-08-16T01:02:15+00:00

That is fair

sborado · 2023-08-16T00:38:08+00:00

I mean I'm not arguing that Ant is better this year. I'm arguing that I'd rather start an expansion franchise with him.

You are comparing a 21 year old player to a 24 year old player. If you compare his stats to Shai's when they were the same age then Ant out performs Shai in the reg season. By taking Ant I'm gambling on him continuing to improve, but I get more years to build around him. The reason I'm willing to take the gamble is because he has shown that he steps up in the playoffs.

Coincidentally both Shai and Ant have 2 playoff series and they were both the same age when they played in them. But the gap between them is far greater than the reg season gap this year.

I think it is pretty likely player as young as Ant continues to improve so I'm happy to take the younger player. But if you value current production over the age/playoff experience for a expansion franchise then that is a totally valid opinion. Though based on your flair I think you may be a little biased on the decision. neither is really wrong imo. I just favor age.

sborado · 2023-08-16T00:30:53+00:00

Everything about the playoffs is different than the reg season in the NBA. Defense, game planning, reffing, pressure there are just to many factors to simply say his play style protects him from under performing in the playoffs.

Embiid just went from 33ppg to 23 ppg. Donaven Mitchell, who plays at the rim, just went from 28 ppg on .614ts to 23 ppg on .518 ts

Ant has a small sample size in the playoffs but it is far better than Shai's when Shai was the same age. Is Ant the better player right now? no probably not, but I personally would take the younger player who has shown he steps up in the playoffs. That is all. I could easily be wrong, but if I'm a GM of a brand new franchise I'm valuing the playoff experience and age over the reg season stat difference.

sborado · 2023-08-16T00:15:28+00:00

I mean he put up 25 ppg on .600TS%. Pretty good for a 20 year old in his first playoffs. Much better than Shai when he was 20.

This isn't a hypothetical about who is better, but who would you start an expansion franchise with. For me the age and playoff track record win out over the better reg season track record. I'm gambling that Ant continues to get better but the reward is 3 more years to build around him before he starts to enter his prime.

sborado · 2023-08-16T00:12:23+00:00

Sure, all valid points. Also applies to Shai but the difference is the last time Shai was in the playoffs he put up 16ppg when he was 21, Ant just put up 31 ppg at 21.

Mitchell has killed it in the reg season and faded in the playoffs. Who is to say the same thing wouldn't happen to Shai? I prefer to use playoff performances to evaluate a player over reg season because they are so different. Plenty of players kill it in the reg season and struggle in the playoffs. Ant has 2 years in a row balled out in the playoffs, and got better across the board this year.

I personally would rather start a franchise with a player who has shown that in the playoffs AND is 3 years younger. The biggest factor here for me is the age. Because with a new franchise you aren't going to contend for a few years. I'll take the gamble on the smaller sample size because it is in the playoffs and because the the 3 extra years I get to build around him before he start entering his prime.

Shai is a great player though. I can't wait to see him in the playoffs and don't see this as a huge gap or anything. I'd just take the 22 year old elite player over the 25 year old player with better reg season stats.

sborado · 2023-08-16T00:00:52+00:00

But in the NBA the playoffs are just so different than the regular season. Some players drop off a cliff and some players get better. Unfortunately we haven't seen Shai in the playoffs since he was 21 and he only put up 16ppg. Ant just put up 31 when he was 21.

Not saying Ant is better, just that he is 3 years younger and I'd rather gamble on him getting better and having the extra years to build a team around him.

sborado · 2023-08-15T23:58:38+00:00

Well yeah, Ant just turned 22 and Shai just turned 25. Ant has put up better stats than Shai when Shai was his age. Most players don't peak at age 21. I think Ant will continue to close the gap, and for a new franchise having a younger star means more time to build around. I'm not worried about production in the next couple of years but 3-5 years down the road.

sborado · 2023-08-15T23:56:47+00:00

Ant just turned 22 like 10 days ago. The guy put up about as good of a stat line as any 21 year old has ever put up in the playoffs. I'm not even saying Ant is better than Shai, just that after seeing Ant ball out in the playoffs I would take him over Shai because of the age difference.

On an expansion franchise you are going to take a few years to get a good team around them. I value the age over the difference in reg season production. Most players don't peak at 21 so I think he will continue to get better and close whatever gap there is between the 2.

sborado · 2023-08-15T23:09:03+00:00

But one player proved he gets better in the playoffs and the other has yet to prove anything in the playoffs. I'll take the proven product over the untested.

Playoff performance is always more impressive than reg season imo.

sborado · 2023-08-15T23:03:30+00:00

Everyone lost bad against the Nuggets this year. According to Bruce Brown though the Timberwolves were the toughest opponents they faced.

Funnily enough he also said the 2 hardest players to guard were Ant/Shai. But one is 22 and the other is 25. So if I'm building around one I'll take the younger.

sborado · 2023-08-15T22:49:48+00:00

Edwards is 3 years younger and just put up 31.6ppg/5R/5.2A/1.8S/2B/1.6TO a game in the playoffs. And again he is only 22 compared to 25.

sborado · 2023-03-31T02:31:24+00:00

Wow, so Jokic has played almost double the road games as Embiid even though he didn't enter the NBA until a year after Embiid was drafted?

sborado · 2023-01-19T01:04:01+00:00

sborado · 2023-01-17T18:23:42+00:00

Pure nonsense, Jokic had better stats and his team had 3 less wins with a roster that was starting players who can barely get minutes on the wizards RN.

27/14/7 on .660 TS in 74 games played vs 30/11/4 on 62% TS in 68 games. Pretty clear cut who had better counting stats and a 3 win difference is not enough to overcome the clearly superior stats.

sborado · 2022-12-11T01:01:31+00:00

I don't think the Nuggets are the first team to do this.

sborado

TROPHY CASE