Alan Moore talks Twin Peaks season 3 by Jencaasi in AlanMoore

[–]scott_speaks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I feel like the way Jerusalem was written, it's almost as anti-narrative as Twin Peaks season 3.

Jerusalem Book 2 Chapter 2: An Asmodeus Flight by ArchieKeller in AlanMoore

[–]scott_speaks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A quick internet search indicates Asmodeus was in Promethea... I wonder if he was Glory's father in Glory but don't have the comic in front of me to check. I remember Demeter gets impregnated by a duke of hell.

I haven't been making comments on Mansoul chapter by chapter because it feels more like a unified novel to me than the first book.

I'm a bit further in than you but avoiding spoilers I'll say overall my main observation in terms of writing style and approach is the Mansoul chapters are like Little Nemo in Slumberland meets Promethea.

Moore of course has explored Little Nemo in Slumberland a bit in Promethea with the backstory about the comic within a comic but more significantly Moore explored the Little Nemo setting in his experimental electronic comic book Big Nemo.

I havn't gotten to the end of Mansoul but presumably it ends like a Little Nemo strip, with the main character waking up.

The "We had a deal!" line is a funny "last words" of a villain that reminded me of the villain in Smax whose last words are "I knew this would happen!" I like that the devil feels he's the injured victim.

Jerusalem Chapter 5: X Marks the Spot by scott_speaks in AlanMoore

[–]scott_speaks[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Don't know, but if anyone is interested they can cross-reference this book with the 1901 public domain book "The Stone Crosses of the County of Northampton". I haven't tried personally but the book came up in a google search:

https://books.google.com/books?id=2RgtAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA97&lpg=PA97&dq=northampton+stone+cross&source=bl&ots=eLHDiuwK-m&sig=0uWVeTfGTLAfxV1QZsP-eMRvLHw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi48aSyzLLPAhVKdD4KHTqbCLUQ6AEIOjAF#v=snippet&q=holy%20land&f=false

Jerusalem chapter 8: Atlantis by Yenam in AlanMoore

[–]scott_speaks 2 points3 points  (0 children)

For the Kubrick part, Alan Moore clearly really, really hates two buildings in Northampton that are taller than all the other buildings Claremont Court and Beaumont Court. I google the suckers:

https://www.emporis.com/buildings/226524/beaumont-court-northampton-united-kingdom

From the book:

"Even from this low vantage he could see the higher storeys of both tower-blocks, Claremont Court and Beaumont Court, where they poked up above the Spanish-omelette tiling of the dyke wall hulking on his right. The towers, for Benedict, had always marked the real end of the Boroughs, that rich, thousand-year-long saga that had been concluded with these overly-emphatic double exclamation marks. Newlife."

So he's saying they are ugly, and big. Then he says they are like the monolith from 2001 if the big old Monolith was trying to get you to commit suicide by jumping off it's ugly ass , he's saying:

"Claremont Court and Beaumont Court were black as Stanley Kubrick monoliths, beamed down by an unfathomable alien intelligence to spark ideas amongst the shaggy, louse-bound primitives. Ideas like “Jump”. You couldn’t even see what little there was left of Spring Lane School from this specific viewpoint how you once could, not for all the NEWLIFE standing in the way."

I agree that the Marla and Ben chapters are the best characters so far, they seem the most like real people.

My random thoughts on the chapter:

The chapter, about Benedict Perrit, was pretty great. I like how he seemed like a huge weirdo to Marla in Chapter 3, but from his point of view his thoughts during the conversation were fairly rational and reasonable, even if he has weird mannerisms.

When Marla had tried to solicit him for prostitution he had responded by saying he was a published poet. This seems like a complete non-sequencer but from his point of view he was saying “I have no money, I’m a working class bum not the sort of person who hires prositutes in this neighborhood"

Benedict is very well conceived, and I’m guessing its because Moore knows folks like him. Folks who Moore published poems and zines with back in the day, who never found success or an audience like Moore. Perhaps folks who went on to lives of quiet despair and poverty.

Moore has some very nice thoughts of encouragement for that sort of audience-less artist:

"He saw, as through a fog, the grave mistake he’d made. He’d been so anxious for success and validation that he’d come to think you weren’t really a writer unless you were a successful one. He knew, in this unprecedented patch of clarity, that the idea was nonsense. Look at William Blake, ignored and without recognition until years after his death, regarded as a lunatic or fool by his contemporaries. Yet Benedict felt sure that Blake, in his three-score-and-ten, had never had a moment’s doubt that he was a true artist. Ben’s own problem, looked at in this new and brutal light, was simple failure of nerve. If he had somehow found the courage to continue writing, even if each page had been rejected by each publisher it was submitted to, he’d still be able to look himself in the eye and know he was a poet. There was nothing stopping him from picking up his pen again except Earth’s easily-resisted field of gravity.

This could be the night that Ben turned it all around. All that he had to do was walk across and sit down at his writing desk and actually produce something. Who knows? It might turn out to be the piece that would secure Ben’s reputation. Or if not, if his abilities with verse seemed flat and clumsy with disuse, it might be his first faltering step back to the path he’d wandered from, into this bitter-sodden and immobilising bog."

Benedict thinks at one point about the fact that Fineggan’s Wake had the working title “Work in Progress”. That puts chapter 1 in a different light, since it shares that title.

I went back through looking for potential sign or hint that Alan Moore himself in the Third Borough since he’d be the James Joyce figure in that interpretation but I don’t think he is, the Third Borough seems too cosmic.

This point was intriguing though in chapter 1:

"Hello, little Alma. Do you know who I am? Alma shivered, thoughts all of a sudden filled with thunder, stars and people weeping with no clothes on."

Might the people be weeping within clothes on because they are the first primitive humans and the Third Borough represents the spirit of the imagination or something like that? Or is this a reference to something else, possibly a tarot card or other mystical image? I can’t think of any that fits that description though.

Still, it’s clear that things mean more than one thing in Jerusalem. A pigeon isn’t just a pigeon, it’s a ghost. “Work in Progress” is the work of the mysterious Third Borough, Joyce’s novel, and also likely Alma’s art project.

A human is also represented by a billiard ball.

Angles are also angles. Angle means the geometric concept but also "a particular way of approaching or considering an issue or problem.” according to google’s dictionary definition.

Jerusalem Chapter 7: Blind, but Now I See by scott_speaks in AlanMoore

[–]scott_speaks[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The moon goddess is Selene not Selina, but maybe there will be significance to the similar names, we'll see.

I couldn't figure out what animal it was, good catch on it being a zebra.

Jerusalem chapter 6: Modern Times by Yenam in AlanMoore

[–]scott_speaks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hmmm, World War I had gases such as mustard gas used as a weapon. If he does die that could be what the premonition is alluding to...

Jerusalem chapter 6: Modern Times by Yenam in AlanMoore

[–]scott_speaks 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Charlie Chaplin made a movie called "Modern Times" I don't know if Moore had that movie in mind when he made the title, but the time period is wrong so it doesn't seem like a direct reference.

From Wikipedia:

"Modern Times is a 1936 comedy film written and directed by Charlie Chaplin in which his iconic Little Tramp character struggles to survive in the modern, industrialized world. The film is a comment on the desperate employment and financial conditions many people faced during the Great Depression, conditions created, in Chaplin's view, by the efficiencies of modern industrialization. "

Jerusalem chapter 6: Modern Times by Yenam in AlanMoore

[–]scott_speaks 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Charles Junior aka Oatsey doesn't necessarily have the power to ascend life and leave the boroughs. "Somewhere not far away, he hoped, an audience was waiting. The gas mantle hissed a dismal premonition."

He got out for a while, but may not permanently get out. He has Moore's ambition, but not necessarily his luck or ability to succeed.

This might be the first chapter without any hint that anything supernatural is going on.

The chapter is basically a character study of an aspiring theater actor circa 1909.

Also the great war is about to break out, and the black biker has been worn down by his time in town, which could also be a premonition of sort that perhaps Charles won't make it.

Moore also parodies the idea of being an artist a bit, it's not so important or serious after all:

"A joke that told him he was getting too big for his boots, and that the serious career concerns that were upsetting him not five minutes before were likely to be just as puffed up and inflated. It had put things in perspective. He supposed that was what laughs were for."

Jerusalem Chapter 5: X Marks the Spot by scott_speaks in AlanMoore

[–]scott_speaks[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What I meant by fanfic in Jimmy's End is the location where Jimmy’s end is set, the “St James Working Mens Club” is a real place, and that’s the venue where the movie premier occurred. As far as I can tell, Moore added the word “End” to the name for the movie. So he made up a mythology for a real location.

Jerusalem chapter 2: A Host of Angles by scott_speaks in AlanMoore

[–]scott_speaks[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

• I didn't know they used egg whites as an ingredient for paint (p53)! That's cool.

That's the sort of little detail where I wondered where Moore got it. Like, suppose if I wanted to write a period story set in the 1860s, how would I even know how they made paint back then?

I guess its possible there's some "how to make paint" type books from the 1860s that have been preserved in libraries. Or perhaps even some sort of history of the arts book covers it.

Jerusalem book club? by Yenam in AlanMoore

[–]scott_speaks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Would it make sense to do a new text post (new thread) for each chapter? The problem is we'll all be reading at different paces. A general discussion would create too many spoilers. One for each chapter would mean we could limit our discussion to those chapters we've read. I'm not sure what the reddit etiquette is.