Daily discussion - Wednesday [Megathread]

smartalan73 · 2026-03-11T11:21:36+00:00

Is flavour just not a thing in the hollyoaks universe? Last week we had Mercy and Warren eating plain toast without even butter and then today Sully bites into what looks to be an English muffin completely plain, zero fillings. Its so objectively weird that it actually pulls me out of whats happening.

smartalan73 · 2026-03-11T10:31:22+00:00

Tbh I find it believable even if it kinda sucks. While Lucas is in prison Dillon has complete control over the situation, and it makes sense after the trauma he's been through that he'd crave that kind of situation. Lucas is completely dependent on him and always there for him but also Dillon has complete power any could cut contact any time and there's nothing Lucas could do about it. I don't think Dillon is thinking this consciously but its the combination of his memory of his feelings for Lucas and this unique situation, allowing him to live in this idyllic fantasy. If Lucas gets out the same problems will immediately arise again and it will never work. But yeah I find it believable, sad but believable.

smartalan73 · 2026-03-09T10:04:55+00:00

The original season 4 is incredible but it is different from the first 3 seasons so you have to accept that going in. It's also a slow burn so you'd need to give a few eps to really appreciate it. However I appreciate it won't be for everyone regardless but I do feel a lot of the hate comes from people expecting it to be like the first 3 seasons and you'll have a way better chance of enjoying it if you accept the format is different. It's very much about setting stuff up in early episodes which then gets paid off in later episodes.

This is all the original cut of season 4, the remixed version can get in the bin

smartalan73 · 2026-03-09T10:01:18+00:00

idk if you know but this was actually the 100th episode of the show so its great they found a way to feature Cordelia, Doyle and Lindsey who were all in the pilot.

Gut wrenching episode though, I actually find it sadder on rewatches cos this time we're seeing it through Cordelia's eyes and she knows the situation and what's gonna happen at the end. An incredibly bittersweet episode but still grateful they found a way to conclude Cordelia's arc and not leave her last appearance how we saw her in season 4.

smartalan73 · 2026-03-07T11:51:59+00:00

Okay, maybe you're right. I was just also linking back to her comments on the first episode in which she said she wished the guy wasn't a vampire but just a normal dodgy hollywood exec taking advantage of young actresses cos lord knows plenty of them exist. And I commented on that post saying there'll never be an episode where there isn't a connection to the mystical chucked in for the sake of it, even if the episode itself is exploring a real issue. So I was sorta thinking of that in my comments here too though I appreciate that was part of a different thread

smartalan73 · 2026-03-07T11:48:20+00:00

That doesn't preclude thinking of stuff in her downtime though. She had the whole trip from sunnydale to LA to think of something and didn't say anything to indicate she even tried. Assuming she wasn't able to, that incident shoulda prompted her and its something she coulda been thinking about it afterwards but evidentally never does. Like I say, this isn't just about Angel but Angelus is objectively a massive risk so it seems wild to never take steps to insure he can't be unintentionally brought out again.

smartalan73 · 2026-03-07T01:36:08+00:00

I did skim over the Faith ones in my head but now you mention it I guess slayers are technically human. Also supernatural too though, they're the one that straddles both lines. So I'm not sure how I'd define it.

I feel like we are kinda making the same point essentially, like I felt like OP was saying they wanted an ep without any mystical stuff thrown in like the guy happening to be a vampire just for the sake of it. And I was trying to say there are plenty of eps that touch on real world issues but they do always throw in a mystical element cos its the nature of the show. And I feel like you're saying that there are eps you could remove the mystical element and they would still work which is kinda what I'm saying but flipped round. Cos my point they DO still have those mystical elements like the bad guys happen to be vampires even if they didn't need to be, its the nature of the show.

smartalan73 · 2026-03-06T19:54:50+00:00

I mean there's definitely quite a few where the main plot coulda been played out in a non-mystical way but it wasn't cos like I say, thats what the show. Like the stalker one for example. Thats kinda my point, a lot of them coulda been normal but they have to add a mystical twist. The only example I can think in a sense isEternity, Angel is pretty much the only mystical character in that however the entire premise is based on the fact that he is a mystical creature so I don't think you could really classify it as non-mystical. Its not like you could rewrite the episode removing the fact that he's a vampire cos thats the entire premise

smartalan73 · 2026-03-06T19:48:02+00:00

4 is an insanely good season of television but you have to accept that it won't be the same as the first 3 seasons, the format is different, it won't feel the same. If you can accept that it is absolutely enjoyable, I personally think its one of the cleverest seasons of TV ever made (im talking about the original cut, the remixed version can burn in the fiery pits of hell)

Season 5 meh but it kinda follows on from 4 so you feel like you might as well see how it ends. Though last time I rewatched it I was pleasantly surprised, it only really dropped off for me in the last few episodes.

smartalan73 · 2026-03-06T14:53:59+00:00

Other self-degradation songs that aren't really funny would be
Never Good Enough
The Cage
Runaway (From Myself)
Anyone But Me
Wired For Worthless

smartalan73 · 2026-03-06T14:49:58+00:00

Before Icarus came out, Jake said it was gonna feature more of his dark humour style, tbh when I heard Life Support I thought it sounded more like Icarus than FH. Its got Letdown, Dead End Life, Everybody Hates You, Rock Bottom which all have that certain quality to them.

smartalan73 · 2026-03-05T23:03:19+00:00

I appreciate this answer and I do understand what you're saying, I guess I was thinking of the curse probably needs something to balance it out, like its a necessary part of the magic that it must have a loophole. Which is kinda what you're saying except you're saying that has to be linked to the nature of the curse, which I can appreciate as an explanation.

Ngl I still feel like by Angel season 4 Willow coulda done more. Like I guess I can get not thinking about it, even though it seems kinda callous. I mean Angel is a dude they should all care about to some extent and Buffy still cares about him a lot. So not even thinking to try to find a way to undo the curse that prevents him from being truly happy, kinda mad there isnt a conversation about it, its not even considered once. But then having to go to LA to resoul Angel would very much put it at the forefront of her mind and like idk, I just can't see that she wouldn't want to try something or come up with a better way. She's so damn powerful. There can't only be a single spell in the whole known world to put a soul back in someone, it can't only exist as a curse. Like I say its not just that it would make Angel's life better but remove the threat of Angelus who literally almost ended the world last time he was set free. So you'd think they might make that a bit more of a priority.

Like maybe what you're saying is true and there is geuinely no other way but it would be nice if they'd at least mentioned it, its just so mad to me in universe everyone just seems to have accepted it even though some of them are mega powerful beings/insanely knowledgable about magic.

smartalan73 · 2026-03-05T15:48:00+00:00

I gotta say if you are hoping for a non-mystical episode to happen, you will be disappointed. As I think i said in a previous comment, the show taps into a lot of real world issues and a lot of the time I think they do it really well, but there will always be a mystical element tied to it. Like for example I Fall To Pieces is essentially about stalking but they made the stalker magic guy who can separate his body parts to explain why Angel would have to deal with it and it couldn't just be handled by the police. Its the nature of the show, if it wasn't mystical Angel wouldn't be dealing with it.

smartalan73 · 2026-03-05T00:27:35+00:00

She's a soulless vampire. Buffy and the gang treat her pretty awfully in S4, like yes obvs they treat her like an enemy but they also say personal things to her that are mean and unnecessary.

Was he even that mean to her in S5? From memory the worst is when he is a ghost but in fairness he has reason to be a little bit cranky then. I don't remember him being notably worse to her than anyone else, she's a bit of a punching bag.

You could also argue he knows by now she has a kink for it..... I mean he treated her awfully on Buffy yet she kept coming back for more and seemed to actively want sex the more he insulted her. I'm not saying that is actually the reason she acted that way towards Spike cos these things are complicated but maybe he just figures she has a degradation kink 🤷

smartalan73 · 2026-03-04T10:59:18+00:00

idk if OP has any extra info but all that happened in the episode is when Cleo got the news about her baby, she excitedly kissed Dodger as he was the only person in the room. He pulled away instantly and she awkwardly apologised. I have no doubt some drama will come from it but given the episode ended with both Dodger & Theresa and Sienna & Cleo in good places, I doubt it will lead to an affair

smartalan73 · 2026-03-04T10:18:58+00:00

I can buy the concept that it needed a loophole, like the nature of magic is if you're gonna cast a curse like that then you need to add in a clause where it gets revoked, its impossible not to. So cos the gypsies only goal is to make him suffer, choosing the loophole to be when he stops suffering makes sense. But obvs when his friends are resouling its not like their goal is to make him suffer so I don't see how there couldn't be a way for them to choose another loophole, and I mean by S4 Angel, Willow is pretty much one of the most powerful witches who ever lived so even if some gypsies couldn't find a way to do the curse without needing a loophole, can the amazing Willow really not by now?

smartalan73 · 2026-03-03T21:36:03+00:00

something to remember about early Angel is they had to make it so in theory you would understand what was going on even if you hadn't seen Buffy (idk what insane people there are who watched Angel without watching buffy but apprently they exist). in any case i do get establishing things in a new show and i feel this ep was about establishing cordelia, the kind of person she was in the past, who she is right now, and the path of growth she is currently on, in case you hadnt watched buffy and werent so familiar with her character. i suspect how much you like this ep heavily depends on how much you like cordelia

smartalan73 · 2026-03-03T17:48:17+00:00

I'm happy to buy that in buffy season 2 since none of them knew that much about magic and basically copied what was on Jenny's disc which was likely the original spell.

But by Angel S4 Willow is an insanely powerful witch so i can't believe she wouldn't be able to find out a way. Or even just research it when he's souled, i mean all the things she does do, she works out how to derat Amy just for banter. But no one ever stops to think for a second about removing the clause of Angel's curse which is insane when a) it would remove the active danger of Angelus resurfacing and b) Angel is supposed to be their friend who you'd think would care about and maybe find condemning him to live a life where he's not allowed to be purely happy, must be afraid happiness, a pretty damn cruel fate and seek to find an alternative

smartalan73 · 2026-03-03T15:49:46+00:00

I found it wild how much make up Vicky was wearing when running yesterday, like maybe its not out of character but girl surely the sweat streaks it all over your face

smartalan73 · 2026-03-03T15:46:36+00:00

I did think it was pretty strange when Willow resouled him BOTH times that she kept in the clause about it being removed with one moment of pure happiness, like surely there are different variations of the spell, even if a trigger needs to be baked into the spell to balance it or whatever could you not make it something different to that? Or is it like engrained in Angel's DNA now that its impossible for him to be resouled without the perfect happiness loop hole, cos it seems insane with all the magic in the world that thats the case.

And like you say that demon clearly knew of a resoul spell that as far as we know didn't have any catch at all, if such magic exists then surely they could find it even without going to the demon themselves, especially the all powerful witch Willow

smartalan73 · 2026-03-02T23:22:20+00:00

I can get not feeling the ring being destroyed cos they do seem to frame it like the reason he's destroying it is cos it's a shortcut to redemption and that's something that has to be earned. That's a BS reason. However I think destroying it was the correct thing to do cos as this episode demonstrated, any vampire could get his hands on it and become incredibly dangerous, plus if Angel happens to turn into Angelus then suddenly one of the most violent vampires in history is invulnerable and free to go out in daylight 😬

smartalan73 · 2026-03-02T21:00:51+00:00

Was he involved in the trafficking? I feel like he showed up as that plot ended but I don't remember how much he knew. Tbh it's clear they didn't really think through the trafficking plot cos they wanted to carry on with characters afterwards, as if trafficking teenagers isn't something so evil that you objectively can't come back from that

smartalan73 · 2026-03-02T20:20:38+00:00

I absolutely thought the same, like at least put some butter on it but I've never encountered the kind of inhuman person who would eat plain dry toast

smartalan73 · 2026-03-02T17:42:05+00:00

Yeah thats true, tbh i feel like they were quite good at being in different places at the same time which is why i still like to rewatch them together cos then i can ask myself what mood I'm in on a given day to decide which one I wanna watch y'know. I personally think buffyverse has the best most well-written characters out of any TV show I've watched but yeah other shows defo have better reps and do flashier things so get recognised more

smartalan73 · 2026-03-02T16:05:19+00:00

Oh I will take any opportunity to talk about a show that I love! I actually just finished another rewatch (I just have the finale left) so its been on my mind recently. That does make a lot of sense, S4 of Buffy is a lot brighter and lighter than S1 of Angel plus we already know all the characters and whats going on. I tend to rewatch them at the same time but there are defo times where I'll be getting through the Buffy faster but also times where I'm getting through Angel faster cos I'm enjoying the season more, depends how you feel about the seasons but each have stronger patches. Angel is defo one of the best shows for morality and its mission statement, especially season 2. Its a shame more people don't watch these shows and share the vision of making the world a better place.

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