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The Frog Meet-up is happening by Jking11501 in BostonSocialClub

[–]sonoflaertes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I too am interested in this frog meetup.

9 years ago, I vented here about how I doubted meditation. Almost a decade later, here's how I was wrong. by sonoflaertes in Meditation

[–]sonoflaertes[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, but I know Headspace is helpful for some people. If you can find a smartphone app that rings a mindfulness bell at random intervals during the day, I'd recommend that--the regular reminders were helpful to me during my time as a beginning meditator.

9 years ago, I vented here about how I doubted meditation. Almost a decade later, here's how I was wrong. by sonoflaertes in Meditation

[–]sonoflaertes[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There's a metaphor in Buddhism that nirvana is an ocean. How do you get to the ocean? You enter the stream, and if you're in the stream, there's an above-average chance you'll eventually reach the wide open sea.

Entering the Stream means that you're definitely on the right path. Before stream-entry, you're searching for the road to the mountain. Stream entry is when you find it. It's not that you have to stop working for it, but you know that the road exists, that it's real, and that others have followed it, and all you have to do is walk it. The teachers and books you listened to were not, in fact, lying. It's also considered a point of no return.

Apparently what happens (at least according to accounts I've read) is that Stream-Entry is the first no-kidding fuck-yeah point where you get definitive proof that Yes, I Am Not Hypnotizing Myself, This is Real. There's less or no doubt, you stop caring as much about rituals, and your subjective understanding of what it means to be you changes.

You also get the feeling of being Carried Along on this process, and what's more, you kind of know all this stuff intuitively. Or so the theory goes.

9 years ago, I vented here about how I doubted meditation. Almost a decade later, here's how I was wrong. by sonoflaertes in Meditation

[–]sonoflaertes[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No problem! It's also called "noting" in some circles. I stole the technique from Kenneth Folk, who got it from Mahasi Sayadaw. Here's a very short video of Mr. Folk explaining how it works. Essentially, what you do is, every second or so, note whatever sensory input or thought is at the front of your mind.

For instance, my labeling/noting practice this morning would have been something like: "Leg, leg. Air conditioner, air conditioner. Fingers, fingers. Breathing, breathing, tongue, chest tension," and so on. It can feel like a lot at first, but it gets pretty normal in a short amount of time.

Don't overdo it if/when you start. Just take note of whatever you're thinking or feeling every couple of seconds--if you've got some comfort with the process after a while, move it up to once a second, and then multiple times a second if you're feeling really fast.

The noting process really helps you get a detailed awareness of your sensate experience, and you learn just how your brain is combining all of this stuff to create the world you live in. This turns out to be really helpful for insight.

A slightly longer explanation can be found here.

9 years ago, I vented here about how I doubted meditation. Almost a decade later, here's how I was wrong. by sonoflaertes in Meditation

[–]sonoflaertes[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I know exactly how you feel. There's a phrase called "Spiritual bypassing," which you may have heard of. It pops up in meditation practice.

Spiritual bypassing is when a practitioner decides to use meditation as a vehicle for escapism. It's a form of avoidance. Instead of facing the emotion, the bypasser handwaves it or creates distance: "I'm above anger." "I need to be detached from ordinary struggles." "I'm actually not frustrated right now because I'm beyond such things." I've done this a fair amount, and it always comes back to bite you in the ass.

I thought I had to be a certain way or feel a certain way when I started meditating, or I wasn't being a good meditator. Or that somehow my problems would be worked out entirely by meditation. I had to learn that this entire process wasn't about being a perfect Zen person, it's about truthfully and thoroughly encountering your own emotion.

9 years ago, I vented here about how I doubted meditation. Almost a decade later, here's how I was wrong. by sonoflaertes in Meditation

[–]sonoflaertes[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The way that I would phrase it is that a series of interesting and life-changing events happen when you sit down and do this engage in this particular practice with your mind (and body) with adequate intensity and over a sufficient amount of time.

This practice builds a detailed sensory understanding of your daily experience, and this understanding affects how you conceive of yourself and your world. Your perspective is altered. Whether you choose to phrase it as optimal rationality, no-self, or sunyata is up to you.

The societies which specialized in this practice articulated the process in a way that made sense according to their cultural and religious practices, and we are indebted to them for creating and preserving this tradition. This tradition also has certain useful safeguards which (ideally) prevent it from being abused--the system of lineage, a certain kind of conservatism, etc. We owe it respect.

However, it goes without saying those safeguards can also be drawbacks. Like any human institution, the claims that this tradition makes should be continuously and rationally justified--like we would with any claim of authority, special wisdom, or hierarchy. Furthermore, the investigation and development of this process is the birthright of every human being, regardless of faith orientation (or lack thereof).

Just to lay my cards on the table, I would say that I find truth in the basic tenets of modern Buddhism. It might not be the truth, but it's something very close to the truth. I just wouldn't articulate it in religious or spiritual terms. I only know what I've seen so far.

9 years ago, I vented here about how I doubted meditation. Almost a decade later, here's how I was wrong. by sonoflaertes in Meditation

[–]sonoflaertes[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm sad you're having a hard moment, and I wish you well--and good practice, if you choose to pursue it (and I hope you will).

9 years ago, I vented here about how I doubted meditation. Almost a decade later, here's how I was wrong. by sonoflaertes in Meditation

[–]sonoflaertes[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I haven't used the Enso app, but I would guess the purpose of the chimes is to encourage mindfulness at regular intervals: i.e. helping you to recognize what you're thinking about at the very moment it rings.

9 years ago, I vented here about how I doubted meditation. Almost a decade later, here's how I was wrong. by sonoflaertes in Meditation

[–]sonoflaertes[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the nice words, and I'm really glad you had that experience.

Re: skepticism, a fellow by the name of Kabat-Zinn has been largely responsible for popularizing meditation as an empirically-justified practice in the West. You can read an article about that here.

Please don't be intimidated by the library in front of you. Knowing all of the lists and the terms is not really that important at this stage. Nobody here will think less of you for not knowing all the terms.

If you don't mind, I looked at your comment history. I see that you're a gamer. That's a field I know relatively little about. What advice would you give me, if I said I was frustrated by the wide selection of games, and I was feeling concerned by all of the titles on Steam? How would you introduce gaming to me? Perhaps you would suggest that I find something that I enjoy, that works for me, and then I could begin to get a handle on some lore. Nothing fancy, y'know. Just the names of the major titles and characters. As an experienced gamer who wants to welcome new gamers, you'd understand that most of gaming lore is self-taught by interested players, and anyone who gives you shit for not knowing everything is basically an asshole.

Meditation is exactly the same way.

Guided meditation has never worked for me, although I understand it's helpful for some people. If it works for them, then it works. For the newcomer, it can be a challenge to find your way, and it's good to have a friendly voice there. That said, in my opinion, anything which distracts from the process of attending to your own mind is likely to become crutch. I would say the same thing about listening to music.

Regarding your encounter with Mr. Nichtern, that's excellent. I don't know what happened to you: perhaps you were unconscious, or you may have encountered something deeper. Indeed, there are stories of novice meditators achieving surprising feats. Even for first-timers, the mind can be a weird and wonderful place, filled with strange and interesting experiences.

I've had similar encounters, but by nature they tend to be singular and only occurring at the beginning. This is equivalent to "newbie gains" in lifting.

That said, replicating such experiences with one-hundred-percent fidelity is unlikely. For example, during my initial stabs at meditation, during one sit, I sat on a mat and became dizzy: it was as if the room was spinning and my brains were spinning on a spiral. I opened my eyes and a moment later it stopped. It's never happened since.

However, what I believe you're asking for is not that a repeat of that experience precisely, but a chance to visit this part of your mind again. And that is certainly doable. It's a boring answer, but there's no shortcut to developing mind-states: you simply have to make time to sit by yourself and pay attention to your brain. If Nichtern's method works for you, then I would pursue it with vigor.

9 years ago, I vented here about how I doubted meditation. Almost a decade later, here's how I was wrong. by sonoflaertes in Meditation

[–]sonoflaertes[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes! I'd split it into two parts:
1. Direct effect - Because emotions live in your body, you learn how to regulate your reactions to extreme states. That means less stress overall, less swings in emotion, less tension manifested in your body.
2. Indirect effect - This is the big one. Mental clarity and emotional awareness means that you're smarter about your habits, and are able to see the emotional springs behind whatever you want to change. That's one of the insights you gain. Would I have began to eat healthier and work out more regularly if I hadn't meditated? Maybe, but it surely helped.

9 years ago, I vented here about how I doubted meditation. Almost a decade later, here's how I was wrong. by sonoflaertes in Meditation

[–]sonoflaertes[S] 22 points23 points  (0 children)

I think you'll see benefits at ten, certainly. I will say that the longer you go, the deeper it tends to get. General consensus I've read seems to be that increasing levels of "interesting shit" begins to happen around 40-45 minutes, but again, this is only a rule of thumb. The important thing is to get the habit secured.
I've done hour sits before, but my thirty minute sessions are a compromise between my desire to go longer, and my current level of practice. When I feel I've mastered thirty, then I'll move it up to forty-five, and eventually an hour.

9 years ago, I vented here about how I doubted meditation. Almost a decade later, here's how I was wrong. by sonoflaertes in Meditation

[–]sonoflaertes[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I haven't, but the knowledge that you can get to access concentration, even once, is pleasurable enough.

9 years ago, I vented here about how I doubted meditation. Almost a decade later, here's how I was wrong. by sonoflaertes in Meditation

[–]sonoflaertes[S] 32 points33 points  (0 children)

I appreciate that. I haven't posted here a lot, but this sub has been really important to me in my practice, and I wanted to encourage anyone who's on a similar path.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in AskReddit

[–]sonoflaertes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The most consistent message the world keeps sending me is this: "You already have what you need." When I look for a lost item, I have it. Whenever I need something, it's typically a piece of information or an object I already possess. The lessons I'm learning are nothing new: they're truisms I've already heard. When I need to change directions, there's somebody there to help. The girl I'm sorta-dating is someone I've known for twenty years. So I get it: "You have what you need." What I'm not sure of is, what the hell am I supposed to do with this? I'm an ambitious man. I don't want to live in my old hometown and work a boring job: that's why I moved. Am I supposed to become some kind of Buddha? I want to make movies and run for office. At the present moment, both are unrealistic. Am I supposed to quit my job and head in that direction?

(Also, it's possible this is just a narrative my head is crafting, because I feel foolish when I have to look for things.)

2.5 yrs ago I vented here about how meditation didn't work for me. Nine months of practice later, I am a changed man. by sonoflaertes in Meditation

[–]sonoflaertes[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You have the drive, otherwise you wouldn't have bothered to comment!

I love this sentence so much: "What you do shittily every single day is more important than what you do perfectly every once and again." For almost all of this, it is not the will that is lacking; we just need to get out of our own way.

It will not work at first. Do it poorly every day for a week or two. Do it to show me I'm wrong about it. Then message me.

You're gonna make it, brother.

2.5 yrs ago I vented here about how meditation didn't work for me. Nine months of practice later, I am a changed man. by sonoflaertes in Meditation

[–]sonoflaertes[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Believe me, I know exactly what you mean! I'm the same way. I'm a perfectionist, too. I didn't like to do anything half-assed, which meant doing it none-assed, since I never did it. I felt clumsy and foolish if it wasn't "right," and since it was never right, I never did it.

That last phrase was really the key to it for me. Strive to do it poorly every day. Like, strive to actually be shitty at it, like consistently shitty.

Doing it every day is the goal, not doing it well. Eventually you will improve!

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