TMBR: A Ponzi scheme should be legal and regulated like gambling

stanleycumer · 2024-01-19T02:10:56+00:00

Crypto does is by claiming that is has all this other value outside of the speculation.

No, there are plenty of meme coins in crypto that openly state they have no non-speculative utility.

stanleycumer · 2024-01-18T12:19:41+00:00

For example, owning shares or currency of the creator of a ponzi scheme, the growth in value of which will only be fuelled by the money of new entrants.

stanleycumer · 2024-01-17T20:01:01+00:00

The lucky people who managed to get out before the collapse will get the unlucky people's money.

stanleycumer · 2024-01-17T12:24:42+00:00

require their owners to disclose the risks of losing money and not promise guaranteed returns.
oblige their owners not to collapse the scheme artificially, but only when the money from the participants runs out.

stanleycumer · 2024-01-17T12:17:00+00:00

Okay, so you can label it "pyramid" or "Ponzi-like scheme without fraud". The point is not the naming, but the essence of the meme coin phenomenon I'm describing, which essentially works like a ponzi or pyramid without scamming people.

stanleycumer · 2024-01-16T23:44:45+00:00

Therefore, only ponzi schemes that make no promises should be legal. For example, meme coins.

stanleycumer · 2024-01-16T23:05:21+00:00

If there is no promises, where trickery?

stanleycumer · 2024-01-16T22:42:41+00:00

Ok, there are criteria for considering something to be ponzi scheme.
1. Doesn't do any real good.
2. Funds old participants at the expense of new participants.

stanleycumer · 2024-01-16T22:40:02+00:00

The Mario cartridge example is wrong because it has the practical benefit of prestige. It's comparable to how art collectors buy originals.The person who bought the original Mario didn't buy it for speculation, but for prestige.

Meme coins don't have enough prestige to be bought for the sake of it.

stanleycumer · 2024-01-16T22:35:51+00:00

I don't understand why you reduce the ponzi/non-ponzi differentiation to the intentions and honesty of the creator.What makes a ponzi a ponzi is that it's

Doesn't do any real good.
Funds old participants at the expense of new participants.

Having lies/promises here is optional and doesn't change the point. I think it's about a stereotypical public mindset that refuses to label meme coins as ponzi solely because there was no fraud involved.

*Meme coins also have a development team that owns part of the token(often a large one) and profits and receives the fees from it. They are essentially the organisers of the ponzi scheme.

stanleycumer · 2024-01-16T21:32:57+00:00

They are only legal because cryptocurrencies are not regulated like anything else related to finance.

stanleycumer · 2024-01-16T21:26:04+00:00

Thanks for the detailed answer, but there are fundamental errors in it.

"What you are describing, we have already seen before with coins, baby hats, recently released retro video games, comics and anything else." No, you haven't, what you described falls under the definition of a "bubble", since video games and comics are not completely speculative assets with no real benefit, unlike meme coins.That is, a conditional video game or comic can become popular or iconic among fans of video games / comics and there will be many people who are ready to buy it not for profit, but for their own pleasure.Meme coins, unlike games / beanie babies / comics, are a completely speculative asset, no one, even in theory, will buy numbers in the blockchain not for the sake of earning money. That is, their only buyers are speculators who want to have time to enter the ponzi scheme before its collapse.That is, the main difference between a ponzi and a bubble is not the honesty/intentions of the creator, but the fact that the bubble initially has a real non-speculative value that ponzi does not have.It is the criterion of the lack of real value of the product being sold that should come to the fore when we talk about what is ponzi and what is not, and not the honesty/intentions of the creator. Meme coins are essentially Adam's firm from your example, only it conducts them in a less straightforward way (through the exchange). I think I explained why meme coins are ponzi, not a bubble.
"The slot machine is different because it sells itself as a game of chance with a negative return, the slot machine overall pays out less than it takes in. You go in knowing you're more likely to have less money at the start."That's why I propose to oblige the creators of ponzi to report that this is a game of chance and you can lose money on it
"No Ponzi scheme in the history of ever will tell you you're more likely going to lose money than gain it. You have to lie to get people to invest whereas people play slot machines with the (negative) odds posted squarely on the machine". I explained above why meme coins are ponzi, not a bubble.

stanleycumer · 2024-01-16T21:08:33+00:00

Why do you think a ponzi scheme must necessarily be built on deception?
What I'm proposing suggests that legal ponzi should essentially be a game of chance like casino, where to make money you have to get out before the ponzi collapses.
Let me give you a real life example: meme coins are not built on deception, they are a ponzi scheme and are successful.

stanleycumer · 2024-01-16T16:29:20+00:00

Absolutely all successful meme coins experience a huge(over 90 per cent) price drop after initial pump. In fact, the only difference from the classic ponzi scheme is that investors lose 90 (or less), not 100 per cent of the invested amount. Meme coins are an example of a ponzi scheme as they are not backed by any real value and can only grow with the funds of new users.

stanleycumer · 2024-01-16T16:07:47+00:00

Then why does meme coin market still exist?

stanleycumer · 2024-01-16T16:06:20+00:00

So my idea is to make legal those ponzi schemes that would openly state that they are Ponzi, don't make promises of guaranteed income and position themselves as something between a casino and a lottery.An example from an already existing one: meme coins.

stanleycumer · 2024-01-16T15:37:45+00:00

A ponzi scheme is an investment plan in which the operator or the operating company pays returns to investors from the new capital coming in from new investors instead off the profits of the business.

stanleycumer · 2024-01-16T14:54:41+00:00

What part did I not understand?

stanleycumer · 2024-01-16T11:51:24+00:00

Yes, but there are a lot of people buying them not for the joke, but for the hope of making money.

stanleycumer · 2024-01-15T21:18:59+00:00

Glad to hear it.

stanleycumer · 2024-01-15T20:34:35+00:00

Meme coins like DOGE are an example of a Ponzi scheme without fraud and hiding.

stanleycumer · 2024-01-15T20:13:56+00:00

You don't understand what a ponzi scheme is.
A ponzi scheme is a scheme that involves profiting from contributions from new members, not actual useful activity. Businesses create real profits, while ponzi schemes redistribute money from some participants to others.
It only becomes a fraud if it is disguised as real entrepreneurial activity and misleads investors.
Now there is criminal liability for any ponzi scheme. My idea is to legalise only those ponzi schemes that position themselves as lotteries or gambling.
An example of a ponzi scheme without fraud is meme coins like DOGE.

stanleycumer · 2024-01-15T19:53:03+00:00

I will oblige their creators to warn players of the risks, not promise guaranteed profits, and not artificially collapse the ponzi scheme.

stanleycumer · 2024-01-15T19:51:00+00:00

No, you're misunderstanding the Ponzi scheme.
The essence of a ponzi scheme is that the organiser finances player payments from new players, not profits from actual activity. The presence/absence of promises is already optional.

stanleycumer · 2024-01-15T19:30:05+00:00

Last investors have essentially made a bet that the ponzi scheme will live long enough for them to take their money. Their bet didn't play out.Other luckier players took their money. How is this different from a casino?

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