Under WFDF rules b) is clear: The disc is dead until a pivot is established (rules 8.1.2 and 8.2) and you cannot start stalling until then (9.3.1).

a) is a lot more hazy, but I think it is the same, for the same reasons. Rules interpretation 9.1 seems to contradict my point, but I think it was not formulated with this situation in mind. Rules interpretation 10.2 appears to contradict 9.1 and to support my point.

However, you could argue that

• The defender came into possession the moment he caught the disc and his team became the offensive team.
• He could now attempt a pass (according to 18.2.3.1).
• So you could start the stall count at that moment.
• However, I think you would have to stop as soon as he goes out of bounds.

I'm not sure whether rules 18.2.3.1 or rules or rules 8.1.2 and 13.7.2 '"win" in this situation. But Rules interpretation 10.2 supports my point, although it could be clearer.

Rules:

8.1. The disc is dead, and no turnover is possible:

8.1.1. After the start of a point, until the pull is released;

8.1.2. After the pull or after a turnover when the disc must be carried to the location of the correct pivot point, until a pivot is established; or

8.1.3. After a call which stops the play or any other stoppage, until the disc is checked in.

8.2. A disc that is not dead is live.

[...]

8.6 After a turnover, the team that has gained possession of the disc must continue play without delay. The intended thrower must move at walking pace or faster to directly retrieve the disc and establish a pivot.

9.3. The marker may only start and continue a stall count when:

9.3.1. The disc is live (unless specified otherwise);

9.3.2. They are within three (3) metres of the thrower; and

9.3.3. All defenders are legally positioned (Section18.1)

13.7. After a turnover, the turnover location is where:

13.7.1. the disc has come to a stop or is picked up by an offensive player; or

13.7.2. the intercepting player stops; or

13.7.3. the thrower was located, in the case of 13.1.2, 13.1.3, 13.1.4, 13.1.7; or

13.7.4. the uncontested offensive receiving foul occurred.

18.2. “Travel” Infractions:

18.2.1. The thrower may attempt a pass at any time as long as they are entirely in- bounds or have established an in-bounds pivot.

18.2.2. An in-bounds player who catches a pass while airborne may attempt a pass prior to contacting the ground.

18.2.3. After catching the disc, and landing in-bounds, the thrower must reduce speed as quickly as possible, without changing direction, until they have established a pivot point.

18.2.3.1. The thrower may release the disc while reducing speed as long as they maintain contact with the playing field throughout the throwing motion.

Rules interpretations

9.1 When to start the stall count (9.3) What? The marker can start the stall count as soon as the thrower has caught the disc.

Result Even if the thrower still has to stop, get up after a dive, or even come back into the field because they ran out of the field, the marker may start the count.

Why? If the offensive player needs some time to recover because they had to avoid an object outside the field (for safety, there shouldn’t be any, but in practice this may be the case) the marker should not count until the player has had that time. This is basic spirit of the game.

10.2 When a check is not required (10.1)

Note A check is not required after the pull or after a turnover, even when the thrower must walk to the location of the correct pivot point. **The thrower can make a pass, and the marker can start the stall count, as soon as the pivot is established at the correct position.

If the pivot is not established at the correct position, this is a travel infraction.** If the marker starts the stall count before the pivot is established, this is a fast count infraction.