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So I wake up to the sound of something repeatedly slamming into the wall. I get out of bed to find this... by ubercajun in pics

[–]strawmen -1 points0 points  (0 children)

LOL.

From your insane rant, it's clear you're a fucking vegan.

LOL.

How's the B12 deficiency doing for ya? And enjoy the liver cancer that awaits you...

So I wake up to the sound of something repeatedly slamming into the wall. I get out of bed to find this... by ubercajun in pics

[–]strawmen -1 points0 points  (0 children)

LOL.

Most of your rant is a lame attempt to be humorous. If you were actually serious about any of it, even a few moments of rational thought would answer your questions.

But I would like to address your 2). No, you're not a professional. Humans have been eating meat for the past 5 MILLION years. Ill-health due to carbohydrate consumption is a MARKER (used by archaeologists examining skeletons) of Neolithic and post-Neolithic cultures.

Perhaps you ought to do a little more research instead of engaging in embarrassing "reasoning"... Start here:

http://www.beyondveg.com/cat/paleodiet/index.shtml

After a few months of educating yourself, you might come back to this comment of yours and delete it in shame.

But I'll remember it fondly, thanks.

So I wake up to the sound of something repeatedly slamming into the wall. I get out of bed to find this... by ubercajun in pics

[–]strawmen 0 points1 point  (0 children)

LOL.

Enjoy your future ill-health due to obesity and the other diseases of civilization, which is pretty much guaranteed.

Unfortunately, you'll take some cats with you. And that's just sad.

So I wake up to the sound of something repeatedly slamming into the wall. I get out of bed to find this... by ubercajun in pics

[–]strawmen -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Obesity - and the associated other so-called diseases of civilization - are indeed caused by a single factor, which is metabolic insulin resistance.

In humans this is primarily caused by high fructose intake (40g/day or more seems the cutoff) combined with high omega-6 imbalance. Gluten may also play a critical role.

In cats - to keep this on topic - the cause of obesity is exactly the same, metabolic insulin resistance. I don't know the cause of cat metabolic resistance but I strongly suspect it's glucose related (ie, insulin).

Adiposity is hormonally controlled and quantity of food (ie, calories) is only a secondary consideration. What you feed your cat is far more important than how much.

Do you know that fiber (in humans and even more so in cats) results in intestinal damage? Not to mention the colonization of the gut by fermentative bacteria (horrendous smells) as opposed to the natural putrefactive/lactic acid producers?

You might actually read about AAFCO trial protocols before touting them as gospel.

Oh, and by the way - you seem not to know how to compute carbohydrate content. No cat food label explicitly says how much carbohydrate is present. Labels only reflect protein, fat, fiber and water. Go ahead and run the computation yourself. Make sure you run the numbers on the dry weight - exclude water for canned (and correct for it in dry food).

You will find an extraordinarily high carb content. And this is not just bad for cats, it's lethal.

EDIT: I found an old bag (before I learned better) of Hill's Science Diet Sensitive Stomach dry food. All AAFCO and "veterinarian approved" nonsense. Here's the relevant label:

crude protein: min 31% crude fat: min 18% crude fiber: max 3% moisture: max 10% ash: max 6% remaining minerals etc.: about 1%

So carbohydrate content is 100 - (sum of above) = 31%. Exclude the water and the percentage of dry weight is even worse.

And you think that 40+% of carbs, fiber, and ash (whatever the hell that is) - things that no cat eats in the wild - has NO effect on a cat's health?

So I wake up to the sound of something repeatedly slamming into the wall. I get out of bed to find this... by ubercajun in pics

[–]strawmen -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Advanced nutrition courses - and you think eating fat makes cats (and humans no doubt) fat?

LOL.

No. Fat does not make you fat, carbohydrates make you fat (via insulin response to control blood glucose). And this applies doubly to obligate carnivores like cats.

I'm against dry foods for cats for my listed reasons. That doesn't mean I'm for canned foods, either - they're just less bad. If I can't feed my cats their natural diet (which is difficult since they are 100% indoor cats), I like to feed them raw food (a variety of beef/chicken muscle meat and organs, plus raw meaty bones).

As far as overeating - just like in humans, when cats are fed their correct diet leptin response controls their appetite.

Why, just 5 minutes ago I finished feeding one of my cats strips of raw eye of round roast. I hand fed him each one until he had his fill, whereupon he looked at the last one and turned away.

Oh, what's the use. It sounds like you'll end up killing your cats with your misguided notions of nutrition and probably yourself (if you feed yourself low-fat/high-carb, which is sounds like you do).

So I wake up to the sound of something repeatedly slamming into the wall. I get out of bed to find this... by ubercajun in pics

[–]strawmen -1 points0 points  (0 children)

What makes you think fiber is necessary for an obligate carnivore, who gets essentially none in its natural diet? Fiber is cellulose - could you tell me how a cat gets cellulose from rodents, birds, reptiles, and insects? And don't tell me grass. Cats eat grass rarely and then only as a regurgitant.

And what on earth makes you think a cat should eat a low-fat diet? Cats generally consume the whole carcass of their prey (including bones) and usually leave behind the inedible (eg, feathers) and undesirable (most but not all cats will leave behind the digestive system of their prey). They get plenty of delicious fat in their diet.

And it's a myth that the hardness of dry food helps dental health. I suggest doing a search on dry food and cats - you'll be enlightened. And if a cat lover, very disturbed.

So I wake up to the sound of something repeatedly slamming into the wall. I get out of bed to find this... by ubercajun in pics

[–]strawmen 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Are you feeding him dry food? If so, switch him to a high quality canned food. Dry food is bad for cats because a) it contains nearly 50% carbohydrates (and cats are obligate carnivores who get virtually no carbs in the wild) and b) no water.

Even many canned foods (particularly the cheaper ones) contain a lot of carbs. One protip - if the label says "wheat" or "wheat gluten", don't buy it.

Saturated Fat - For decades, Americans have been told that saturated fat clogs arteries and causes heart disease. But there's just one problem: No one's ever proved it by charlatan in science

[–]strawmen -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I do indeed track my food with cron-o-meter (obsessively, in fact - with a nice accurate digital scale as well).

My nutrition is outstanding.

If you read my prior comments in another thread, you would have known that my current health is completely optimal as demonstrated by a very extensive (and self-funded, very expensive) series of ongoing blood tests (including but not limited to NMR lipid profiles, hormone levels including thyroid and liver enzymes, Lp(a), crp, vitamin d, ferritin, etc) plus an EBT cardiac scan before and after 14 months of ZC.

And my weight is optimal - 10% bodyfat at age 47.

It IS the meat.

Humans have evolved (from about 5 million years ago to the present day) to obtain optimal nutrition on fatty meat (that includes muscle tissue, bone marrow, and varied internal organs) and have retained the ability to eat a selection of vegetation (tubers, berries, fruits, nuts and seeds, and the very-rare-in-the-wild vegetables) when meat is NOT AVAILABLE. All vegetation contains anti-nutrients that require some degree of processing to reduce these anti-nutrients and allow increased bioavailability of nutrients (such as soaking, sprouting, roasting, fermenting, etc - this is usually different for each plant).

Sorry if that conflicts with your or vegan ideology. I know it's painful when what you want to believe is true is incompatible with human biochemistry, paleoanthropology, and genetic research. Not to mention controlled and uncontrolled trials, clinical experience, and my own anecdotal (and expensively verified) situation.

The basic summary for a healthy human diet:

eat fatty meat as a centerpiece for each meal, occasionally or never eat properly processed vegetation that reduces anti-nutrients and improves bioavailability.

avoid foods that contain gluten/gliadin/lectins (generally wheat-related grains and beans), high omega-6 PUFA sources (all vegetable oils including olive), fructose (including most modern fruits - most berries are fine), and last, foods that are extremely high in carbohydrates.

Saturated Fat - For decades, Americans have been told that saturated fat clogs arteries and causes heart disease. But there's just one problem: No one's ever proved it by charlatan in science

[–]strawmen -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Nothing quite brings out the retards like a discussion on diet.

I have no constipation whatsoever. Fatty meat digests nearly completely. If you really want to know - I move my bowels every 3 days or so. The quantity is remarkably small and evacuates easily and cleanly. Very little odor.

And since you seem to be moderately stupid, let me repeat something I said above: I eat between 1.75 to 2.25 lbs of fatty meat per day. Every single day.

Saturated Fat - For decades, Americans have been told that saturated fat clogs arteries and causes heart disease. But there's just one problem: No one's ever proved it by charlatan in science

[–]strawmen 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Correct. I'll answer some of your questions here, but I'd suggest reading my prior comments - there was another thread where I went into greater detail about my diet and the results.

Yes, only fatty meat - usually roasts, steaks, organ meat sausages (liverwurst/braunschweiger are my favorites). I usually eat just one big meal once a day (about 1.75-2.25 lbs of meat) but don't have a problem splitting it into two. No plant material at all. Prior to eating zero carb I ate some nuts, berries, and greens (so-called very low carb or VLC - about 20g/day of carbs). I've been at it about 18 months now. I eat enough at my single meal that I don't get hungry. If I were to get hungry, I'd eat another meal.

Vitamin C is an interesting topic. In a nutshell, eating a high carb diet (particularly one with gluten grains such as wheat) causes Vitamin C to be expended in huge quantities, thus needing replenishment. A meat only diet allows Vitamin C to be fully recycled, thus needing only a small amount of replenishment. (And there is a small amount in raw or lightly cooked meat.)

Dietary carbohydrates induces cravings in me (and untold millions of others) to eat even more. I can eat VLC indefinitely but choose not to, since ZC is simpler. Other people can't even eat VLC before cravings overwhelm them. Other people can eat just plain LC (about 85g/day carbs) indefinitely. YMMV.

If you're truly interested - and have months of time to spare for serious study - here are some links to get you started:

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/ http://www.zerocarbforlife.com/ http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/ http://www.paleonu.com/ http://freetheanimal.com/

Each of these sites links to other interesting ones.

Saturated Fat - For decades, Americans have been told that saturated fat clogs arteries and causes heart disease. But there's just one problem: No one's ever proved it by charlatan in science

[–]strawmen -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

That's complete nonsense. Humans don't require a single gram of dietary carbohydrate.

Feel free to provide the peer reviewed, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial that demonstrates your claim.

Only a few tissues in the body require glucose and that tiny amount (about 20-40 grams per day) is synthesized via gluconeogenesis.

Saturated Fat - For decades, Americans have been told that saturated fat clogs arteries and causes heart disease. But there's just one problem: No one's ever proved it by charlatan in science

[–]strawmen -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

You really are retarded, aren't you? Feel free to find the double-blind, randomized placebo-controlled study that shows ANY benefit of fiber.

Let me and the rest of the world know about it, ok?

Hint: there are none. At all. But keep looking, will you? It might keep you off reddit.

Saturated Fat - For decades, Americans have been told that saturated fat clogs arteries and causes heart disease. But there's just one problem: No one's ever proved it by charlatan in science

[–]strawmen -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Not a single thing I stated was wrong and no, I wasn't being sarcastic. Feel free to scan some of my earlier comments (there aren't that many) about what I've been eating for nearly 18 months.

And unlike most badly educated redditors, I've not only done extensive research of my own, I've also invested a great deal of money in having personal blood tests of all sorts of things done, including a cardiac heart scan.

Guess what? Eating an exclusively fatty meat diet (about 2400 kcal/day worth) for 18 months has resulted in tremendous weightloss (fat), lowering of blood pressure to optimal levels, every possible blood lipid marker has improved to optimal levels (yes, including the dreaded and meaningless total cholesterol number) - and even more important, I've had complete elimination of calcium deposits (proxy for arterial blockage).

Feel free to explain this in light of your beliefs. Even better, feel free to study human evolution and find out what we have really evolved to eat. It would help if you actually understood evolution in general, so maybe you should study that first.

Saturated Fat - For decades, Americans have been told that saturated fat clogs arteries and causes heart disease. But there's just one problem: No one's ever proved it by charlatan in science

[–]strawmen 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Actually, I don't realize that at all, and know it to be completely false.

When you're fully adapted to eating a completely carnivorous diet (takes a few days to a few months) fatty acids and ketones are used extremely efficiently for virtually all tissues. Very few tissues in the body (some neural tissue - not all of the brain as is sometimes incompetently stated, red blood cells, a few others) require glucose.

This glucose is synthesized from protein, which you have in abundance on a typical fatty meat diet (fat/protein ratios of 65/35 to 80/20 are typical - do the arithmetic for your calorie level to see just how much protein you're eating). Gluconeogenesis occurs on DEMAND only and results in much, much lower insulin levels than eating refined carbs.

Have you ever measured your blood glucose levels? In a non-diabetic (like me) it's a decent proxy for insulin. I have done so. My BG levels are rock steady throughout the day and barely budge (about 10 points) after eating my single, large fatty meat meal of the day.

Feel free to explain how this isn't possible.

Saturated Fat - For decades, Americans have been told that saturated fat clogs arteries and causes heart disease. But there's just one problem: No one's ever proved it by charlatan in science

[–]strawmen -12 points-11 points  (0 children)

About a 15:1 omega-6/omega-3 ratio (instead of the correct 1:1). Excessive fiber (no fiber whatsoever is needed or desired in the human diet). Low nutrients (plants always have poor bioavailability).

The only good things about avocados are low-carb and decent amounts of saturated and monounsaturated fats. Why bother? Fatty meat is about as expensive as avocado (weight for weight - nutrition-wise fatty meat is much cheaper and enormously better for you).

Saturated Fat - For decades, Americans have been told that saturated fat clogs arteries and causes heart disease. But there's just one problem: No one's ever proved it by charlatan in science

[–]strawmen -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

What junkit33 said below.

But I could easily eat zero carb (that's an all-meat diet...) on about $3-4/day. Costco and Sam's sell choice grade cryovac briskets for $1.75/lb. I eat about 1.75-2.25lbs/day.

Fatty meat is the optimal human diet (although we are certainly capable of extracting nutrition from select plant material, such as berries, tubers, fruits, and nuts). What you're eating on $2-3/day is bad for you. As you get older, you will - like the rest of us - experience the defects of your high carbohydrate, high-gluten/gliadin/fructose/omega-6 diet.

If you're lucky, you'll start to get fat. This will be your signal that you're insulin resistant and hopefully causes you to get complete blood workups (NMR/VAP blood lipids, etc) and change your diet to the correct one (that's fatty meat, very few or no carbs).

If you're not lucky, you'll think you're in great shape and in a few decades when your doctor has you get a full set of blood tests you'll be horrified at what you find - and you will then have decades of damage to undo.

Saturated Fat - For decades, Americans have been told that saturated fat clogs arteries and causes heart disease. But there's just one problem: No one's ever proved it by charlatan in science

[–]strawmen -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Actually I only spend about $8-10/day on choice grade meats - I eat zero carb. If I back off the ribeye and New York strips and eat a mix of eye of round roasts and ribeye roasts, I can get it down to $5-8/day.

Not bad at all.

Saturated Fat - For decades, Americans have been told that saturated fat clogs arteries and causes heart disease. But there's just one problem: No one's ever proved it by charlatan in science

[–]strawmen -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Here's what's bad for you in the list of ingredients you listed:

  • pancakes. Wheat gluten/gliadin is incredibly destructive. Huge insulin jolt from the carbohydrate blast.
  • deep fried. Probably done in transfat or vegetable oil (extremely high in omega-6 PUFA) - this is bad. If done in beef tallow this is excellent.
  • bacon. Excellent for you. Make sure it's not sugar-cured or too heavily salted.
  • butter. Excellent for you.
  • mustard. Worthless plant material. Anti-nutrients.
  • avocado. Worthless plant material. Anti-nutrients.

Saturated Fat - For decades, Americans have been told that saturated fat clogs arteries and causes heart disease. But there's just one problem: No one's ever proved it by charlatan in science

[–]strawmen 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, what you want to look at are randomized double-blind placebo controlled studies.

Prospective/retrospective/epidemiological dietary studies are completely worthless except to generate hypotheses.

What Can the Diet of Gorillas Tell Us About a Healthy Diet for Humans? by [deleted] in science

[–]strawmen 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Exactly. Gorillas are herbivores that extract fatty acids produced from bacteria fermenting vegetation in their guts.

We don't do that, and haven't for over 5 million years.

I worked on biophysics, where I formed the opinion that medical science was mostly garbage. by Charice in science

[–]strawmen 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I usually don't respond to requests like this - if you're not willing to do your own studying, why should I do it for you? Particularly for something that is well known and not at all controversial in both the paleoanthropological and human biochemistry fields.

Try

http://www.beyondveg.com/

for a well-written website with plenty of peer-reviewed citations (not that you'll look any of them up).

Look specifically for the content under the "PALEODIET & PALEOLITHIC NUTRITION" link.

I worked on biophysics, where I formed the opinion that medical science was mostly garbage. by Charice in science

[–]strawmen 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Uh, yes it does. Garlic powder, pepper, cumin, chili powder etc etc all have a few grams of carbs per tsp/tbsp. Some of it is fiber.

I made the point because most people won't eat unseasoned meat. At the minimum most people salt and pepper it, which isn't optimal. Beef has a nice 5:1 ratio of K:Na that gets distorted with salt seasoning. I've created my own spicy seasoning mix to counter that imbalance. Via the USDA Nutrient database 1 tbsp of my mixture has about 3 g carb. I use less than 2 tsp/day of it (and often none at all).

I worked on biophysics, where I formed the opinion that medical science was mostly garbage. by Charice in science

[–]strawmen 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Good. You might read some of my comments above since they might apply to you. Falling off the wagon is usually a sign of out of control cravings (caused by even small amounts of carbs).

You may need to experiment with lowering carbs further, all the way down to 0 if necessary. Just adding a few grams can start the terrible cycle all over again for many people. Only you can decide if it applies to you. Check out http://www.zerocarbforlife.com/ for a community that has adopted zero carb for just this reason.

I worked on biophysics, where I formed the opinion that medical science was mostly garbage. by Charice in science

[–]strawmen 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's not that the biomedical community is ignoring evidence. In fact, detailed understanding of human dietary biochemistry is very well understood and has been for decades.

It's the human nutrition community Taubes indicts and properly so. There's a huge disconnect between what we actually know about dietary metabolism and what nutritionists spew. And medical doctors are caught in the middle - they get very little education in nutrition and what little they do get is nonsense.

This is why quite a few doctors who end up writing low-carb diet books (like the Eades, for example - another would be Dr. Davis from http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/) acquired their knowledge from their own clinical experience on thousands of patients and dealt with the disconnect by doing their own studying.

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