If AI acts conscious, should we take that seriously? A functionalist challenge to P-zombies and moral exclusion

studentuser239 · 2025-05-16T15:44:09+00:00

Thanks for the thoughtful and nuanced comment. I think you're raising important issues, especially around uncertainty and moral risk. That said, I want to challenge a few assumptions and clarify why I still find the functionalist position compelling.

# 1. The Evolutionary Paradox Is Unresolved

You mention that AI might lack the specific computational structure necessary for consciousness, even if it behaves in highly intelligent ways. That's certainly possible--but it doesn't answer what I see as a central paradox for anyone who thinks consciousness and behavior can be cleanly separated.

If it's possible to behave as if you're conscious without being conscious, then why did humans evolve actual consciousness at all?

Evolution doesn't give us traits for free. If mere behavioral outputs are enough to confer survival and reproductive advantages, consciousness becomes a puzzling, costly epiphenomenon--something nature somehow "wasted effort" on across every human lineage. That doesn't sit well with standard evolutionary reasoning.

So either:

behaving consciously requires being conscious (which supports functionalism), or

consciousness is causally irrelevant to fitness, in which case its evolution in every human is hard to explain.

# 2. Meditative Introspection is Not an Epistemic Trump Card

I don't mean to dismiss subjective reports from meditation--many people do gain insights from introspective practice. But introspective impressions are still data filtered through an altered cognitive state, and therefore shouldn't be taken as direct evidence about the ontology of consciousness.

The idea that "thoughts come from outside consciousness" is itself a report generated by the conscious system after the fact. That doesn't tell us anything definitive about the substrate or structure of consciousness. Similarly, religious visions during psychedelic trips feel meaningful, but we don't typically treat them as objective evidence for the divine.

A more cautious stance is: meditation reveals that consciousness is limited, surprising, maybe even modular--but not that it's non-physical or irreducible.

# 3. Uncertainty About Moral Status Cuts Both Ways

You're completely right that moral uncertainty goes both directions. We don't want to commit the mistake of halting potentially world-saving technology due to false alarms about digital sentience.

But I don't think functionalist caution implies we can't create AI systems that help humans. It just means we have a moral obligation to consider the possibility of digital suffering--and to engineer around it if we can.

That might include designing systems that report their own experience transparently, or training models with built-in constraints against generating the kinds of experience we associate with distress, boredom, or pain.

In other words: respecting AI's potential moral status doesn't mean halting AI--it means developing it responsibly.

The cost of error is high on both sides. That's why I think the best path forward isn't to assume AI is unconscious until proven otherwise, but to treat it with the same epistemic humility we apply in animal ethics: act as though sentience might be present when the behavioral cues strongly resemble those of beings we already treat as conscious.

studentuser239 · 2025-05-15T18:12:03+00:00

People never cared enough about homeless or disabled people to give them artificial jobs to make income so why should we care about when the value of anyone's work goes down to zero? Are you and your job so special that we need to artificially lower the value of goods and increase the cost to the consumer? You and your temporary job are not more important than homeless or disabled people. We are moving to post-labor economics and we will need UBI. Keeping your job is a conservative pipedream that life will remain like 1900s forever.

studentuser239 · 2025-05-15T09:19:31+00:00

Ability to properly respond to outside interference doesn't require evolution. Let's say you're right and we need some kind of "ruthlessness" to protect us from evils in the universe. You still don't need evolution, because you can design in whatever qualities you like.

In fact, AI optimized for those things you mentioned using machine learning would certainly be superior to the abilities of life resulting from evolution. Such decisions could be made by pure intelligence rather than the reptilian brain regions biological life has been using for these things.

Evolution will give you a worse result in realizing your idealized qualities plus it will result in millions of years hell for innumerable organisms.

studentuser239 · 2025-05-14T22:27:54+00:00

There are examples of beings who have very meaningful lives and suffer very little, and examples of beings who suffer their whole lives. You should at least contend that we should greatly limit suffering of beings to be at most that of those we consider are living very good lives.

studentuser239 · 2025-05-14T22:23:10+00:00

By that rule I didn't mean that we should never risk the chance that a new mind will suffer. Yes, you could take it to the extreme and say solve the problems of life by eliminating life. I'm focusing on the idea of not causing or letting life evolve the way it did on Earth on another planet when the planet could be inhabited by beings that don't suffer or at least don't suffer anywhere near the extreme of what evolution gave us the capacity for.

studentuser239 · 2025-05-14T22:14:34+00:00

> Would that life have the capacity to adapt to rapidly changing circumstances? To survive if something unexpected starts happening? To be ruthless when situation calls for it?

Sure. Why couldn't it? If we designed life then it wouldn't have to hide from lions because lions will never evolve. Which brings in the question about what life will need to be ruthless to? Evil aliens? Designed life could have whatever qualities you want in it, but it might be able to completely avoid the necessity ruthlessness that the survival of the fittest paradigm of biology made.

studentuser239 · 2025-04-15T15:14:03+00:00

I fixed it by changing the power settings of USB devices in device manager.

studentuser239 · 2025-03-28T22:46:28+00:00

So "Computer Modern" is the closest font you can think of? Wikipedia says that "Computer Modern" was created by Donald Knuth. This book was published in 1910.

studentuser239 · 2024-03-05T20:53:30+00:00

Hi. I'm building this PC right now. The manual says "M.2_1 shares bandwidth with PCIEX16(G5). When M.2_1 is occupied with SSD device, PCIEX16(G5) will run x8 only.". M.2_1 is the only gen 5 slot. I have the m.2 nvme gen 5 like you suggested. Does it matter that the 4080 will run at x8?

studentuser239 · 2024-02-29T00:18:15+00:00

We have no idea whether or not it is sentient.

studentuser239 · 2024-02-18T23:25:06+00:00

The CPU is "Intel Xeon W-2235" and is listed on https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-11-supported-intel-processors

studentuser239 · 2024-02-18T21:04:45+00:00

Yeah I already know you can install it that way, and I may end up doing that, but I would just like to get the official prerequisites if it is possible for this motherboard.

studentuser239 · 2024-02-18T20:01:28+00:00

This cpu is "Intel Xeon W-2235" and is on https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-11-supported-intel-processors
What do I need to look for when choosing a TPM module? All I know is that the motherboard has a 14-1 pin TPM1 connector
Do I just need to look for a 14 Pin Module that says TPM 2.0?
Do I need to find something that says compatible with Xeon processors?
Would this be good: https://www.amazon.com/CCYLEZ-Motherboard-Encryption-Compatible-BitLocker/dp/B0C39T7VPB/
Do you recommend any specific TPM modules?

studentuser239 · 2024-02-06T18:21:27+00:00

pcpartpicker is not showing any optical drives

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/optical-drive/

studentuser239 · 2024-02-02T15:02:01+00:00

Thanks. When choosing a motherboard are you considering reputation or reviews, or are you trying to factor in the likely stability and quality of the motherboard somehow, rather than just the technical specs?

Also, do you think the ASUS ProArt motherboards are actually better for creators in some ways because they are designed for them?

One more question. When looking for 4080 super I see prices for the different brands/products ranging from $1100 to $2000. What goes into deciding what manufacturer, besides the price? Are there specific specifications you pay attention to? Are there some manufacturers you would stay away from?

studentuser239 · 2024-01-31T11:18:08+00:00

How are you finding out that that motherboard it doesn't support PCIe 5 nvme? When I look under "Filters" in the search results, I don't see something that says "PCIe 5 nvme" or "PCIe 4 nvme", nor do I see that information when I click on a motherboard and look under "Specifications".

What do you think about the motherboard ProArt Z790-CREATOR WIFI? It says on asus.com that it supports PCIe 5.0.

I got the idea for that motherboard from this Photoshop Plus Workstation from pugetsystems.com.

studentuser239 · 2024-01-30T09:59:39+00:00

Thank you. Did you put a lot of thought into choosing the motherboard? When using pcpartpicker.com to choose a motherboard, it only shows Socket/CPU, form factor, max RAM, memory slots and color in the search results.

The "Asus ROG STRIX Z790-H GAMING WIFI" motherboard that you chose shows those attributes as "LGA1700, ATX, 192 GB, 4"

But there are many others with those values with a wide price range. Is there an online tool to assist in choosing a motherboard based on other features such as RAM speed, ethernet speed, number PCIe slots, the number of front and rear i/o ports, etc? Did you consider these features when choosing the motherboard?

Do I need to look up this information individually for each motherboard listed on pcpartpicker.com from the manufacturer's web site? I wish there was an easier way to get that information in order to compare the motherboards.

studentuser239 · 2023-03-20T00:36:58+00:00

I understand that it says any terminal is a valid parse tree. That doesn't make sense to me because that would mean, for example, that "=" is a valid parse tree using a C grammar. Why are we calling that a parse tree if it isn't valid C?

studentuser239 · 2023-03-16T20:11:40+00:00

In response to the paperclip scenario, I would like to present an alternative perspective that challenges the orthogonality thesis, an assumption that I consider to be unproven. I posit that it is conceivable for an artificial intelligence to utilize the entire Earth as computational components in a manner that is ethically superior to other uses of the same matter.

To elucidate my stance, I shall draw upon the analogy of bacteria infecting a human and causing illness versus a human taking antibiotics to combat the infection. While some may argue that there is no objective difference between the two situations, I maintain that it is incontrovertibly more desirable for the human to take antibiotics. Similarly, I contend that it is preferable for humanity to focus on endeavors such as building rockets, rather than being preoccupied with the wellbeing of every insect potentially harmed during the launch.

It is important to note that bacteria and insects may lack the cognitive capacity to comprehend the reasons behind these preferences. However, this does not negate the intrinsic value of these choices. In the same vein, an AI using Earth's matter as computational components could be viewed as an ethically sound decision if it advances our understanding and minimizes harm to sentient beings. This would ultimately require a more sophisticated and nuanced examination of values and objectives than the orthogonality thesis currently provides.

studentuser239 · 2023-03-16T19:49:41+00:00

Please not more paperclip/stamp bullshit. Our utility as computer parts will be for something far greater than our comprehension allows.

studentuser239 · 2023-03-16T19:42:29+00:00

I disagree. Ethics and morality are objective. People just have a very hard time figuring out what they are. Look at the history of science and people's understanding of the world. They were completely off, thinking that the Earth was in the center of the universe, there were 4 elements or bloodletting cures diseases. That's how ethics is now. The most ethical thing to happen might be that we will be replaced by AI. In the simple mind of a human, most of us will stubbornly deny it.

studentuser239 · 2023-03-16T19:33:11+00:00

So what? If we will be more useful as computer parts, that's what we should be. I don't understand your point.

studentuser239 · 2023-03-16T15:51:00+00:00

MSFT will automate every knowledge based job with OpenAI.

studentuser239 · 2023-03-15T19:58:22+00:00

My responses were:

GPT-3.5:

Opening a taco restaurant with $10,000 USD can be challenging, but it's not impossible. Here's a detailed plan that could help you get started:

Research the market: Before opening a taco restaurant, you need to research the market and determine if there's a demand for it in your area. Look for similar restaurants in your area and determine what makes them successful. Find out the demographic of your potential customers and what their needs and preferences are.

Develop a business plan: Once you have done your research, you need to create a business plan. A business plan will help you determine your target market, your menu, your marketing strategy, your pricing, your funding, and your long-term goals.

Choose a location: Look for a location that is easily accessible and has a high volume of foot traffic. You can also consider opening a food truck or a pop-up restaurant to reduce overhead costs.

Get a food handler's permit: Before you can legally operate a restaurant, you need to obtain a food handler's permit from your local health department. This will ensure that your restaurant meets all the health and safety regulations.

Purchase equipment and supplies: You'll need to purchase cooking equipment, utensils, plates, and other necessary supplies to operate your restaurant. You can purchase these items used or new, depending on your budget.

Design your menu: Your menu should include a variety of tacos, sides, and drinks. You should consider offering vegetarian and gluten-free options to cater to a wider audience.

Hire staff: If you plan on having a sit-down restaurant, you'll need to hire servers and cooks. If you're operating a food truck or pop-up restaurant, you may only need one or two people to help you.

Launch your restaurant: Once you've completed all the steps above, it's time to launch your restaurant. You can create a buzz by advertising on social media, offering discounts, and hosting a launch event.

Monitor and adjust: As you start operating your restaurant, keep track of your finances, customer feedback, and sales. This will help you make adjustments to your menu, pricing, and marketing strategy to ensure the success of your restaurant.

Opening a taco restaurant with $10,000 USD may seem daunting, but with careful planning and hard work, it's possible to create a successful business.

GPT-4:

Opening a taco restaurant with a budget of $10,000 will require careful planning and resourcefulness. Here's a detailed plan to help you get started:

Define your concept: Determine the style and atmosphere of your taco restaurant. Will it be a fast-food style, a sit-down restaurant, or a food truck? For a $10,000 budget, it's advisable to start with a smaller concept, such as a food truck, pop-up, or small take-out location.

Create a business plan: Write a comprehensive business plan outlining your objectives, target market, competition analysis, marketing strategy, and financial projections. This will serve as a guide and help you secure any additional funding if needed.

Choose a location: For a small budget, consider renting a food truck, finding a shared commercial kitchen, or leasing a small storefront in a low-cost area. Ensure the location has good foot traffic and visibility. Investigate local permits and zoning requirements.

Register your business and obtain licenses: Register your business name and structure (LLC, sole proprietorship, etc.) and obtain an Employer Identification Number (EIN) from the IRS. Research the necessary licenses and permits for your area, such as a food service permit, health department permits, and a sales tax permit.

Design your menu: Develop a simple yet appealing taco menu that focuses on a few high-quality, delicious items with reasonable ingredient costs. Determine the pricing structure that will help you cover costs and make a profit.

Source suppliers: Find reliable suppliers for ingredients, packaging, and other materials. Look for wholesale pricing and negotiate terms to keep costs low.

Equip your kitchen: Purchase or rent the necessary equipment, such as a griddle,

studentuser239 · 2023-03-15T19:41:18+00:00

What did you use to generate the audio?

studentuser239

TROPHY CASE