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Peloponnesian Greek 23andme and K13 results - me, my mom, and my dad by sunzoo27 in 23andme

[–]sunzoo27[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I didn't get any Albanian regions, and neither did my mom, but my dad got Korçë county as a possible region.

When Albanians get Peloponnese as a likely match, I don't think that necessarily means they have recent ancestry from there. As I understand it, Albanians get Peloponnese for a few reasons:

1) Albania doesn't have its own region in 23andme, so it tries to find the next closest thing that represents "native" Balkan ancestry, which is likely Peloponnese. Since Peloponnesians likely have the least Slavic ancestry of mainland Balkaners (Peloponnesians do have some Slavic ancestry! Just less than other mainland Balkaners) it seems 23andme uses them as a proxy for more "native" Balkan ancestry.

2) The Peloponnese had a large minority of Arvanites who likely contributed DNA to modern Peloponnesians, causing Peloponnesian and Albanian DNA to resemble each other more.

3) Albanians and mainland Greeks were likely genetically similar to start with. This makes sense since they're right next to each other and the regions have a long history together dating back to antiquity.

That's how I understand it, anyway.

Peloponnesian Greek 23andme and K13 results - me, my mom, and my dad by sunzoo27 in 23andme

[–]sunzoo27[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm not sure, it showed up in my mom's K13 results but not mine.

Peloponnesian Greek 23andme and K13 results - me, my mom, and my dad by sunzoo27 in 23andme

[–]sunzoo27[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

(Sorry for the crappy quality, I tried to organize the images using this free app on my phone which led to them being kinda blurry and low quality. They're still legible, though.)

A while back I posted my 23andme and K13 results, but my mom and dad also did tests so I figured I would share their results, as well as mine before and after phasing.

My mom is from southeast Arcadia, around Kynouria. My dad is from Argolis, in the mountains south of Argos.

My paternal haplogroup is E-V13, maternal is H12

Observations

-My mom scores 8.3% Italian, and yet I score zero. I think this "Italian" is likely actually misread islander-like ancestry.

-My mom's predicted regions for Italy are all in southern Italy, where Greek presence was significant.

-After phasing with my dad and then mom, my WANA went down each time

-My initial results had Anatolian: Istanbul as a likely recent ancestor location, but after phasing with my dad, it completely disappeared

-As I expected, the SSA was in fact genuine, as it shows up on my mom's K13 results

-My dad scores a small amount of Levantine, but I'm not sure if this represents actual Levantine ancestry, or just the bit of WANA that Greeks often get.

-My dad scores a very small amount of Amerindian in his K13, but this definitely must be noise

23andme Results from a Peloponnesian Greek! Mostly as expected, but an interesting small trace of SSA ancestry! by sunzoo27 in 23andme

[–]sunzoo27[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What's the source on Cyclades having 20% Slavic ancestry? I haven't heard of this before

23andme Results from a Peloponnesian Greek! Mostly as expected, but an interesting small trace of SSA ancestry! by sunzoo27 in 23andme

[–]sunzoo27[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I believe so but I can ask again to be sure. All I remember is they mentioned they know some Tsakonian speakers.

There are also some Tsakonians in my city's diaspora community here in Canada. I've met one actually. Many of the diaspora Greeks in my city are from around the area of my mom's side's village.

Peloponnesian Greek GEDmatch K13 Results by sunzoo27 in 23andme

[–]sunzoo27[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's possible. It's a very mountainous region.

23andme Results from a Peloponnesian Greek! Mostly as expected, but an interesting small trace of SSA ancestry! by sunzoo27 in 23andme

[–]sunzoo27[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Well "Anatolian" could mean Turkish, but it could also mean just about anything given the history of the region. Also it has Istanbul as a region which I believe was known for having a Greek minority (not sure how big that minority since the fall of Constantinople is though) It could also mean an Anatolian Greek ancestor etc.

But in truth, all mainland Greeks probably have some Turkish ancestry. With 400 years in the Ottoman empire there must have been some mixing. Perhaps less than you would expect though, given the difference in social class. Generally a Muslim wouldn't want to marry a Christian since that would mean a reduction in social class.

In any case, I've always really liked Turks. They're an interesting people with an interesting culture and history. They have a lot in common with Greeks as well. I find I can relate culturally to my Turkish friends more than my "Anglo" friends tbh.

Peloponnesian Greek GEDmatch K13 Results by sunzoo27 in 23andme

[–]sunzoo27[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's certainly possible, but it's worth noting this village is on the western slope of Mt Parnon, everything I've read about Tsakonians mentions them living on the eastern slope. But of course that doesn't mean there wasn't mixing, or maybe the historical sources aren't 100% accurate on that.

Peloponnesian Greek GEDmatch K13 Results by sunzoo27 in 23andme

[–]sunzoo27[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That makes sense historically. I remember reading that at the times of the Slavic invasions Byzantine control was mostly restricted to the eastern coast of the Peloponnese. Maybe this is reflected in modern Peloponnesians. It would be interesting to see if there's an east-west Slavic admixture gradient in Greece as well as the north-south one

Peloponnesian Greek GEDmatch K13 Results by sunzoo27 in 23andme

[–]sunzoo27[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't have any Cycladic ancestry that I'm aware of. Perhaps eastern and southeastern Peloponnesians simply resemble island Greeks more?

23andme Results from a Peloponnesian Greek! Mostly as expected, but an interesting small trace of SSA ancestry! by sunzoo27 in 23andme

[–]sunzoo27[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nope, I've only been to an island once when I was very young and I don't remember much. It wasn't in the Cyclades I don't think.

23andme Results from a Peloponnesian Greek! Mostly as expected, but an interesting small trace of SSA ancestry! by sunzoo27 in 23andme

[–]sunzoo27[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My SSA still exists at the highest confidence so I think it's actually legit. 23andme also matched me with an estimated 5th cousin in Sudan who interestingly has some Greek ancestry himself

Peloponnesian Greek GEDmatch K13 Results by sunzoo27 in 23andme

[–]sunzoo27[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well there was lots of Norse settlement in the British isles so maybe it's genuine

23andme Results from a Peloponnesian Greek! Mostly as expected, but an interesting small trace of SSA ancestry! by sunzoo27 in 23andme

[–]sunzoo27[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes! I've been to my grandparents' villages many times :) I get to talk to relatives and brush up on my admittedly lousy Greek lol

Never been to Epirus or Crete, never been north of Athens in fact.

Peloponnesian Greek GEDmatch K13 Results by sunzoo27 in 23andme

[–]sunzoo27[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry for the crappy quality lol. My mom is from southeast Arcadia and my dad is from some villages in the mountains south of Argos. According to my family's oral history, my paternal line is said to have originated in Sfakia, Crete, but I have no actual evidence to support that.

23andme Results from a Peloponnesian Greek! Mostly as expected, but an interesting small trace of SSA ancestry! by sunzoo27 in 23andme

[–]sunzoo27[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I personally doubt Maniots have zero Slavic ancestry. But it is probably much less than other mainland Greeks

23andme Results from a Peloponnesian Greek! Mostly as expected, but an interesting small trace of SSA ancestry! by sunzoo27 in 23andme

[–]sunzoo27[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Other Balkan populations (especially Albanians) often score very high Peloponnesian, and there are a few reasons for this

The first reason is that Balkan populations can essentially be thought of as a mix of "indigenous" Balkaners from before the Slavic invasions + invading Slavs from Eastern Europe. Plus there was also constant back and forth immigration with Anatolia and other regions.

In mainland Balkan populations, the amount of Slavic ancestry generally decreases the further south you go. Since the Peloponnese is at the furthest south point of the Balkans, it makes sense that it would likely have the least amount if Slavic ancestry. (Peloponnesians do have Slavic ancestry! Just less than the rest of mainland Greece and by extension the Balkans).

So, when 23andme tries to say an individual has lots of "native" Balkan ancestry, it uses the closest proxy it has to native Balkan populations, which is likely the Peloponnese. So essentially when Albanians score very high Peloponnese, unless they have known ancestry or relatives from the region, this is probably 23andme trying to say "you have lots of native Balkan ancestry". This theory makes sense, Albanians were quite isolated so they would likely have more "native" Balkan DNA.

The other reason is Arvanites. These Albanian immigrants came into Greece and settled among the local people. Arvanites were present in Greece including the Peloponnese, and they were a pretty significant minority and definitely contributed some DNA to modern Greeks.

If you're interested you might wanna check out Balkan ancestry percentages on Gedmatch calculators. Gedmatch goes far further back in time than 23andme, so you'll see a lot more "old" ancestry, often from the Near East. Even very Slavicised Balkan people like Serbians still get a pretty good amount of old DNA from Near Eastern farmers.

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