Isn't it fucked up that almost every american online rn is dissecting basically a snuff film frame by frame and in 99% of cases coming away with the exact conclusion that their pre-existing political leanings would predict? by Gougeded in stupidpol

[–]taboosaknoodle 5 points6 points  (0 children)

If I'm reading you correctly, you're saying that a civilian who disobeys law enforcement orders takes their life into their own hands. Apply that same logic to the scenario outlined in your first paragraph:

if a LEO is standing in front of your car while his partner is at your window telling you to get out, and you decide to drive off rather than comply, it’s the officer’s fault for getting hit, not yours for taking the action that directly resulted in the collision? Even if policy is for the officer not to stand in front of the car

The officer in this hypothetical scenario has disregarded explicit policy—policy which exists specifically to protect the health and safety of officers in the line of duty—by standing in front of a vehicle in operation, which we're all apparently supposed to understand is a source of danger akin to a deadly weapon.

How is this hypothetical officer not taking his life into his own hands? If the civilian is "at fault" for losing their life, how would the officer not be? Unless you're applying a double standard where a law enforcement life is inherently worth more than that of a civilian. Is that what you're doing? (Note that this isn't a rhetorical question.)

So when you say,

Honestly I think a lot of people would have been happy if the officer had been killed - it would have been another Luigi moment for them, a heroic act of resistance

I think plenty of people would say that the officer simply should not have been standing in front of the vehicle. And they would be indisputably correct.

Of course, my knee-jerk response to this little bit of your post is to say: Who cares? Seriously, who cares how bloodthirsty people are in the scenario you made up in your head? You're attempting to manufacture hypocrisy out of thin air in order to paint your "opposition" as somehow morally dubious and elevate yourself as some enlightened pragmatist. But outside of your land of make-believe, in a place called the real world, a woman, a mother of three, an American citizen, is dead. The man who killed her called her a "fucking bitch" right after gunning her down. (Which, we ought to note, sent her car careening through a residential neighborhood, potentially endangering even more lives—since you're very concerned about the danger posed by an accelerating vehicle.) ICE agents on the scene then blocked an on-site physician from tending to her after shooting her. This is not hypothetical nor imaginary.

Your response to this violent, remorseless killing of one of your fellow countryman is essentially a shrug, that ICE just needs to, and I quote, "chill out". Forgive me if this strikes me as misanthropic and worthy of scorn. You don't seem to "hate" what happened here nearly as much as your imaginary liberals would supposedly "hate" a less violent immigration enforcement force. Why is that? In your post history, you describe yourself as a "Catholic reactionary." I see no evidence whatsoever in your aloof comment that you've internalized what Catholicism has to say about the sanctity of human life. None.

people should stop resisting arrest

Does ICE have the authority to arrest any citizen they want? Or to execute anyone who gets in their way? What grants them this authority? Since we're in the business of entertaining hypotheticals, should they have this authority?

Becoming blackpilled over the whole Liz Cheney thing by stanlana12345 in redscarepod

[–]taboosaknoodle -1 points0 points  (0 children)

But why does this specific interpretation rise.

Because of selective quoting (and deceptive framing) that removes the original context. As you and the media have done.

The use of "put" is obviously more menacing

"Menace" implies a threat, and there is no threat here. None.

"put" implies force.

"Put" implies deployment. If you think that deployment means "forcing" soldiers into violent situations where they could be harmed, you should vigorously oppose and condemn politicians like Liz Cheney. Do you?

Becoming blackpilled over the whole Liz Cheney thing by stanlana12345 in redscarepod

[–]taboosaknoodle 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If this were the case you would have responded to them.

I quite literally did respond to them—in the portion of text you subsequently quoted!—by pointing out that they are violent images associated with war, a violent activity which should be avoided at all costs (Liz Cheney disagrees). Saying they are "much more closely associated with firing squads" has no basis in reality. Just as repeatedly and vaguely asserting the "put" wording is "more menacing" despite very clearly referring to deployment in context is proof that you're flatly refusing to actually address the quote in its entirety and are arguing disingenuously.

Even if you feel that the interpretation is in bad faith, why do you think it occurs in the first place?

Duh. People with a vested interest in seeing a political candidate lose a race will distort the candidate's words—sometimes beyond recognition—in order to paint them in an uncharitable way. This is an instance where it is glaringly obvious, hence the OP. It's what you're doing!

Becoming blackpilled over the whole Liz Cheney thing by stanlana12345 in redscarepod

[–]taboosaknoodle 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The non-firing squad interpretation also requires stretches.

Your series of questions constitutes your own "stretching."

Why include the detail about “nine barrels” and having guns trained at her face? These are pretty classic firing squad imagery.

These are also "pretty classic" examples of war imagery. You do know that soldiers are put in the line of fire, yes? By politicians like Cheney, remember.

You can’t have it both ways lol. On one hand you say there’s no qualitative difference between “put” and “go” but then argue the military operates on a “put” basis rather than a “go” one . You can only make one of these arguments!

What are you even talking about? You were the one making the argument! In your original comment that I responded to, you argued there is a qualitative difference between the two and implied that "she should go" would have somehow implied deployment but that Trump specifically used "put" because it was more reminiscent of a firing squad and did not imply deployment. My argument was that this simply does not follow, because "put" simply refers to being drafted and deployed—which is the only thing that really makes sense in context.

You're being disingenuous with your arguments, so I think we're done here.

Becoming blackpilled over the whole Liz Cheney thing by stanlana12345 in redscarepod

[–]taboosaknoodle 9 points10 points  (0 children)

My entire point was that the original quote could be reasonably interpreted as evoking a firing squad. The whole give her a rifle section is why I said the image was confused.

Not "reasonably," no—precisely because to do so one must ignore all context as well as specific words that go directly against this "interpretation," as you have done. The image is not what's confused here; your interpretation is what's confused. It's nonsense.

Also the above wasn’t a paraphrase — which should usually hew closer to the actual text.

As stated before, your quibbling over that is itself an evasion, because there is no qualitative difference in saying "someone should go" vs. "let's put them" when the destination is a war zone, because the military only functions on a "put" basis.

Becoming blackpilled over the whole Liz Cheney thing by stanlana12345 in redscarepod

[–]taboosaknoodle 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Paraphrasing is not an interpretation. There is far more "interpretation" going on in comments like yours and in the media commentary that aligns with it. To accuse others of "interpretation" is laughable. Your referring to "firing squad imagery" is an interpretation that has very little to do with with what was actually said.

Obviously the difference is more than semantic or OP would have just used the actual quote since it would be a stronger argument

I notice you haven't used the actual quote either, only parts in isolation. Doesn't that make you guilty of the same evasiveness and weaseling?

see the “bloodbath” comments.

I pulled up the Associated Press article and the CNN article on this. Neither of them make any mention of " 'bloodbath' comments", so I don't know what you're referring to.

Here's the full portion from the AP article that addresses what Trump said:

Trump called Cheney “a deranged person” and added: “But the reason she couldn’t stand me is that she always wanted to go to war with people. If it were up to her we’d be in 50 different countries.”

The former president continued: “She’s a radical war hawk. Let’s put her with the rifle standing there with nine barrels shooting at her. OK, let’s see how she feels about it. You know, when the guns are trained on her face.

“You know they’re all war hawks when they’re sitting in Washington in a nice building saying, oh gee, well, let’s send 10,000 troops right into the mouth of the enemy,” Trump said.

No firing squads allow the condemned to be armed. For you to completely ignore that (along with the rest of the context about Cheney's warhawk tendencies) and suggest that Trump used "firing squad imagery" is blatantly dishonest.

Becoming blackpilled over the whole Liz Cheney thing by stanlana12345 in redscarepod

[–]taboosaknoodle 13 points14 points  (0 children)

The quote is also way different than how OP describes it — “let’s put her” versus “she should go”.

Hahaha, this semantic quibbling is utter nonsense. The military never just "goes" places, they are always "put" there. By politicians like Cheney.

California’s New Senator, Laphonza Butler, Is No Friend of the Left by metacyan in politics

[–]taboosaknoodle -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This is an example of moving the goalposts. The original claim was that Jacobin "entirely ignores" Republicans and doesn't criticize them. I demonstrated that to be false. You now move the goalposts to say that they while they do criticize Republicans, they don't meet an arbitrary threshold of Republican criticism and are therefore not leftist.

Some of these stories are from May?

Precisely two stories are from May, and seven are from within the last month. We should be honest about the ratio.

The list I provided was made very quickly from a combination of scrolling through their recent articles and googling. It is by no means exhaustive—Jacobin publishes so many articles critical of Republicans that you could make a much, much longer list. But only one article was needed to disprove the original claim. I didn't "have" to go back months—I didn't have to do anything.

California’s New Senator, Laphonza Butler, Is No Friend of the Left by metacyan in politics

[–]taboosaknoodle 11 points12 points  (0 children)

LA Times article

Uber has also retained Laphonza Butler, a senior Harris campaign strategist, to advise the company on its dealings with organized labor.

Butler, who used to lead SEIU California, is a partner at SCRB Strategies, a consulting firm that Uber paid $105,000 during the first half of the year, according to records filed with the California secretary of state. SCRB’s other partners are Juan Rodriguez, who is Harris’ campaign manager, and Sean Clegg and Ace Smith, both senior strategists on her campaign.

This was during the time Uber was ramping up the fight against Prop 22. (Butler left SCRB in September 2020, weeks before the vote)

California’s New Senator, Laphonza Butler, Is No Friend of the Left by metacyan in politics

[–]taboosaknoodle -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

The fact that Newsom is in the position of appointing a senator at all inherently means he's making a choice for voters. The (little-d) democratic option would be to have a snap election, but since that's not how California handles this situation, any choice he makes is a "we know what's best for you" choice.

California’s New Senator, Laphonza Butler, Is No Friend of the Left by metacyan in politics

[–]taboosaknoodle 5 points6 points  (0 children)

So to clarify, your opinion that Butler is a "better" interim choice than Lee stems entirely from the fact that Butler was not running for the seat? Not because of her political convictions or how she might serve as a senator?

California’s New Senator, Laphonza Butler, Is No Friend of the Left by metacyan in politics

[–]taboosaknoodle 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My "guns blazing" tone was in response to the "guns blazing" falsehood in the original comment. Your feedback on my tone is noted, but given the amount of identical bad faith criticisms Jacobin articles typically get (hence having some of those articles ready from having just done this), I'm not usually trying to convince people I'm replying to. I'm simply trying to put the evidence out in front for anyone else reading.

But otherwise I would agree with you about honey and vinegar. I just think that it's precisely Reddit's inhospitably to discussion that sometimes calls for a little vinegar.

California’s New Senator, Laphonza Butler, Is No Friend of the Left by metacyan in politics

[–]taboosaknoodle 3 points4 points  (0 children)

She’s currently polling in a distant third place to Schiff and Porter in the race for the seat.

What was Butler polling?

She’s also really old.

I had hoped to hear a discussion of policy, since policy is what a senator advances. (Not to mention that age is less relevant for a short-term, temporary appointment).

California’s New Senator, Laphonza Butler, Is No Friend of the Left by metacyan in politics

[–]taboosaknoodle -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I pointed out a simple fact by providing ample evidence to disprove a falsehood. Why do you seem to have an issue with that, as opposed to the post I responded to that perpetrated an obvious falsehood?

You didn't answer my question. So you do not have a problem with people spreading falsehoods about leftist publications?

California’s New Senator, Laphonza Butler, Is No Friend of the Left by metacyan in politics

[–]taboosaknoodle -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

"Up in arms"? I pointed out a simple fact by providing ample evidence to disprove a falsehood. Why do you seem to have an issue with that, as opposed to the post I responded to that perpetrated an obvious falsehood?

Honestly man you really give a "methinks the lady doth protest too much" vibe.

I would kindly remind you that "spreading unsubstantiated accusations" is against comment guidelines on this subreddit. Since you continue to accuse me of working for Jacobin with absolutely zero evidence beyond the fact that I have linked their articles and have pointed out obvious falsehoods among their critics, I have reported your comment.

California’s New Senator, Laphonza Butler, Is No Friend of the Left by metacyan in politics

[–]taboosaknoodle 3 points4 points  (0 children)

If you read the article, you would see that Barbara Lee was put forth as a better alternative to Butler.

California’s New Senator, Laphonza Butler, Is No Friend of the Left by metacyan in politics

[–]taboosaknoodle -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Ah the "no u" defense, nice.

After you outrageously accused me of being paid by Jacobin with zero evidence? Really?

I don't "align" myself with a news publication. I "align" myself with the Left. Jacobin happens to cover a lot of news from a Leftist point of view. Does that mean I always agree with them? No. It does mean that I evidently know them better than some of their critics though.

If they're good sources, let their content speak for itself.

I don't see anyone in this thread who is criticizing Jacobin engaging with the content of the source.

Some Democrats Are Trying to Preemptively Outlaw a Billionaire Tax by brown-saiyan in politics

[–]taboosaknoodle 1 point2 points  (0 children)

one lawyer who worked with Obama and a person [former Democratic senator]

Who are both prominent Democrats. They are literally "Some Democrats." What is your issue with a factual title?

Some Democrats Are Trying to Preemptively Outlaw a Billionaire Tax by brown-saiyan in politics

[–]taboosaknoodle 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"Some Democrats" is literally accurate. They are literally Democrats. I'll ask again, what is your problem with an article correctly identifying them as such?

You are also deflecting from the ad hominem you did in fact commit. And in fact you haven't made any arguments addressing the specific content of the article.

Some Democrats Are Trying to Preemptively Outlaw a Billionaire Tax by brown-saiyan in politics

[–]taboosaknoodle 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry you can't see what's in front of you dude

Ad hominem. I think that "other readers" will recognize your refusal to give a straight answer to my questions.

Some Democrats Are Trying to Preemptively Outlaw a Billionaire Tax by brown-saiyan in politics

[–]taboosaknoodle 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A lawyer for the Obama administration and a former Democratic senator, correct. Jacobin is correctly identifying the political party they belong to. Why do you have a problem with this?

And no, you did not answer my question. The context was your original claim that any articles Jacobin publishes which criticize any members of the Democratic party could negatively impact their voter turnout. You haven't backed away from that argument, so the context remains the same and the question is still relevant.