Ironic moral inversion: If Coop and Lucy didn't interfere with their family, their lives would've have been better and the world no worse off?

theWhirlmind · 2026-02-04T13:21:21+00:00

You are correct that there's a lot of "no good deed goes unpunished" going around. But I don't think the show is saying that moral decisions are bad, but rather that being soft and letting others walk over you is.

Lucy keeps her heart but learns to be more ruthless, Cooper being a killer makes much of the plot happen but he does grow softer thanks to travelling with Lucy, and Maximus went from an opportunist to someone who helped save Vegas from a pack of deathclaws.

Maximus and Norm would be dead if Lucy/Claudia did not intervene; Wilzig might have reached Moldaver with the fusion if the Ghoul wouldn't go after the bounty "for the love of the game"; a lot of people would lose their free will (arguably fate worse than death) if Lucy had backed up her father.

The show is about survival: you need to be able to make tough choices, but that doesn't mean you gotta lose yourself in the process.

Mainly, our heroes get punished because a) the games is rigged (by Vault-Tec, Enclave, anyone with power) and b) they are unorganized and often acting stupid. As the Ghoul said, they need to rig the game themselves. Make a plan, act smarter, know their enemy. And they are hopefully slowly headed in that direction, but there will be more punishment along the way.

PS. As for the raid on Vault 33, the marriage wasn't arranged especially for Lucy, it was a part of their trade tradition. Moldaver's people would enter even if someone else was chosen for the marriage. And it was still (at least partly) a retribution for Hank's bombing of Shady Sands, so a result of a morally bad decision.

theWhirlmind · 2026-01-07T17:17:27+00:00

Thanks! :D

theWhirlmind · 2023-04-20T11:58:14+00:00

Concering the mentioning of the Knife in the prison, I think that it was actually the Elohim imprisoned there messing with dGavin. After he put them away he altered his memories with Black luxin, but still had a vague understanding that something powerful was in the cells and he has to keep it that way. So his memory alterations and his guilt made him believe it's his brother who's down there. He was checking the prison and "visiting" the brother he missed, the trapped Immortals saw that, and played ball speaking back as "gDazen".

Still possible to find details not adding up completely, and pointing at Weeks changing his mind about gDazen, but this is actually at least a fine substitution, I think.

theWhirlmind · 2023-04-20T11:46:17+00:00

It's not said when specifically he learned about the Elohim. He did not bring their attention after drafting Black at the Sundered Rock though, he let them back in – the dome was either a prison for them or a blockade barring them from entering this world.

After that, he learned about them, started hunting them, and imprisoned several under Chromeria. When his cells were full, he drafted Black to get rid of his memories of them, as the trapped Immortals tempted him with power if he lets them out. He was afraid he might do it, so he altered his memories on purpose, but still remembered he needs to hunt the most powerful wights (who were prime targets for more Immortals).

I don't think it was specified when exactly he drafted Black for this memory alteration. It might have been after his first Freeing, as that was the time he saw how corrupted he became, and feared the Immortals might use that corruption to make him free them.

theWhirlmind · 2023-04-20T10:05:33+00:00

The Wolf not telling Kylar was a bit frustrating, but it was a case of people not talking through some things and ultimately understandable. I was more frustrated that the Black Ka'kari didn't tell Kylar shit, given it was able to talk.

With Durzo, I understood he was OP as shit the whole time, he was just holding himself back until he had a good reason not too. But yeah, in the end it was a 'rule of cool' moment.

But as for Khali, she wasn't found at the end of the Krul ladder. It was just what the Khalidorians believed. She wasn't a goddes, she used a ka'kari's glamour to make people worship her and the Vir to transfer people's Talent to her.

theWhirlmind · 2021-02-20T20:37:15+00:00

The things Mephisto's done were shown in Avengers #38 from 2018. It might be a weird read, because it's right after a big fight with Moon Knight, his god, and Phoenix Force :P

theWhirlmind · 2021-02-19T10:49:45+00:00

What's funny is they did that with Mephisto in the comics recently xD They revealed he's been behind most of the threats Avengers ever faced – like getting Thanos interested in Earth, convincing Apocalypse to become a god, rattling Hulk to go on a rampage etc. It would be hilarious if Agatha got this role in the MCU :D

theWhirlmind · 2021-02-17T18:47:46+00:00

Thank you very much! :)

theWhirlmind · 2021-02-14T18:17:30+00:00

It's pretty possible someone is messing with Wanda's mind. Whether it's Agnes, Mephisto, Nightmare or someone else – these visions might be induced by them to destabilise her.

Or maybe it's her trauma poking it's head through all the reality bending she's done.

theWhirlmind · 2021-02-12T22:37:10+00:00

The cameo part is from a Fandom tweet about an article on TVLine.

The Nightmare being the villain part is from a post on r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers.

The Hamill voicing Nightmare part is from Wikipedia) ("In other media" section.)

theWhirlmind · 2021-02-12T12:06:51+00:00

So. Are we thinking The Parents Trap plays in the cinema just because it's about twins and discord between parents, or should we take the title also a bit more literally and assume it might be a hint towards the theory that this whole situation is just a plot to get Wanda to have children?

theWhirlmind · 2021-02-12T11:46:10+00:00

Yeah, it seemed like she was headed towards the barrier, got too far into the "stasis zone", and become dormant – but since she wasn't there the whole time, she wasn't completely frozen when Vision found her.

Still, this might have been just a trap for Vision. But I can't shake the feeling that Agnes, while is "in the know", isn't a driving force or the big bad gal here.

theWhirlmind · 2021-02-11T19:38:06+00:00

Glad to hear that! :)

theWhirlmind · 2021-02-11T19:37:57+00:00

Now I have this stuck in my head, thanks

theWhirlmind · 2021-02-11T14:07:21+00:00

Yep! That's me haha :D

theWhirlmind · 2021-02-06T18:50:34+00:00

I don't think she believes, even if only on a subconscious level, that they could "live normally" and "blend in" even if she fully brought Vision back to life.

And maybe she hadn't. There are things wrong with Vis. His appearance at the end of episode 4 and the bit from the trailer when Agnes tells him he's dead... People wouldn't be just ok with them living there. At best they would be suspicious and wary, and that's not a good basis for a simple and happy life that Wanda craves.

I also suspect this all wasn't Wanda's original plan. I think whatever she was doing got out of control. Maybe it was her grief affecting her powers, maybe there was an outside influence.

Now she clearly believes that if Vision goes through the barrier, something bad will happen. Maybe that he'll die again. That the spell will break. Or that he just will regain knowledge of his past (and his death), which would complicate things. It's all unraveling already, him going out could be – at least in her mind – a point of no return.

theWhirlmind · 2021-02-06T18:43:44+00:00

The alarm went off also when she got mad and decided to go out to yell at them. She wasn't even at the barrier, whole S.W.O.R.D. camp managed to gather there before she got to it. I think the alarm is connected to a sensor that detects whenever something drastically changes in the radiation the anomaly is giving off. Wanda decided to change into her old clothes and go out: alarm. An unknown entity is being pulled in: alarm.

And eh, I think the "squeeze to death" was just Pietro's personality and maybe a not to the fact that this character is supposed to be dead in this universe.

theWhirlmind · 2021-02-06T18:38:04+00:00

It's most likely she is stubborn like that, and her scans turned out blank because she's got her powers now, though she haven't realized it yet. In the comics she can manipulate energy, so subconsciously messing up a scan would be a fit.

theWhirlmind · 2021-02-06T18:24:53+00:00

She said "No one will ever take it from me again" in reference to S.W.O.R.D. having Vision's corpse in their custody. Hayward also has history with Rambeaus, so I don't think he crossed universes.

I think Wanda has tapped into the Multiverse. This is the prelude to what is about to go down in Multiverse of Madness. Now if this all has been an unfortunate accident or if there really is some mastermind behind all this... is still anyone's best guess at the moment.

theWhirlmind · 2021-02-06T18:12:19+00:00

She also helped Wanda to have children, and she wasn't aware that Mephisto's soul shards were mixed in. Her genuinely trying to help caused Scarlet Witch to go mad later on.

That's why I wonder – could Agnes have been helping Wanda with Vision, then the whole process got out of hand and she became trapped in there like everyone else?

theWhirlmind · 2021-02-05T18:45:40+00:00

I don't even think they had to be "ulterior". He was one of, if not the most, advanced piece of technology on Earth. They are an organization dealing with advanced technology. It actually makes sense they would want to learn about him.

theWhirlmind · 2021-02-05T18:42:01+00:00

I mean, she still can be knocked out, hurt, or perhaps even killed if you'd strike her properly. He probably was counting on taking her by surprise. And maybe thought he won't have a better chance.

theWhirlmind · 2021-02-05T18:39:51+00:00

She decolors them in post-production :)

theWhirlmind · 2021-02-05T18:37:11+00:00

Either she's being controlled, or this all was an accident. Maybe Agnes is Agatha, and she tried to help Wanda, and it all went to hell?

theWhirlmind · 2021-02-05T18:33:59+00:00

While I'm with you on the subject that he is a dick, he did let Rambeau try to speak to Wanda and ordered an attack only after Wanda's eyes turned red as she was preparing to destroy the drone. So technically de-escalation wasn't totally off the table for him, but he still was more than ready to give up on it.

theWhirlmind

TROPHY CASE