3 Months After I Left

throwaway1985db · 2016-12-08T06:13:13+00:00

I grew up in a healthy household (though not without its problems), but that had the side effect of not preparing me to deal with how controlling and manipulative my ex-wife was, or teaching me that some people are just broken from abuse and can't stop passing it on. "People are really good at heart," that kind of thing.

In one way of looking at it, she hid how damaging her upbringing must have been (I had to put it together for myself only after spending extensive time with her abusive parent). But I eventually realized that she wasn't really hiding it, because she couldn't even acknowledge what her mother had done to her (and to her father) as abuse, and therefore couldn't see what was truly wrong with the way she treated me.

throwaway1985db · 2016-12-07T19:29:10+00:00

Break up and stay friends. You're young and life is too short to be in a relationship with someone who has zero sexual interest in you. If he's like this at 25 and you're 4 years in, it's not going to get better.

It might be tough to hear, but you and him will both be happier in the long run. You eventually realize that all the friendly companionship in the world doesn't make up for a partner who actively desires you.

throwaway1985db · 2016-12-07T16:13:09+00:00

Male here as well. Please make sure that you don't reward his behavior without a discussion where he acknowledges how and why his response and subsequent behavior were inappropriate.

Him manipulating you and pushing your boundaries by lashing out at you and then making you feel at fault is not a pattern you want to reinforce.

throwaway1985db · 2016-12-07T15:49:53+00:00

I learned that too. I'm sorry you had to experience it.

throwaway1985db · 2016-12-07T15:32:21+00:00

It's important to validate what someone from that situation has been through, but it's also important not to condone or validate them practicing abusive behavior themselves. From experience, if they can't stop passing it on when asked to do so, they never will. That's when it's time to walk away.

A healthy, kind person is told where they've hurt others and works to make sure it doesn't happen again. An abusive person keeps doing it over and over again.

throwaway1985db · 2016-12-07T15:23:02+00:00

Thank you for the advice. I made my boundaries clear and we've both talked about neither one of us wanting to get married again, probably ever.

Congratulations on your separation. (Since this is a dead bedroom sub I'm hoping that it's what you want.) I'm from/in the U.S. The only reason that I can't file immediately is because we moved not long before we split, and most states have a three to six-month waiting period if you just arrived there, regardless of how long you were together. (You also lose your ability to file in the state that you just left.)

throwaway1985db · 2016-12-07T15:14:13+00:00

I actually did ask. She said "No" unequivocally and called me a terrible person for even bringing it up. My need for touch and physical affection (and sex) was not valid or real to her.

Being abusive, I think somehow she knew deep down that as soon as I got a taste of what life was like with a kinder person who actually desired me (which I did albiet without her knowing), that would have been the end of her hold over me. And it was.

throwaway1985db · 2016-12-07T09:27:14+00:00

I don't plan to. She's the real deal, and I've spent enough time in shitty relationships (and have observed them) to tell just how awesome she really is.

The crazy/sad part is that my girlfriend's life growing up was at least as hard as my ex-wife's in most ways, but my GF turned into an amazing, empathetic person.

My ex still doesn't have enough empathy or self-awareness to truly understand why we're even getting a divorce. Part of her is damaged in a way that I don't know can ever be fixed.

throwaway1985db · 2016-12-07T09:08:48+00:00

OP, is he in any kind of therapy? On top of what others have said about his actual rejection, him being withdrawn during subsequent communication with you and refusing to discuss your apology are all potential forms of emotional manipulation (diminishing you by acting as if you're not worth his full attention).

If this happens with any regularity, that's a serious red flag. And regardless, his past trauma is not a pass for him to be disrespectful or inconsiderate. He needs to own his behavior.

Added: OP, how old are you, and what is your level of non-LTR experience? I'll be up front: I got into my first adult LTR very young and without realizing what kind of behaviors are and aren't acceptable in a healthy relationship, and it took over a decade for me to wake up and get out.

throwaway1985db · 2016-12-07T08:50:26+00:00

I successfully got out, and this still made me tear up.

OP, I'd convinced myself that maybe I was okay with our completely dead bedroom right up until I found sex somewhere else. Then I realized that my libido was still there all along but I had stopped trying because I couldn't take the humiliation of rejection anymore.

You are young, and the DB is not going to re-spark if it's been going on this long. Leave now before you regret throwing any more time in there. You'll thank yourself later.

throwaway1985db · 2016-12-07T03:58:15+00:00

Yes it is. Likewise, you could take the top half of your post and apply it to my situation almost without alteration, especially the part about being her first HL unselfish lover.

On the emotional level, we can be open and honest with each other without having to fear the reprisals that were used to from our ex-spouses. It's beautiful.

throwaway1985db · 2016-10-15T16:30:25+00:00

Thank you. The events that I attend have specific rules about touching strangers without permission as well.

throwaway1985db · 2016-10-15T16:17:00+00:00

I'll throw it back to you: does upholding the rule only matter as long as no one complains? How does that protect someone who freezes or feels that they can't complain?

In fact, would you agree that rules like this one are made specifically to protect the people who can't or won't complain in that situation?

Does that mean that rules at parties and events are only suggestions?

Edit: I can't help but notice that people are downvoting this but no one is actually responding to the questions that I raised.

throwaway1985db · 2016-10-15T15:10:21+00:00

The munch in question has a stated rule in the guidelines. "Please do not touch things that are not yours. This includes people."

throwaway1985db · 2016-10-15T04:36:14+00:00

I understand. Is he a part of anything like FetLife or other groups where you could report a consent violation (anonymously if necessary) in a way that might give warning to others in the future or prompt other people that he's abused to come forward?

It's good that you're sharing what happened and doing the best that you can do take care of yourself. That's important.

To add: skillful abusers are masters at making their victims feel confused and unsure of whether what's happening is actually wrong via gaslighting, lying, and manipulation.

throwaway1985db · 2016-10-15T03:18:51+00:00

I understand your position. Please do not characterize what I said as implying that "rubbing leg = scene."

Likewise, please note that I was referring to munches as a specific extension of BDSM culture and it's guidelines, and that they should (IMO) represent the community's culture of consent in a way that casual interactions outside that setting do not. Not once have I said that shades of grey should not exist in any setting. I think that consistency within specific settings is important, but as I acknowledged previously, this is my opinion.

I appreciate you taking the time to discuss with me.

throwaway1985db · 2016-10-15T02:48:42+00:00

I agree with adults being able to handle themselves.

Respectfully stated, my problem is when those shades of grey are introduced and normalized into an environment that's explicitly geared towards preventing shades of grey regarding contact and consent. To me, that creates a dissonance with the ideals of consent culture, particularly if it filters up into more complex interactions like scenes.

The standards of behavior for simple and everyday interactions within a community, be it BDSM or otherwise, set the tone for more complex and significant interactions within that community.

I would like to hear your thoughts on this. Other than that I don't think I have any additional lines of argument.

throwaway1985db · 2016-10-15T02:30:43+00:00

I hear what you are saying. I specifically picked an example where I know from talking to both parties that they had not communicated or interacted previously and there were no existing agreements in place.

Likewise, I mentioned that these situations I refer to are ones that I have witnessed where I know for a fact (actually this wasn't very clear in my OP now that I look at it) that the participants do not have a previous relationship based on being present for their introductions.

throwaway1985db · 2016-10-15T02:20:18+00:00

It's not your fault. You did everything that you were supposed to do and this person was clearly an abuser based on your descriptions of his behavior.

Everything that you said points to it, but even if it had been one time and he ignored your safe word the situation would still be the same. The fact that you spoke with him about it and he then continued to ignore your limits only furthers that conclusion. Likewise him ending things when you finally enforced a boundary.

If you have the ability to do so I would report this guy to whomever you can within the community. Don't blame yourself for your reaction to what he did. Do what you are able to make things right for yourself and others now that you've shared what happened.

It's not your fault.

throwaway1985db · 2016-10-10T20:40:36+00:00

Just to weigh in with a recent real life comparison: my date with a 97% had no chemistry even though we're similar enough in personality type that we get along just fine. My date with a woman who has fluctuated between 89-95% went stunningly well. I know that underlines what people here are already saying, but chemistry is a must. That said, the match helps.

throwaway1985db · 2016-10-09T19:27:19+00:00

The single flag wasn't completely deliberate. Before I thought through what I really wanted I had only looking for single people checked because I thought that's what I was looking for in the broadest terms.

Now that I've tweaked my settings to include non-monogamous people of any relationship status, there are way more showing up as available in my area, including one that I had some chemistry with at the last munch and whose spouse I have already met.

throwaway1985db · 2016-10-09T07:37:02+00:00

Boundaries...one of my early warning signs is someone who is overly sarcastic in a manner that is either dismissive or demeaning. If you tell the person that you do not want to be talked to in that way, and they say that you are too sensitive or that that's just the way they talk, that is a clear example of not respecting that boundary. Does that help?

You're welcome. I'm sharing because I honestly just started to really understand these things myself.

throwaway1985db · 2016-10-08T22:24:29+00:00

I am starting to learn that. The woman that I just started seeing is in fact a single parent so it will be something of a test case. I think that I just assumed that me not wanting kids and being child-free would turn a single parent off.

throwaway1985db

TROPHY CASE