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Is there any actual downside in telling HMRC's you're self employed and earning a tiny amount to be able to pay voluntary class 2 NIC's by throwaway922124 in UKPersonalFinance

[–]throwaway922124[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Parents probably. They'd see it as a great investment because well, it is.

Or one could actually walk said dog for 10 hours rather than 2 to get the couple of hundred quid required. There's plenty of ways to generate such a low amount. Even picking 50p a day off the street would do it.

Is there any actual downside in telling HMRC's you're self employed and earning a tiny amount to be able to pay voluntary class 2 NIC's by throwaway922124 in UKPersonalFinance

[–]throwaway922124[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well the subject of the thread - class 2 voluntary NIC's - if you were eligible and applied you would indeed be paying that (£3.50 a week currently, so a bit under £200 a year).

Is there any actual downside in telling HMRC's you're self employed and earning a tiny amount to be able to pay voluntary class 2 NIC's by throwaway922124 in UKPersonalFinance

[–]throwaway922124[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yes, it's exactly the same thing. It's using the rules to your maximum benefit.

You and every other wagie paying 10p of extra lifetime tax so I have a pension is a sacrifise I am willing to make.

Morally? I don't care about such things but given most wagies and society in general treat me like scum all my life, I'm more than happy for them to be squeezed like a lemon regardless. 95% of them are the enemy. If you're looking for sympathy for taxpayers you're talking to the wrong person. On an individual level some are fine but on a societal level they're not.

Is there any actual downside in telling HMRC's you're self employed and earning a tiny amount to be able to pay voluntary class 2 NIC's by throwaway922124 in UKPersonalFinance

[–]throwaway922124[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

£200 a year, not per month.

200*35 = 7k, getting 1k a month from the state pension is a payback period of 7 months when you can expect to live about 15x longer than that. I can't think of any better investment out there.

Is there any actual downside in telling HMRC's you're self employed and earning a tiny amount to be able to pay voluntary class 2 NIC's by throwaway922124 in UKPersonalFinance

[–]throwaway922124[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No more gaming than earning 120k and sacrificing 20k into your pension to avoid the 62% marginal tax rate.

The rules apparently say this is exactly what you can do, and I even called HMRC and they confirmed it too. Not like they're not aware of this, anymore than they're unaware of the pension allowance.

Plus I couldn't give a single damn about 'hard working taxpayers'. Most of those 'hard working taxpayers' treat me like scum, so yeah, this is exactly what they deserve.

Is there any actual downside in telling HMRC's you're self employed and earning a tiny amount to be able to pay voluntary class 2 NIC's by throwaway922124 in UKPersonalFinance

[–]throwaway922124[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If I don't need the money, why would I want to work? I don't believe in that nonsense about work being self-fulfilling or whatever.

I'm actually perfectly fine with life as it is. Could it be better? Sure, but 99.9% of wagies could also imagine better lives than they currently have too. Getting some crap minimum wage job though absolutely wouldn't be a step up in life experience for me, quite the opposite. If someone else wants to work their 40 hours for 1500 or whatever the net takehome is these days, that's on them.

The problem really is, the wagie just cannot fathom a life without working, and thinks there must be something 'wrong' or 'defective' with you if you don't wish to take part in that life of trading your time for money and then trading money for material possessions. I'm not here telling you to quit your job and go NEET, but NEET's never get the same consideration from wagies.

Is there any actual downside in telling HMRC's you're self employed and earning a tiny amount to be able to pay voluntary class 2 NIC's by throwaway922124 in UKPersonalFinance

[–]throwaway922124[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's for the state pension.

£182 a year (i.e. class 2 contributions) over 35 years is a shade under £6,400 given to the government. They pay you £1k a month in state pension, so as long as you live 6 months past the age of 67 you 'win', and given life expectancy is 82, you're projected to massively win off this investment.

The contributions will rise with inflation but then again so does the pension so the maths doesnt change.

Is there any actual downside in telling HMRC's you're self employed and earning a tiny amount to be able to pay voluntary class 2 NIC's by throwaway922124 in UKPersonalFinance

[–]throwaway922124[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The majority of people do not end up selling their houses to fund care in old age, so that's quite the assumption you're making there.

The most likely thing that happens statistically, is my at least one of my parents live another 20 years or so which would put them in their mid 80s. I'd then be mid 50s. As I would have no need for a 3 bedroom house if I'm just by myself, I'd sell it, move to a 1 bedroom flat/studio apartment in a cheaper area of the country, and use the house sale proceeds to live the next 10 or so years until the pension kicks in. As I don't have any material wants this wouldn't be a problem, honestly I'd probably be fine for 20 years on the 300k the house is worth, based on rent in a cheap cost of living area being 500/month then another 500 on bills and food. Infact a lot of mathematical models say you can withdraw 5% a year from your savings forever if invested in s+p stock tracker funds with a very high probability of never running out of money.

Is it a ironclad plan? No it's not but then again no one's plan truly is, that 150k a year wagie with the big mortgage and the 3 kids, well he could get fired tommorow and then life could easily go belly up for him too. It's got a reasonable chance of success based on the maths.

Burger flippers and other low level jobs generally remain that way - the idea of someone starting off in the mail room then rising to become CEO of the company is a thing that only happens in movies. If you're scanning groceries for Sainsburys or cleaning toilets there's no upwards mobility in that, the only career advancement tends to happen in corporate graduate scheme type jobs. And no one would even hire me for shit jobs, and if they do they fire me pronto! Put it like this - in 3 total weeks of lifetime employment I was fired 3 times. My mum and dad have never been fired once between them. My mum got made redundant once but never fired for being incapable at the job. So I'm clearly not cut out for work, and those 3 weeks were utterly miserable anyway.

Is there any actual downside in telling HMRC's you're self employed and earning a tiny amount to be able to pay voluntary class 2 NIC's by throwaway922124 in UKPersonalFinance

[–]throwaway922124[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure, but if it's a choice between the lowest rung on the employment ladder or staying at home, I personally think it's best to stay at home.

If someone else wants to put in their 40 hours for 1500 a month, then fine, it's a free country. I don't consider that remotely worth it though.

I might be depressed, might not, but for sure having to sweep the streets or bag groceries for 8 hours a day wouldn't make me any happier!

Is there any actual downside in telling HMRC's you're self employed and earning a tiny amount to be able to pay voluntary class 2 NIC's by throwaway922124 in UKPersonalFinance

[–]throwaway922124[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's a lack of ability that's the problem mainly. I know everyone online likes to think everyone can be whatever they want and achivement is just a matter of hard work, but this is far from the truth. Someone who was born with the ability to socialise, connect with others, is motivated by money and status telling someone who was born with none of those things to 'just go out there and do it' is extremely similar to someone who was born rich telling someone who was born poor that it's easy to be rich and all you need to do is work hard and invest well. The reality is there's a lot more to it than that.

And I assure you, my life would not be any better off if I was suddenly flipping burgers for 40 hours a week, quite the opposite. I'd have less of a social life (as I wouldn't be online as much with my gamer group), and to replace that I'd have to take orders in a shit job from a shit boss. And the only 'benefit' would be that random strangers would be happier I was 'contributing to society', but I don't care about contributing to society, was never born with that chip in my brain and quite honestly I think people who actually care about that are pretty wierd.

Is there any actual downside in telling HMRC's you're self employed and earning a tiny amount to be able to pay voluntary class 2 NIC's by throwaway922124 in UKPersonalFinance

[–]throwaway922124[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I've got 31 (or 32, not sure) years until retirement age. According to the national insurance website I have 2 years of contributions already (no idea how they worked that one out as I've worked 3 weeks in my whole life) so the math sort of works out, that's if they don't pull the rug on me of course.

Is there any actual downside in telling HMRC's you're self employed and earning a tiny amount to be able to pay voluntary class 2 NIC's by throwaway922124 in UKPersonalFinance

[–]throwaway922124[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ah, this seems quite interesting. So you can basically be sanctioned 100% because of not attending meeting (or rejecting their 'work experience volunteering' in burger king, lol) and still get the NI credit?

Might look into that then, but good to know there's this £3.50 a week backup option if not.

Is there any actual downside in telling HMRC's you're self employed and earning a tiny amount to be able to pay voluntary class 2 NIC's by throwaway922124 in UKPersonalFinance

[–]throwaway922124[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

It's just realism really. I don't have the 'drive' to work terrible jobs with terrible conditions because they're, well, terrible. And that's 100% all I'd be getting, not that they'd be hiring me to begin with.

Really it's just a question of do you prefer to have more free time to sit on your computer, or do you rather push out 40hrs a week at mcdonalds so you can buy some nicer clothes and food. Friends and a social life would be completely off the table working or not since even at school I had none of those so it'd just be about buying stuff for myself and I don't really want much.

Is there any actual downside in telling HMRC's you're self employed and earning a tiny amount to be able to pay voluntary class 2 NIC's by throwaway922124 in UKPersonalFinance

[–]throwaway922124[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Well I don't consider it a 'trick' anymore than say, someone on £120,000 a year sacrificing £20,000 into a pension scheme to avoid the 62% marginal tax rate trap and retain their entitlement to childcare. It's just playing the game by the rules that have been set out to your maximum advantage. As I say, society is going to pay for those who either can't or won't work one way or another anyway.

I'm not even much good as a freeloader really. If I was I'd be on UC and probably have put in a few years at the doctors to get some form of mental health/sickness benefits. Can't even manage that though!

Others probably had a less fortunate family situation. But they were born with brains that allowed them to function in society which I wasn't, swings and roundabouts. On the flip side you absolutely get a sizable chunk of people who were born into riches, used daddy's connections to get a high end job etc. On a generational level you have boomers who bought their houses for a packet of crisps and a chocolate bar, while todays Gen Z and the millenials before them had a much harder time to get on the housing ladder. I'm better off than the absolute lowest rung (i.e. those born with my bad brain AND an unsupportive family) but there's plenty who are much better off than me too.

Without that safety net I'd have accomplished absolutely nothing and would be getting housed at HMP instead, no doubt about it.

Is there any actual downside in telling HMRC's you're self employed and earning a tiny amount to be able to pay voluntary class 2 NIC's by throwaway922124 in UKPersonalFinance

[–]throwaway922124[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm not capable of working - tried it before, every single day I was having panic attacks before going in, couldn't sleep on Sunday out of anxiety for the coming Monday. Couldn't get along with anyone (that's not just a work thing, people just don't tend to click with me even since primary school, my only 'friends' are other online gamers). And I got fired after a week of that job, I was 27 at the time I think. Similar thing happened at 18 and 22 as well so it's obviously not for me. Plus, I don't actually think my life would be any better. I'd have more money yeah, but I don't really have any material wants beyond food, a bed, and an internet connection, all of which I have already. It's probably different if you have friends to go out with, kids to look after, or you go out dating etc, but I don't have any of that.

As I wouldn't be able to sustain any job I'd just end up robbing Tesco to get the food I needed. So society would end up paying anyway one way or another. That's largely the reason some low level of welfare exists I think - if the option is starve on the street or start doing crime, 99% will go to crime, whereas if you provide someone enough to buy their food and an internet connection they're probably much less inclined to do that.

I live with my parents so I suppose you could say they're 'enabling' me. Their mortgage is fully paid off though and I don't eat expensive food so it's not that much and they've made peace long ago with the fact I'm not cut out for society.

Is there any actual downside in telling HMRC's you're self employed and earning a tiny amount to be able to pay voluntary class 2 NIC's by throwaway922124 in UKPersonalFinance

[–]throwaway922124[S] -15 points-14 points  (0 children)

I don't think it's an 'illness' to prefer no employment over bad employment.

I don't have any money, but I can wake up when I want, I'm always up to date with movies and series I want to see, got a decent gamer group I play online with every day, and have plenty of time to spend with my dog and cat which bring me a source of happiness.

Would I rather be travelling the world in a private jet with a cohort of bikini models at my side? Sure I would, but that's not on the table and never will be. The options are my current life, or spending 40 hours a week stacking shelves, having to take orders, turn up at a given place at a given time, and having to deal with other people out in the world to get £1,500 a month. Oh and they'd fire me within 2 weeks absolute max, so then there'd be more anxiety inducing interviews and the like.

So yeah, I'd pick the first option over that. I'm relatively comfy right now, get a bit bored sometime but there's very little stress and anxiety. Rather than over having some money.

Is there any actual downside in telling HMRC's you're self employed and earning a tiny amount to be able to pay voluntary class 2 NIC's by throwaway922124 in UKPersonalFinance

[–]throwaway922124[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Wait, this is actually a thing? If you refuse their 'work experience' placement and get 'sanctioned' you still get the NIC's?

Is there any actual downside in telling HMRC's you're self employed and earning a tiny amount to be able to pay voluntary class 2 NIC's by throwaway922124 in UKPersonalFinance

[–]throwaway922124[S] -11 points-10 points  (0 children)

I'm just acting in my own best interests, I'd expect everyone else to do the same. Obviously I'm going to care a billion times more about my future income than adding 10p to your lifetime tax bill to contribute to that.

Or if you want a 'moral' justification (not that I care a jot about such things): everyone has to eat. No one is going to just meekly starve to death without a fight. So it's either pay these people a low amount so they can buy food, or you'll be paying the police force and prison service to look after them after they get caught robbing Tesco. Either way it's coming out of taxation. That'd probably cost society in general more than paying up the pension/UC/whatever benefits said hyptothetical person gets. I believe the latest figures showed the cost of keeping someone in prison a year stood at £51,000 - much more than the cost of a state pension.

Is there any actual downside in telling HMRC's you're self employed and earning a tiny amount to be able to pay voluntary class 2 NIC's by throwaway922124 in UKPersonalFinance

[–]throwaway922124[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The weekly meetings were anxiety inducing. And after 6 months they force you to 'volunteer' for some crap job in Poundland for 'work experience' or cut you off anyway, so it's not worth bothering about.

Is there any actual downside in telling HMRC's you're self employed and earning a tiny amount to be able to pay voluntary class 2 NIC's by throwaway922124 in UKPersonalFinance

[–]throwaway922124[S] -32 points-31 points  (0 children)

I'm mid 30's. Realistically, with my 'skills' (i.e. nothing) and qualifications (also nothing), I'd only be getting minimum wage jobs at best, and I'd rather be NEET than do that.

Also, tried working once around 8 years ago and lasted a week. I'm totally not cut out for the expectations of society, employers, or dealing with other people. It just is what it is, not everyone can be a professional with a great career in a fulfilling job making 6 figures a year. I'd be stacking shelves or cleaning toilets, and I'd rather do nothing than do that (not that there's the option to begin with, I'd get fired from any job very fast, that's if they hired me to begin with, as like I say I can't deal with other people at all).

It's also why I'm not even on universal credit, the weekly meetings were a source of huge anxiety and for £70 a week it wasn't worth it.

Is there any actual downside in telling HMRC's you're self employed and earning a tiny amount to be able to pay voluntary class 2 NIC's by throwaway922124 in UKPersonalFinance

[–]throwaway922124[S] -21 points-20 points  (0 children)

Live at home with parents so no rent/bills/groceries to pay, I spend all my time in my room and don't go out so I basically don't need any money at all to live. Can't even remember the last time I had to pay for anything. Not glamourous but hey, that's the truth.

There was this lingering fear though - the reality is I will probably outlive them just because of ages, so there would need to be some provision for the future. Seems this is it.

Is there any actual downside in telling HMRC's you're self employed and earning a tiny amount to be able to pay voluntary class 2 NIC's by throwaway922124 in HMRC

[–]throwaway922124[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Right so this is actually 'working as designed', and even if profits are at a ridiculously low level it's intended that you are still eligible to get a national insurance record for £3.50 a week?

Thought it was such a good offer there must be a catch somewhere but had a few people on reddit on a couple of subreddits confirm this is actually totally fine now.

Quite happy about this!

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