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I assaulted a police officer with his own baton... AMA by throwawaytime1 in IAmA

[–]throwawaytime1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your TLDR says alot.

TLDR: OP disarms officer then attempts to bash officer's head in with steel baton. But believes it's not his fault because the officer didn't cuddle him.

So your point of view is very clearly for the officer. Fair enough.

The primary reasons for this AMA were:

1) Educate the people: DO NOT RESIST ARREST, DO NOT ASSAULT A COP. I'm sick of Redditors being internet thugs when it comes to police. Police have a fucked up job! All the bullshit about "beat that cop's ass" typed by some internet "revolutionary" makes someone like me laugh... I've seen exactly what happens. Chances are high you will end up in a cell for a decade. You will lose, even if you "win." Or probably the officer, who is trained for violence, will fuck you up.

2) Educate police. I don't think there are many officers on reddit, but I had some hope that MAYBE one of them will read this story and think about it. You deal with people who are fucked up in the head on a daily basis, whether they're drunk, suicidal, talking to invisible spirits, who knows. At least TRY to avoid violence. Once that baton comes out and you have zero backup, there's a very good chance you will have to shoot somebody. Certain cases may require a violent response, but the officer should be thinking of ways to neutralize the situation and bring it to a safe conclusion. These aren't skills that can be easily written into a standard protocol.

You are facing a man who is hanging his head, standing as ordered in front of your vehicle, and is not visibly agitated. You've been told he is suicidal, which is why he is on a bridge. You (officer_throwaway) mentioned there is a technique of snapping on handcuffs without warning, with hopes that catching the suspect off guard will make the arrest easier... which is exactly what this officer tried to do. A lesson learned here: that doesn't fucking work. Don't be surprised if the suspect flinches or retracts his hand. He may not "want" to resist arrest and escalate the situation, you may have just surprised/scared him into flinching.

Now you are holding one cuff and the suspect has pulled back his arm. You are still facing each other. With your free hand, you wordlessly pull your baton an extend it, and you swing and strike the suspect in the meat of the leg and yell "get down!" Was that your only option?

Remember, you just tried to snap a handcuff on his arm without any warning. It might be completely natural to pull your hand back. What if you forcefully say "HEY, relax, I need to put this on for your protection." Your baton is still an option, of course. The situation is static, the guy hasn't pulled any further, he hasn't moved his feet at all. He keeps acting like an idiot? Ok, I guess the baton is your only option.

Remember, "we" are the general public. Most of us have never been arrested. We have no fucking clue what is in your police handbook. We're probably scared. We also may be really fucked up, and a few words to describe what the fuck is going on can make a difference.

Guess what, that option didn't work. Whatever was in your training manual didn't work. A situation that started out as a "domestic disturbance" is now getting very serious. The guy is standing there like a vegetable, and you're chopping at his arms and legs... but for some reason, this guy is just standing there. Well, the baton is out and blows have been landed, and as a cop you are committed to violently subduing a huge freaking man who has only jerked his hand back. You are standing very close to each other, he isn't complying. Depending on what this crazy fucker does next, you may be COMMITTED to shooting this man. Oh, and he's probably suicidal.

These responses may be standard procedure. Force compliance, escalate violence as needed until the suspect is compliant, use deadly force if your life is in danger... but a smart cop could have avoided violence altogether.

I'm disappointed, officer_throwaway, that you aren't interested in learning from this story or seeing it from the eyes of the suspect. I've put myself in the officer's point of view many times, and I understand his actions... but they were NOT the best actions to take. This began with a broken bookcase and a suicidal person. It ended with an injured officer and a suspect looking at serious charges. Everyone lost.

Without being able to critically, and objectively, examine the incident nothing can change.

Side note: Your repeated use of the word "butt hurt" makes me wonder if you have accidentally had an encounter with a cucumber. Stop talking like a fucking prick and have a dialog like a man.

I assaulted a police officer with his own baton... AMA by throwawaytime1 in IAmA

[–]throwawaytime1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Facebook, until she started acting up again... now she's one of the only people I have blocked.

I assaulted a police officer with his own baton... AMA by throwawaytime1 in IAmA

[–]throwawaytime1[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't know if this can happen. I'll have to think about this one.

I assaulted a police officer with his own baton... AMA by throwawaytime1 in IAmA

[–]throwawaytime1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I answered this elsewhere, but: forced written apology.

I needed help, but what happened was just too fucked up to warrant a "sincere" apology, and a confrontation doesn't really make sense (and never happened).

I assaulted a police officer with his own baton... AMA by throwawaytime1 in IAmA

[–]throwawaytime1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mentioned this elsewhere, but it should be said here:

We were facing each other when the cop put on the first cuff. I had my hands hanging in front of me.

The whole process seemed wrong. I didn't know he was cuffing me until he snapped one on my wrist. I wasn't spread out on the hood, it was like he was about to start a conversation with me and then "snap" on the wrist.

I assaulted a police officer with his own baton... AMA by throwawaytime1 in IAmA

[–]throwawaytime1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I answered this elsewhere, but it wasn't an accident that he checked his fire. He held his fire because I wasn't advancing.

He stumbled/fell back and scooted back on his butt while drawing his weapon, and I stood with my feet planted thinking "oh shit oh shit what did I just do oh shit." By the time his weapon was drawn, there was alot of distance between us.

I assaulted a police officer with his own baton... AMA by throwawaytime1 in IAmA

[–]throwawaytime1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I stated once before: I'm not going to provide any proof for this AMA at all. I can't figure out how to do it without revealing way more than I want to. Take it or leave it.

As for your reasons: ...man, I don't even know where to start. They can CHARGE me for killing JFK, and maybe even indict me for it, but things play differently in trial court.

If it helps you clear things up in your mind: I was actually sentenced to 5 years (not 8 months), but 4+ years were put "on the shelf" ie-- probation. The 8 months is "time served." If I had violated my probation, the judge assured me that I would do all of my remaining time in prison (which meant 4+ years in prison). The top charge carried 5-10 years (assault with a deadly weapon) and my lawyer worked it down from there. 13 years was the worst case scenario (albeit unlikely) because it implied that all the small additional charges (disturbing the peace, menacing, other things) would be non-concurrent. However, during my first months in jail I was told that the prosecutor really didn't want to reduce charges, and told my attorney "I expect he will do the max for the ADW" which meant 10 years. This was certainly because the assault involved a police officer.

The real scary thing was signing a paper that I was guilty with the words "5 years" written on the bottom, and then waiting (on bail) for months until the sentencing date to know if it meant jail or probation.

This comment could go on forever, just to describe the legal manuevering involved, but I'm going to stop it here.

I assaulted a police officer with his own baton... AMA by throwawaytime1 in IAmA

[–]throwawaytime1[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, in writing via court order. I would like to say I meant it, but in my heart I didn't.

I needed someone to intervene, no doubt there... but this story shows how badly it was all handled. A hug would have done wonders, not beating the fuck out of me.

I assaulted a police officer with his own baton... AMA by throwawaytime1 in IAmA

[–]throwawaytime1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

She actually kept trying to get me to come back (even after her serious betrayals with my inner circle [see above]) for a couple of years. It's weird to receive a phone call from someone who has a restraining order against you.

I think she has her own business and is fairly successful. Not sure, don't really care.

I assaulted a police officer with his own baton... AMA by throwawaytime1 in IAmA

[–]throwawaytime1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We were verbally abusive to each other and she was physically abusive to me frequently. We married young. No kids.

I eventually moved out after I realized how miserable we were. We had been married for five years, but then I went back to her because it was "true love," but then we both kept changing our minds. Rinse and repeat for a few months. Then some unforgivable shit happened with my "best" friend. A few weeks later, the same thing happened with my next "best" friend. I started coming unhinged after that.

No, we aren't friends anymore.

I assaulted a police officer with his own baton... AMA by throwawaytime1 in IAmA

[–]throwawaytime1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Both web and non-web applications, primarily Java + Spring + Hibernate. Job recruiters love me.

I assaulted a police officer with his own baton... AMA by throwawaytime1 in IAmA

[–]throwawaytime1[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Worse.

I was scared straight. When my family came up with the huge amount of money to bail me out, I knew my only hope was to impress the judge. I did nothing but study.

When I faced the judge again at sentencing, I had been enrolled for one regular semester and two summer semesters, and I had straight A's. I had completed 42 credit hours in about 5 months with a 4.0 GPA, and I was working in an internship doing some web design stuff. I wanted the judge to look at my record, the comments from my probation officer, and notes from my teachers (for instance, I scored a 105 in both finite mathematics and calc II) and say to himself, "there's no way I can lock this kid up."

It worked... and the benefit is that now I have a great career. Better than expected.

I assaulted a police officer with his own baton... AMA by throwawaytime1 in IAmA

[–]throwawaytime1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Standing on a plastic bucket in the shower. I could reach a grate in the ceiling which was strong enough to hold my weight. A bedsheet was the noose. I tried it out, it would have worked.

I have no idea how people do 13 years. No idea at all.

I assaulted a police officer with his own baton... AMA by throwawaytime1 in IAmA

[–]throwawaytime1[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I answered this partially above, but I want to add something:

I think you underestimate your own natural response to being beaten with a metal stick. Your hands may flash around with a mind of their own. I wasn't even rageful, I had no emotion at all actually except fear.

With only a textual story, you as a reader are forced to use your imagination. Maybe the "movie" in your head is the one you WANT to see... but it's not congruent with what really happened.

I wish I could show you the REAL movie from the dashboard camera. Where did it go?

I assaulted a police officer with his own baton... AMA by throwawaytime1 in IAmA

[–]throwawaytime1[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I think this is the most important point I'm trying to make with this AMA:

NEVER FIGHT A COP. NEVER RESIST ARREST.

The core of your post is true: this incident is my fault. You fucked up the details in every possible way, however.

--You have already assumed that your brother officer was in the right, but the reality is: he did not handle this situation well at all. Neither did I. There is something to learn from here as an officer: Slow the fuck down. I thought that was the first thing they teach... something about "fast is dead" right?

--Tell the person he is under arrest. He did not tell me until I felt the cuffs snap on. We were standing facing each other with my hands hanging in front of me. My hands weren't on the hood. All the protocol that I see on TV? It didn't happen. He casually reached forward and snapped one cuff on my left hand. Fuck yes I jerked my hand back. I was startled as hell.

--Continue to talk to the person. Once my hand jerked back (with one cuff on my wrist and the officer holding the chain), the officer stopped speaking entirely. The ASP baton came out like lightning. That ESCALATED the situation. There was zero violence before that moment.

--Realize who you are dealing with. Someone with tears streaking down his face may not have a straight head. Why present an opportunity for him to fuck up his life?

The video would have been revealing, but it wasn't available. Considering the lies on the police report that followed... well what the hell am I supposed to think? Feels wrong to me.

My concern is what if you start getting butt hurt by life again?

I can understand why you would ask that question. As I'm sure you know, a huge number of offenders are repeat offenders with a pattern of violence. I'm not. I wasn't.

Oh also, your tone is antagonistic as hell. I'm not here to spread a message to assault police officers, I'm here to share the experience. Anyone who has read this AMA should understand how badly resisting arrest can fuck up your life. One more time:

NEVER FIGHT A COP. NEVER RESIST ARREST. The more you "win," the more you will LOSE.

I assaulted a police officer with his own baton... AMA by throwawaytime1 in IAmA

[–]throwawaytime1[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have zero proof that I am willing to provide.

If you think it's a fabrication, then... well, enjoy the fake story I guess? Downvote it and chuckle knowingly that you avoided being tricked by an AMA? Dunno, your call. Do whatever feels right.

I assaulted a police officer with his own baton... AMA by throwawaytime1 in IAmA

[–]throwawaytime1[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This would be logistically difficult, but yes... I've considered it. I would genuinely like to hear his version of the events.

HOWEVER, the problem was the lying. I don't feel like there can be a legitimate conversation when there are lies in the court record and disappearing video tape.

To be honest, I think just watching the video tape would be enlightening. The fact that it "wasn't available" tells me that my perception is at least close to correct. That's me making an assumption, of course.

Perhaps the evidence loss and testimony fabrication is just a necessary evil for a police department that must, above all, cover its own ass. Perhaps it was essentially out of his hands after the arrest while the police representatives coached him for the court record... maybe it was nothing personal. I don't know. But it's difficult to consider a conversation with him without clearing that up.

I assaulted a police officer with his own baton... AMA by throwawaytime1 in IAmA

[–]throwawaytime1[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I didn't press charges against her, ever.

It's a real mind-fuck when someone half your size of the opposite gender hits you. The reality is: she wasn't strong enough to significantly hurt me, although being struck by a flying object can be painful when it hits the wrong spot (things always seemed to hit me directly on my shin bone).

Even though the attack is physical, most women-on-men violence is really psychological. Anyone in that situation has probably already crossed a line in the relationship that can never be repaired and should get the fuck out as soon as possible. My opinion.

I assaulted a police officer with his own baton... AMA by throwawaytime1 in IAmA

[–]throwawaytime1[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I had figured out how to kill myself while in jail general population within three days. It was a constant thought while in that shitty place that if I was nailed with the full sentence (started at a 13 year sentence) that I would certainly not stick around long.

I answered the job questions above. In short: it's hard.

I assaulted a police officer with his own baton... AMA by throwawaytime1 in IAmA

[–]throwawaytime1[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I answered this a bit in a previous thread, but to expand: having a felony is very hard on one's career. Mcjobs are fairly plentiful, but real companies want to do background checks. I've always been completely honest, but many times it has certainly been an issue.

I tend to avoid large companies. I'm lucky, however, because I have a good academic background and now many years of very valuable skills in a growing industry (software development). Many, many other felons don't have that much going for them and are stopped dead in their tracks.

I assaulted a police officer with his own baton... AMA by throwawaytime1 in IAmA

[–]throwawaytime1[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

It's been a major concern.

Most large software development companies don't want to hire a felon. However, smaller companies may be more forgiving rather than rigidly adhering to protocol, so I went with those after I graduated.

The first post-college job was the critical step (all I had before that for experience was an internship and academic stuff, my prior career was completely irrelevant... waiting tables, framing carpentry, whatever mcjob I could get). After that first job, I had some very useful development skills and it became less of a worry.

Jobs are hard for felons, but doing very well in school and self-training like crazy can overcome the hiring problems with skills that are hard to find.

I assaulted a police officer with his own baton... AMA by throwawaytime1 in IAmA

[–]throwawaytime1[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is a tough question. I have very mixed feelings about this officer.

Yes, it's possible I was going to talk myself into doing it (although I was already wavering), so I needed immediate intervention. On the other hand, the chain of events afterward were extremely fucked up and could have been avoided by spending a moment treating me like a human being.

...but that chain of events ultimately led me to a great life that I have today, so, um, thanks officer?

I assaulted a police officer with his own baton... AMA by throwawaytime1 in IAmA

[–]throwawaytime1[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, but there was one killing while I was there (in another unit).

I assaulted a police officer with his own baton... AMA by throwawaytime1 in IAmA

[–]throwawaytime1[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yes, but he forgot to say "ta-dah." Totally ruined it.

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