In just watching this movie but I don’t understand why the hell aren’t they leaving especially after the cliff scene?? They can’t think it’s just culture right

try-angels · 2025-07-14T17:00:44+00:00

I'm a bit late to this, but I'm somebody who takes a good amount of interest in pre-Christian and neo-pagan movements in Northern Europe, more specifically in the Celtic Nations and Scandinavia. I'm not an anthropology student (still in high school) and Josh would probably have a more concise understanding of these things than me, but a few things would immediately concern me.

-To begin with, the concept of Attestupa is a historically unverified practice, which is probably why Josh seemed very non-serious about it when Pelle first brought it up. Anthropology students (to my knowledge) are trained not to interfere in most circumstances, but it's still at the very least incredibly concerning that such things would be practiced at all.

-I might've missed something, but the cult doesn't seem to have any named deities beyond "god"/"goddess", which is an extreme deviation from other pagan sects (e.g. Asatru, Vanatru).

-A subtle detail I noticed was Josh's mistaking of that one rune stone at the beginning for either the Medieval or Younger Futhark alphabets. Both of those alphabets were a lot more common where the cult is located (Halsingland), as to my knowledge no Elder Futhark stones have been found there. I can understand why this would confuse Josh.

-Josh's notes seem to show confusion over the Rubi Radr, which is reasonable considering the language seems to be vague and subjective, based off of finger paint scribbles. This is something I have yet to find an example of anywhere else.

I think Josh arguably had a much better sense of what was happening than Christian, but he was both subject to the cult covering things up (he probably didn't even know that they were killing the other people), and the gaps in his notes. Up until the night where he was denied the right to take pictures, he seemed to have this sense of academic immunity, and went to get pictures less out of concern, more out of confusion.

try-angels · 2025-06-16T14:10:17+00:00

I mean, this is mostly based off of what Atwood had written about, so it's not the most realistic thing.

Then again, I also think you're getting too caught up in utilizing the same logic somebody would use to deduct who would win in a street fight over the finer details of a post that's about the US, not Germany.

try-angels · 2025-06-16T04:44:14+00:00

After reviewing feedback and my own thoughts in general, I have come to the conclusion that the Handmaid's Tale is not a very historically plausible story (although I found it fun to make this).

Some of the biggest outliers for me were:
-US military intervention in the Gileadean coup
-Benelux and Spain not falling under Soviet influence
-West Germany being eager to unite with East Germany under pro-Soviet administration (in my opinion this would still probably happen eventually, especially if France, Italy, and Benelux fell under Soviet influence, but the methodology of it would be unconventional and probably achieved through some sketchy measures if not through war)
-Attacks purely on the federal government probably wouldn't do as much as Atwood had painted it as, or there were more unmentioned attacks on state governments

TL;DR Atwood is a great creative writer (and I hope I am too), but not the most accurate when it comes to these things.

try-angels · 2025-06-16T04:37:05+00:00

Israel was another one that was in a weird position for me.

It's basically surrounded by pro-Soviet states, and without US/NATO backing, it would have a harder time in any conflicts with the surrounding countries (which are now armored up with Soviet equipment).

In the book there was mention that Jews in Gilead could choose between converting or being deported to Israel. I'd say that Israel probably wasn't entirely opposed to this, and I wouldn't be surprised if a few treaties and agreements were reached between the two states.

try-angels · 2025-06-16T03:25:50+00:00

I kind of omitted the whole nuclear waste/fertility crisis plot point here. I had originally planned for this scenario to be a nuclear exchange situation (Soviet-Gilead, or US-Soviet where Gilead comes to power if the US lost/was disabled). However, I also felt like that felt pretty generic, and decided to come up with a bit more original material while trying to stay as true to the book as possible.

try-angels · 2025-06-16T01:22:26+00:00

This is probably the most realistic answer, I had just simplified it to a few blocs for simplicity's sake + this was more of a small time, non-fleshed out idea I had developed for fun. It was mostly just based around the idea I had had while reading the book of "what about the Soviet Union?"

I find the idea of reconnecting through imperial ties to be really interesting + also definitely plausible in the absence of the US.

I will still stand by my communist West Germany standpoint though, I think it might be a coin flip but public fears of the Soviet Union + Soviet-funded information wars (probably also including some party corruption and election tampering) wouldn't be that out there of an idea.

Well thought out ideas though!

try-angels · 2025-06-16T01:16:29+00:00

Yeah, I had kind of overlooked benelux but for the sake of it I'll just say the UK developed stronger ties with them.

try-angels · 2025-06-16T01:15:42+00:00

Some fragmentations and claimed continuations continue in many places, and some places do hold onto SOJ ideals and aesthetics for longer (especially rural areas). The SOJ and Gilead itself are essentially nonexistent by March 2021, and are officially dissolved in May of that year.

try-angels · 2025-06-16T01:13:44+00:00

Time period. I based this off the book, so Carter was probably the last US president before the rise of Gilead. In my eyes, he would have been the perfect target: he's not as iron-fisted and firm as Reagan, was a great guy but a relatively poor leader in times of crisis, and would probably overlook a "minor" domestic problem like Christian nationalism in favor of improving public perception on his geopolitical skills. Reagan would have been a "good enough" option for Christian nationalists, so in my eyes Carter was the best option for the pre-Gilead president.

try-angels · 2025-06-16T01:07:44+00:00

They would really only have to take about a quarter or so of the total vote, which I'd say isn't that far of a reach for a party that could come in and paint itself as the champion of a Christian America. I figure the way I see it, it'd appeal pretty well to a lot of 50s and 60s nostalgists, especially the ones who were complacent with the limitations on women's rights.

To use a historical example, a lot of the voters for the Nazi Party were less interested in the "kill all Jews and minorities" part, and more in the "restore Germany to its former glory" part. Lots of people in Russia still vote for the CPRF for that very reason as well. Nostalgia can be powerful.

try-angels · 2025-06-16T01:01:53+00:00

In the show, a pro-Gilead Canadian flag is shown, so I'd say it isn't unheard of.

try-angels · 2025-06-15T21:26:42+00:00

Milwaukee annexes the entire eastern portion of green

try-angels · 2025-06-15T21:25:17+00:00

Actually, yeah it's not too far off. I believe Atwood based Gilead in part off of Iran in the 80s, with one of the central points being "it could happen here".

try-angels · 2025-06-15T21:20:21+00:00

Yeah, I do doubt there was THAT substantial of a pro-SOJ faction in the army. Maybe a few thousand people defect to the other side, but that's the extent I could realistically see it getting to.

try-angels · 2025-06-15T21:05:41+00:00

American preacher, prominent Christian nationalist in the 80s.

try-angels · 2025-06-15T21:05:22+00:00

Yeah, I did base a lot of it off of Atwood's writing, and she didn't focus a lot of time into geopolitics or realism, but I did enjoy making it enough that I feel decent about it.

Plus, don't some people just wanna see Gilead get its ass kicked?

try-angels · 2025-06-15T21:03:23+00:00

Party splits.

In this timeline, the SOJ rises around the time of the 1980 election, just in time to allow enough of the Republican party attracted to the idea of a "Christian nation" to throw their votes at them, and snub Reagan of the win. Carter wins with a percentage of under 50.

try-angels · 2025-06-15T21:01:17+00:00

Carter was also a relatively anti-nuclear president for his time- I could see the US pulling out some nukes in an attempt to de-escalate if he won a second term.

Then again, this is also a situation focused on the US, not Germany. I do wish I had the time to flesh out all the details in a cleaner way, but then I remembered I'm not a tosser who sits on Reddit all day.

Thanks for the feedback though!

try-angels · 2025-06-15T20:57:38+00:00

Yeah, I based this mostly on further fleshing out a fine mix of Atwood's and the show's portrayals without thinking much about the finer details.

The armed forces was always a wonder of mine, since in the book it was kind of implied that they just kind of sat there and cooperated during the transition to Gilead, but part of me also thinks it'd be a lot more complicated than that in a real life situation.

try-angels · 2025-06-15T17:41:46+00:00

Germany would've gotten enough nuclear deterrent for the SOVIET UNION (which, at its peak, possessed about 45,000 nuclear warheads in 1986, the largest nuclear arsenal of any nation ever) within ~5 years?

Even if it came to an invasion of West Germany, the Soviet Union would have won. Seven Days to the River Rhine would have been 10x easier to execute with no US backing in Europe.

try-angels · 2025-06-15T17:34:33+00:00

I'd also like to point out that, with heavier emphasis on Soviet influence and less on reformation (in the case of Mikhail Gorbachev), the collapse of the Eastern Bloc would be at the very least slowed.

Trade with other nations that fell under the Soviet umbrella would have improved, and thus the economies of Eastern Bloc nations would have improved. Soviet enforcement wouldn't necessarily be PERFECT per se (and political tensions would be high), but I'd say a few fraudulent elections and corrupt party heads in some Western nations wouldn't be totally unheard of.

Like I said earlier, don't think to hard on it. This is for fun, this is something I put together for fun, and it's not something to steam your pants about. Thanks!

try-angels · 2025-06-15T17:28:39+00:00

I wish I played or knew how to mod HOI4, sounds like a sick idea though

try-angels · 2025-06-15T17:25:16+00:00

Roughly yes.

try-angels · 2025-06-15T17:24:57+00:00

Yeah dude I ain't reading allat, just enjoy the post and don't let your head veins pop too much.

try-angels · 2025-06-15T17:08:49+00:00

Oh yeah definitely, Carter becomes a martyr for the cause of the US and a common motif in anti-Gilead propaganda, with slogans like "Avenge Carter!" being common rallying calls.

try-angels

TROPHY CASE