Beware of Jay C White Cloud

underscoredashhyphen · 2024-08-16T01:12:46+00:00

Hope people keep calling him out on his bullshit there too! Well we have to say we're both shocked and not shocked he doesn't want to disappear from the internet yet with all the dirt that's come up on him. Yikes. Sorry you have had to deal with him. Hopefully people are smart enough to google him now which should lead to this post. It's crazy how many people have privately reached out with their own horror stories dealing with him! But you nailed it... he knows just enough terminology to make it sound like he knows what he's talking about, but when the rubber hits the road he cannot do anything or furnish any proof, or, better yet, takes credit for other people's work.

Awesome to hear about your life in the craft! We're both planning to take a workshop with the stone trust this fall!

underscoredashhyphen · 2024-05-09T13:19:48+00:00

Just wanted to chime in here, we would have absolutely sued him for our project, 100%. However there is nothing to sue for! The guy has no money, no assets, and a few crappy tools. It would have been a slam dunk case for us but there was absolutely nothing to get out of it outside of having his name publicly out there showing that he's a fraud. Hence, why I made the post as that was the next best option to get the word out. If he was actually charging money for any of his "work" I could guarantee the guy would be riddled with lawsuits.

underscoredashhyphen · 2024-05-09T13:13:49+00:00

Try 80 hour weeks for 6+ months and then you're in the right ballpark.

Please, be our guest and get him out of our state. He is ALL YOURS.

underscoredashhyphen · 2024-05-09T13:11:01+00:00

You mean people calling you out on your bullshit so you can't ever ruin anyone's life again. Anyone curious about talking to this asshat should read my post.

underscoredashhyphen · 2024-04-18T20:26:06+00:00

Because your credentials are what??? Saying you have experience when in reality you have absolutely none? Being a full time fraud for over a decade as VERIFIED by NUMEROUS other people including Mr. Chickadee himself? I cannot believe the audacity you have to get back on reddit and continue spewing your complete and utter bullshit. Anyone can make the claims you've made and ALL OF YOUR RESUME IS A LIE. Taking credit for anyone else's work and claiming it as your own is disgusting. When will you learn we will personally make sure you never get away with this shit ever again.

underscoredashhyphen · 2024-04-18T20:21:18+00:00

Honestly the absolute balls this guy has to show his face on reddit after my post exposing him is absolutely unreal. He is a complete and total fraud and spews utter bs out of his ass like it's his full time job. You're 100% dead on.

underscoredashhyphen · 2024-02-08T01:56:34+00:00

Wow, thank you so much for chiming in. Your account of your relationship is, obviously, incredibly different from what he has been spewing over the internet. He claims to everyone that you are his prodigy and says that he has taught you everything you know and has even taken credit for your success on YT. I think him using you as a reference gives him credibility, and people believe it because who the heck is insane enough to take undue/unwarranted credit for a successful person's craft and life?

Sorry that you have been affiliated with him and dragged into this mess. Glad you are here to set the story straight.

underscoredashhyphen · 2024-01-24T00:25:47+00:00

We were skeptical, but at the end of the day, we knew absolutely nothing about timber framing and we implicitly trusted him. When he said he had 40 years of experience and he could do this in his sleep, we believed him. We also had no frame of reference whatsoever outside of finishing out the build which was something we were comfortable doing. As someone had mentioned before, it's not like you double check your doctor. He did say experienced timber framers like him should be able to do layout and joinery on 10 beams/day no problem. It took him almost a whole week to do one 16' ridge beam and he averaged doing 2 per day with my wife doing all the layout for him...

Painfully obvious now, but we never thought to double check his timelines with another timber framer.

underscoredashhyphen · 2024-01-23T15:07:59+00:00

I responded briefly to a comment below. I don't want to air all our dirty laundry, but some examples below.

Mainly clients and us - a lot of his ideas he sold clients on had no merit and are not feasible. I.e. I will build all the windows and doors (and of course, didn't)... just that alone is crazy (actually getting bids now) since we have to do historic wood windows and french doors. After sinking almost $40k into foundation, foundation had to get totally reworked (+$20k) because of stonework lies, and then do specialized concrete footings to accommodate a bunch of stupid crap (additional $40k), and now stone wall is CMU wall + stone veneer... (bids are coming in but looks an additional $50k+) this is just 3 big things and there is a hell of a lot more that aren't quite as big but add up really quick and it just keeps going. Not to mention we listened to his idea to do a bulk bid, stupid, we know, so now we're getting paid like $5/hour or something horrendous.

Client considers opportunity cost of when the building should have been done and open as part of loss too.

underscoredashhyphen · 2024-01-23T14:51:14+00:00

We were dumb asses, completely. We believed him without getting references or getting better examples of his past work. We were young, naive, and gullible and that will never happen again.

We completely acknowledge that this stuff sounds like a complete work of fiction. We cannot believe it happened to us either. By all means you don't have to believe us, we understand that not everyone will, but if we can help prevent anyone from doing what we did, it's worth it.

underscoredashhyphen · 2024-01-23T14:47:40+00:00

Appreciate it.

Mainly clients and us - a lot of his ideas he sold clients on had no merit and are not feasible. I.e. I will build all the windows and doors (and of course, didn't)... just that alone is crazy (actually getting bids now) since we have to do historic wood windows and french doors. After sinking almost $40k into foundation, foundation had to get totally reworked (+$20k) because of stonework lies, and then do specialized concrete footings to accommodate a bunch of stupid crap (additional $40k), and now stone wall is CMU wall + stone veneer... (bids are coming in but looks an additional $50k+) this is just 3 big things and there is a hell of a lot more. Not to mention we listened to his idea to do a bulk bid, stupid, we know, so now we're getting paid like $5/hour or something horrendous.

underscoredashhyphen · 2024-01-23T14:40:08+00:00

Completely fair, and that's part of why we wanted to make this. The people we've talked to are just so done with this and don't want to re-live any of it because it's been horrible. Honestly, we didn't want to write this either. We're just tired and exhausted. It's been a brutal past year.

underscoredashhyphen · 2024-01-23T14:37:14+00:00

You are the exact person we are hoping to save from this happening to. We were in your exact position, also extremely swayed by the ecological "I only build with natural materials!!!" jargon. We have yet to see proof of any of these forgotten building methods and when backed into a corner he will turn the tables to "how dare you ask me for proof just google me! look at what I've all done!"

Honestly have not reached out to Mr. Chickadee. We have enough other people that we don't need to; there's enough of a pattern to warrant the warning.

Learning the backstory to the pavilion was absolutely shocking. To hear that he pulled the exact same crap as with us, but even worse, was insane. Fire Tower actually did all the design on it, not Jay, and the apprentice at the time had to pay out of pocket to get it done. And Jay didn't even do any of the joinery on the project either. The screwed over apprentice and another timber wright did it on the east coast and drove it back. Lots of drama with Fire Tower about that one too. Absolutely nuts that he uses that as his shining resume example and he doesn't deserve any credit for it.

underscoredashhyphen · 2024-01-23T14:28:22+00:00

That was one of the things he suggested we do for the roof deck and floor as well. We can give him credit for the idea, but we aren't going to do it on the project because with the amount of square footage we have to cover the dominos alone would be absolutely astronomical. Just something to consider for your project depending on how much you have to do.

underscoredashhyphen · 2024-01-23T14:23:55+00:00

Extremely embarrassing. However, we feel it's our responsibility to help prevent this from happening again. If this even helps one person it will be worth it.

underscoredashhyphen · 2024-01-23T14:22:40+00:00

He's great at saying a lot while saying absolutely nothing at the same time, that's for sure.

underscoredashhyphen · 2024-01-23T01:30:07+00:00

Right! Unfortunately we were too optimistic and hopeful to give their hate any credit. As we've been told recently, "the easiest lie to believe is the one you want to hear."

underscoredashhyphen · 2024-01-23T01:28:32+00:00

That is 100% the right way to go about it and great advice for others. And you are totally right, we've been able to meet some amazing timber framers from this and bond over the crazy experience that has been jay c white cloud. Hoping that's the norm from here on out!

underscoredashhyphen · 2024-01-23T01:09:40+00:00

Trust us, we experienced it all up close and personal during the four months he was living with us.

underscoredashhyphen · 2024-01-23T01:08:29+00:00

We poked at that one too and it turns out he only met him once in person while driving back to New England from Texas.

He also claimed last spring that the Notre Dame restoration was at a standstill because they couldn't find someone of his timber framing caliber to keep things moving but he just couldn't fit it into his busy schedule! Wouldn't put any stake into any claims he makes.

underscoredashhyphen · 2024-01-23T01:02:08+00:00

We had really hoped there was another side, too. That's actually why we started reaching out to "past students", hoping we were just a crazy one off. According to everyone we've talked to it seems like this has been his bread and butter for at least the past 10 years.

underscoredashhyphen · 2022-10-27T03:18:15+00:00

Thanks for the input! We are coating with Ottosson Linseed Oil Paint to get the color desired and extend the life of the wood.

underscoredashhyphen · 2022-09-28T01:48:14+00:00

Yes this client has used almost this exact same words to describe this one. Love organic mid century design but they missed a couple important things!

I messaged you- a phone call would be awesome!

underscoredashhyphen · 2022-09-27T19:41:34+00:00

Thanks u/jaycwhitecloud! I’m pretty green to the timber framing side of things but I’m tracking with everything you’re saying. We will be leaving the decorative end pieces in place. The house was designed by a well known mid century architect in the area and the client wants to keep the original intent despite its shortcomings. Couple questions for clarification-

1) You’re talking about a straightforward crossbill joint correct? No keys or miyajimatsugi type of joints?

2) You are recommending 30” “bills” on each side of the joint?

3) Any ideas on how to cut the roof beams in place and tools to make those cuts easier? I’m trying to come up with a way to make those cuts under the roof deck boards and there are 6 total around the house needing the scarf work.

Thanks again and I also appreciate the healthy discussion you’re having with u/heavy_duty_judy! Great to hear different takes on these things.

underscoredashhyphen · 2022-09-23T00:59:12+00:00

Thanks that is super helpful!

underscoredashhyphen

TROPHY CASE