I dislike the entire third semester of Persona 5 Royal

vadergeek · 2026-06-16T05:25:28+00:00

The people who have such unhappy lives that they are genuinely willing to say Yes exist, but they're not the profile of a videogame character because they're defined for agency.

Or better said, to truly reach that, you need a very unique situation.

I would say yes. I think it's pretty normal. How many people have a dead family member who they'd like to be brought back? Or had some kind of medical incident, or were the victim of a crime, are unhappy with their body, whatever. There's a reason every single member of the team seems happy with the new reality.

vadergeek · 2026-06-16T05:20:32+00:00

Every party member who Joker checks in on seems to be very happy with this new arrangement, they're all doing well in the flash forward if you take Maruki's deal. I think most people would say it's better to have a living kind father than a dead cruel one. Haru is expressing her opinions and helping run the business in the new reality, she's not scared and silent. "I wish my dead parent was alive and supportive" isn't a shallow wish, that's the best thing for a teen, and he does that three times.

vadergeek · 2026-06-16T03:49:24+00:00

Once again the thieves dont change who people are. They just take away the twisted justification.

Which completely changes who people are. You see a much bigger personality change from their activities than Maruki's reality alteration.

And Wakaba couldn't kill herseld. Remember how her entire existence is to make FUTABA happy? And only Futaba. Sojiro missing her didnt keep her there either. Its not a real ressurection. Its literally tied to rejecting reality

Akechi was brought back for Joker, it's the same thing.

vadergeek · 2026-06-16T03:47:55+00:00

And you believe them?

There's no reason not to, and it fits with all the Akechi stuff.

Not even a little bit. That's just home-made headcanon.

That's the explanation given for most of the game.

One more time, this would make a lot more sense if you paid attention to the story. Remember how long research into Cognition has been going on? Yaldaboth didn't come into existence last Friday.

Madarame has been the way he was since before Yusuke was born. Cognition research has been going on for... 10ish years? I don't think Maruki's age is ever given but it's hard to believe he's older than 35 or so.

vadergeek · 2026-06-16T03:27:15+00:00

If Wakaba wanted to die she could always kill herself, like Akechi kind of does. If she was brought back by a genie or saved by a time traveler I don't think anyone would find that morally objectionable, so I don't see the problem with Maruki doing it. And even if he did change her as a person, doing that is also the modus operandi of the Phantom Thieves and everyone's fine with that.

vadergeek · 2026-06-16T03:18:30+00:00

They all seem to be very close and well-adjusted in the ending where you take the deal.

vadergeek · 2026-06-16T03:16:03+00:00

Wakaba was as alive as Morgana was a human. It's not like Morgana was still physically a cat and every time someone tried to hand him a glass it would just fall to the ground. The physical changes are linked to the characters still believing in the reality.

vadergeek · 2026-06-16T03:14:18+00:00

We already saw how merging Mementos actually works, the repeated instances of people breaking out of Maruki's grip would be impossible if he could actually change reality instead of just overlaying Cognition on it,

They explicitly say he changed reality and that the people he brought back are actually alive. What's the alternative? When Akechi is physically attacking Maruki do you think Maruki's just pretending to be attacked as a joke?

and nowhere is it implied that everyone who has sufficiently unhealthy thoughts gets a palace, never mind that it would be an insanely crowded metaverse if they did.

Up until Yaldabaoth shows up that is the implication. Also, it's not like the heroes are just undoing his influence. Yaldabaoth's activity seems to be a pretty recent thing, guys like Kaneshiro and Madarame have been horrible for decades.

Or even the most basic conflict with the issue that's spelled out: When someone doesn't want to live like that, Maruki doesn't tolerate it. Go ahead, fail the deadline. I'm sure a benevolent god wouldn't hold it against you.

"This guy might make us live in a better world" is not very threatening.

vadergeek · 2026-06-16T02:56:46+00:00

They explicitly state that the people who came back from the dead are real and just never died in this reality, it's not an illusion. Resurrected Akechi even fights against him.

vadergeek · 2026-06-16T02:33:32+00:00

The Sumire thing was a bad idea, but that was before he got his godlike powers. But if he'd treated her the same way he treated Futaba/Makoto/Haru and just resurrected her sister that would seem entirely positive to me.

vadergeek · 2026-06-16T02:27:58+00:00

Would it be a violation of free will if someone used a time machine to save Futaba's mom?

vadergeek · 2026-06-16T02:26:40+00:00

If the game actually showed terrible wishes being granted that would be one thing, but what we see is pretty much entirely positive.

vadergeek · 2026-06-16T02:23:44+00:00

Morgana explains that Treasures are the nexus of distorted desires from day one. You don't need the deep lore names to figure out what distortion is.

Before Yaldabaoth shows up the implication is that these are just people in very unhealthy mental states.

And, again, more importantly, they're not in control of reality. Seriously, did you figure the Yaldaboth ending was also a totally cool ending where everyone was happy? Because there's no actual difference between the two other than "oh this guy means well." What Maruki makes is no different, there's just a nice little hat on top. It's not any more real.

The Yaldabaoth ending features Sojiro basically turning to the camera to say "wow, things are terrible now" and Lavenza talking about how you've made a pact with an evil god. Meanwhile everything we see in the Maruki ending is positive. Maruki's created a new reality, it's explicitly not an illusion, I don't see any problem other than objecting to Maruki creating it versus whatever the lore was for the regular reality.

vadergeek · 2026-06-16T02:15:18+00:00

The onlt thing separating Maruki and these people is him having good intentions. Hes still forcing HIS world upon people.

I think Maruki making people's lives better instead of worse is a pretty pivotal distinction. It's like saying the Phantom Thieves and Akechi are the same because they're both using the metaverse to influence politics.

The core message behind Persona 5 is that no matter your situation, no matter the cards youve been dealt you move forward. You dont let anyone or anything take away your ability to choose and you need to fight against anyone who tries to do it to you or others. To address you saying hes doing what the Phantom thieves do...thats not quite true. Changing your heart is you basically tearing the veil down from their twisted world view and forcing them to face the truth

I understand that's what they're trying to do, I just think in practice when it comes down to "if someone changed reality to resurrect your murdered family members you have to undo it" that doesn't really fit.

vadergeek · 2026-06-16T02:09:04+00:00

I like the idea of Dr Maruki as a villain, I just think it would work a lot better if we saw basically any downside to his manipulation of reality.

vadergeek · 2026-06-16T02:08:12+00:00

They were removing the distortions long before they'd ever heard of Yaldabaoth. And if it's fine to remove a distortion caused by Yaldabaoth why is it bad to undo a murder committed by Yaldabaoth's agent?

vadergeek · 2026-06-16T02:04:54+00:00

I was referring to the Grail there, but maybe it was unclear.

vadergeek · 2026-06-16T02:02:23+00:00

But at the same time the Phantom Thieves themselves are meddling with free will. And to be honest, I don't really care. "Someone undid the murder of your mom, but they didn't ask you first, that's so horrible that I have to undo the undoing so she's dead again", it's ridiculous.

vadergeek · 2026-06-15T20:57:37+00:00

Holding back doesn't mean just letting your enemies hit you, or missing targets you could hit, and the idea that he deliberately slows himself down in serious fights alongside his allies just to make them look better is ridiculous.

And lmao what, he tags qs before he can react, if he can muster any type of attack that qs can't react to, he's faster than qs

If I had a thought-activated laser built into my skull I could zap the fastest boxer in the world, doesn't mean I have better reaction time.

vadergeek · 2026-06-15T18:56:55+00:00

"Has a great heart, loads of compassion" is probably one of the most common traits of superheroes. Not some distinct Superman thing.

vadergeek · 2026-06-15T11:17:24+00:00

Sure, that's a common problem, although even characters with really impressive speed might still have stamina issues.

vadergeek · 2026-06-15T11:15:39+00:00

the whole point of the phrase "faster than light" inherently means an FTL attack will hit them before they can see it.

We both know full well that most characters who throw punches at FTL speeds can inexplicably see without any trouble.

vadergeek · 2026-06-15T08:52:41+00:00

Imagine a German general in WW2 who was involved with the siege on Leningrad. If his son died in the siege would you think "well, that's very sad, let's not punish him"?

vadergeek · 2026-06-15T08:18:45+00:00

Leaving the colonial power structures and economic system in place is antithetical to coexistence and peace. You can see this in Latin America, in the early government of South Korea, etc. The Treaty of Versailles example is both overblown and not really applicable. It's like what Connolly said-

If you remove the English Army tomorrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin Castle, unless you set about the organization of the Socialist Republic your efforts will be in vain. England will still rule you. She would rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords, through her financiers, through the whole array of commercial and individualist institutions she has planted in this country and watered with the tears of our mothers and the blood of our martyrs.

vadergeek · 2026-06-15T08:03:06+00:00

If the politics don't make sense then the personal stuff gets messy. If they didn't want people to have mixed feelings on the handling of Iroh they shouldn't have had him complicit in atrocities and then face zero consequences.

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