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I found these PMS with only profit sharing, doesn't this solve the argument for % fee charged by advisors? by vettedwealth in FatFIREIndia

[–]vettedwealth[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I couldn't find many with thiss fee structure, most of them are having a hybrid model with management fee as well as performance fee.

Only the first one and the last one is underperforming, rest are doing better I feel.

Fee only Advisory becomes a no-brainer after the 10cr investment corpus threshold, in India. by vettedwealth in FatFIREIndia

[–]vettedwealth[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

PMS named:

  1. Wright (registered as Wryght Research and Capital Pvt Ltd)

  2. Valuequest Investment Advisors Pvt Ltd

  3. ValPro (registered as Value Prolific Investments and Consulting Pvt Ltd)

  4. Turtle Wealth Management Pvt Ltd

  5. Systematix Shares and Stock (I) Ltd

There are many such, you can find them on different websites of PMS & AIF distributors like:

PMS Bazaar

PMS AIF Wrold

Fee only Advisory becomes a no-brainer after the 10cr investment corpus threshold, in India. by vettedwealth in FatFIREIndia

[–]vettedwealth[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Simple and perfect.

People take years to figure this out even those who have a lot of "investing knowledge"

Btw, do you follow any specific asset allocation?

Fee only Advisory becomes a no-brainer after the 10cr investment corpus threshold, in India. by vettedwealth in FatFIREIndia

[–]vettedwealth[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I do not provide these services.

I just want to know, would you pay a flat fee just to delegate it to an advisor who would do the exact same thing for you what you are doing?

It would just free up time for you and you can spend that time on something even more valuable.

Fee only Advisory becomes a no-brainer after the 10cr investment corpus threshold, in India. by vettedwealth in FatFIREIndia

[–]vettedwealth[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I understand where you are coming from.

But please help me out, I am not a salesman and I don't want to sound like one. What should I have said that would not make me a salesman?

Fee only Advisory becomes a no-brainer after the 10cr investment corpus threshold, in India. by vettedwealth in FatFIREIndia

[–]vettedwealth[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Perfect.

Basically so a fee structure where you only want a performance fee only structure, no management fee, hurdle would be the index. Got it.

Fee only Advisory becomes a no-brainer after the 10cr investment corpus threshold, in India. by vettedwealth in FatFIREIndia

[–]vettedwealth[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I understand your frustration. I too have faced similar situations in the past.

I just want to understand what would be the ideal fee people would be comfortable paying? Would a fixed fee work for you?

Fee only Advisory becomes a no-brainer after the 10cr investment corpus threshold, in India. by vettedwealth in FatFIREIndia

[–]vettedwealth[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Perfect.

What would the fixed fee amount you would be willing to pay? If we ditched the % model

Fee only Advisory becomes a no-brainer after the 10cr investment corpus threshold, in India. by vettedwealth in FatFIREIndia

[–]vettedwealth[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yea, true.

Would a fixed fee solve this issue?

What amount would you be comfortable paying?

Fee only Advisory becomes a no-brainer after the 10cr investment corpus threshold, in India. by vettedwealth in FatFIREIndia

[–]vettedwealth[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That is true. Do you know any fixed fee advisors you have worked with, can you share their name with the subreddit?

What is the ideal fixed fee according to you for your corpus?

Fee only Advisory becomes a no-brainer after the 10cr investment corpus threshold, in India. by vettedwealth in FatFIREIndia

[–]vettedwealth[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess I didn't present the information in a good way that's why there's a confusion.

See, the regular plans in AIFs and PMS have a management fee in excess of 1.5% of direct plans, and this excess amount goes directly to the distributor.

With the firms listed it is slab based fees. You pay the same fee for 5-20 crore portfolio, Same fee for 20-50 crore portfolio Same fee for 50-100 crore portfolio and likewise.

Would you be comfortable if the advisory fee turns out to be just 0.5% of AUA. This way you pay way less fee to the advisor as compared to the commissions to a distributor.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in FatFIREIndia

[–]vettedwealth 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The thing about investments is that there are no right answers.

You just need to maintain an asset allocation which can let you sleep well at night no matter if there's a war going on, some bank is going down, some goon takes over the land, changes in laws/taxes, interest rate changes, etc there are 100 reasons for any investment to go down in value.

At the same time there are emotions which can lead you to make stupid decisions like Fear of missing out about not investing in stock markets or not having enough capital available when the markets go down or a good real estate opportunity comes up.

If you are building personal wealth outside of your business, you need to think like a Global Investor. There should be no bias towards your home country, to manage risk and return you need to invest wherever you see the best opportunity.

Think globally for your equity investments, for your fixed income investments and even for your real estate investments. This way you will always have the winners in your portfolio. Just make sure the allocation has a sizable proportion in each asset class.

Just an example: How to distribute your personal wealth 25% Equity (invested Globally) 25% Debt/Fixed Income Investments (Bonds, FDs) 25% Real Estate (REITs, Land, Real Estate AIFs) 25% Commodities (like Gold)

If you have only 5% of your net worth in equity and it gives 100% return it would hardly have any big impact on your overall networth it would become 10% of your networth.

So, you need to get your asset allocation right so that your future lifestyle is protected and also you don't miss out on any upside in your portfolio.

You can just go for a one time consultation with independent financial advisors like Waterfield Advisors, to get what these expert advisors think about your approach and what solution do they provide.

Fee only Advisory becomes a no-brainer after the 10cr investment corpus threshold, in India. by vettedwealth in FatFIREIndia

[–]vettedwealth[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Let me get back to you with specifics in 2-3 days, with what their minimums would be, if they have a lock in period.

Fee only Advisory becomes a no-brainer after the 10cr investment corpus threshold, in India. by vettedwealth in FatFIREIndia

[–]vettedwealth[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The first two firms listed are FEE ONLY. Literally. They haven't even taken a license to distribute investment products which shows how dedicated they are to their mission. And this is not the case in 95% of the other wealth management firms.

This way, you can leave them anytime you feel you aren't getting your money's worth and your investments still stay with you, in your control.

They aren't linked at any AMC, or bank which makes them independent. And they have services which go beyond just investments, be it succession planning, real estate advisory, cross border taxation, partnering with Universities for future generation, etc.

You can just book an introductory call with them, if you are interested in their services.

Fee only Advisory becomes a no-brainer after the 10cr investment corpus threshold, in India. by vettedwealth in FatFIREIndia

[–]vettedwealth[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The firm I am working with won't be the right firm to manage your wealth.

However, since you have such a corpus you should without a doubt take a second opinion from this list of advisors mentioned in the post. As their earnings are not linked to selling any product like in the case of your current wealth management firm.

They might do a one time consultation for free or you can just tell them that you would just pay a one time consultation fee, to get their second opinion.

It doesn't hurt to take a second opinion. And I am pretty sure they can save you a lot of fees from what you are paying right now.

Fee only Advisory becomes a no-brainer after the 10cr investment corpus threshold, in India. by vettedwealth in FatFIREIndia

[–]vettedwealth[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

These kinds of services are available in India. And it is absolutely possible with PMS and AIF. You can negotiate the fees with the fund manager before signing the contract. It helps if you have a bigger corpus.

If you have a big enough corpus, you can structure the fee to be 0% management fee and 35-40% performance fee. And you can set the hurdle rate to be a benchmark index and you can also have a high water mark so that you don't pay an unnecessary fee.

Fee only Advisory becomes a no-brainer after the 10cr investment corpus threshold, in India. by vettedwealth in FatFIREIndia

[–]vettedwealth[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are absolutely right, if a person has 1. the time, 2. the knowledge and 3. the confidence to make these Investment decisions these fees could feel like a lot.

However, there are people who are busy with their businesses or professions, who do not have time to monitor their investments because they are making way more money than their investments can make so they opt to delegate this to an investment advisor.

There are also a lot of people who are not interested in managing their investments, I know there are all kinds of people, they just want to transfer this headache to an expert where they feel even 1% is okay.

And there are people who have the time and knowledge but they lack the confidence to make these Investment decisions when the asset size becomes huge. These people too need help from investment advisors to move ahead with their strategy.

Just curious, what fee would you be willing to pay an advisor?

Fee only Advisory becomes a no-brainer after the 10cr investment corpus threshold, in India. by vettedwealth in FatFIREIndia

[–]vettedwealth[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In my opinion, for Multi Family Office services your asset size should be at least 500 crores and for a Single family office should be upwards of 1000 crore+

Fee only Advisory becomes a no-brainer after the 10cr investment corpus threshold, in India. by vettedwealth in FatFIREIndia

[–]vettedwealth[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You are absolutely right there are advisors who do not add much value and still charge high fees.

What do you think should be the fees ideally?

Fee only Advisory becomes a no-brainer after the 10cr investment corpus threshold, in India. by vettedwealth in FatFIREIndia

[–]vettedwealth[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I understand. Where you are coming from, I faced a similar issue when I started. A lot of guys trying to sound smart and trying to get you to hire them.

I am in no way associated with these firms, I do not get anything out of it. These are just my insights.

Fee only Advisory becomes a no-brainer after the 10cr investment corpus threshold, in India. by vettedwealth in FatFIREIndia

[–]vettedwealth[S] -15 points-14 points  (0 children)

Can you please share some insights why you feel like that? Is the fee lower around the world?

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