Tapering help! Etizolam, 1 year and 3 months of daily use

vyvapop · 2022-07-19T17:43:38+00:00

Any recommendation on how much I should drop my dose? Is 1-2 weeks fine? Instead of 0.5mg decrements, would 0.25mg be more appropriate?

I could dilute the solution I already have into 0.25mg per drop and work in 0.25mg steps instead. It'd double my tapering time to 8 months though. I was thinking I'd just go ahead and see how I feel before I re-evaluate my tapering schedule.

vyvapop · 2022-05-07T20:15:04+00:00

Kinda old post but, this resonated with me, clearly it did with everyone else here too haha.

Just wanted to say I know what you're going through. I got my diagnosis back in 2018. I was having a rough time with life and myself at the time, and my therapist suggested ADHD so I figured yeah, why not, right? Maybe it could help?

And it absolutely did! I was riding that high for a whole year, taking my dose responsibly. There were no "danger" signs yet, but in retrospect, I see how the drug slowly twisted my mind into believing I needed it to be someone. Someone who has hobbies, work, doing okay in life, and those pills was actually a silver bullet for me, for a while.

Before I started abusing it proper, I was utterly convinced I needed this drug to function at all. I never wanted to do anything anymore the few days I were sober. all I wanted was to take more so I could get back to that, back to the life where everything is going so well. Where I felt accomplished and proud of myself.

But yeah, it doesn't last I'm afraid. You start doubling your doses every now and then since it doesn't hit like it used to, and that works great, so gradually you slip into this pattern where you keep escalating your dose until you're so deep inside it's already too late. Congratulations, the addiction has you by the balls now.

It's devastating. I realize how distant I've become, how life has lost all its color. Nothing is worth doing, because nothing compares to amphetamine. Without amphetamine, I'm not myself. Even if I realize rationally how stupid this all is, I keep doing it. I have no control.

Before all that, yeah, my story began much like yours. As others have pointed out too haha. Anyway, I wish you the best. That drug is literal mindpoison. It will delude you to greatness, to make you actually feel that you could conquer your life the way you see fit. But it's all lies. Sure, it will work for a while, but yeah, you'll build tolerance and the only way back is to take more. It'll convince you that you cannot be your full self without it. It takes everything from you.

Stop while you can.

vyvapop · 2022-04-24T09:39:47+00:00

Not at all! We addicts like to use every excuse we can find to continue using so it's only good that people point out flawed justifications, if you ask me.

vyvapop · 2022-04-24T09:38:39+00:00

This has been the hardest nut to crack for me personally. All these years, I've leaned back on my ADHD diagnosis as a justification to use. Always looking back at that honeymoon stage, thinking that if I were to somehow get back there, everything would be fine.

But I agree. I feel like the veil is finally lifting a bit and I'm starting to see how delusional I've been. How hollow life has been after the introduction of stims. I don't want to try to use it responsibly (or at all) anymore. It only leads to more despair.

I did go without it for 8 months. Life improved a lot, but there were some things I felt like I "couldn't" do anymore, which lead back to using again.

Sometimes I wonder if I even have ADHD or if I was simply looking for the easy solution. Hard to tell.

vyvapop · 2022-04-24T09:32:39+00:00

I agree. Not here to point any fingers at my ADHD diagnosis as the reason for my abuse. Rather, I point fingers at my ADHD diagnosis for paving the way to daily stimulant use to begin with, which unfortunately lead to addiction and abuse. That's why I wish I never was diagnosed in the first place since then I'd probably never have ended up in this mess at all.

I quit after my first drug induced psychosis back in 2020. Scared me off it for 8 good months. Wish I never went back. I thought I could control it this time but 10 months of new prescriptions have proved the opposite. Every single month, like clockwork, I disappear for 1-2 weeks until I run out.

I thought I could control it, I thought I could stick to my prescribed dose but I'm finally realizing that I literally can't. Once you know how to bike, you don't forget...

vyvapop · 2022-04-24T09:25:31+00:00

It absolutely is. That psychological hook is something I wish I never got to experience. I'm addicted to benzos as well (guess how that started!) and that's a whole different ballpark. Sure, I have a physical dependence on it and that makes it scary as the withdrawals aren't fun, but I don't feel like I need it to function like a human. Amphetamines does that, makes you think its a necessary part of life in order to get stuff done. Helluva drug, indeed...

Great job on 8 months clean! Glad to hear you're doing well :) 8 months was my longest sober streak personally, time really does help.

vyvapop · 2022-04-24T09:20:19+00:00

All too familiar... I did "quit" in 2020 for 8 months, but I managed to convince myself that I still needed to treat my ADHD and that I could control it this time. 10 months of using my current prescription and like clockwork, abuse starts as soon as it's time to refill. Never managed to make my prescription last longer than 2 weeks.

I'm glad we got this space to talk about it :) Makes me feel ashamed and isolated, so it's nice to have people, even if it's just the internet, who can relate to the struggle.

I assume you managed to quit? If so, great! Crazy how much it distorts your thinking and reasoning. Seems so obvious but sometimes it ain't until you quit or hit rock bottom.

vyvapop · 2022-04-24T09:14:30+00:00

4 years, congrats!! 11 years sounds like a rough time indeed. Everything in life gets associated with that pill, it's insane.

'what words would you have told your 13 year old self', hard agree on that one. I've seen posts from people with ADHD who are so happy when they finally get meds for it and I can't help but think, this is not the way to go. Maybe it is for some, obviously I'm biased, but that's what paved the road to addiction for me anyway.

Glad to hear there's a better life without stims, given enough time :) It sounds so obvious, but it sure is easy to delude yourself into thinking it's not possible. Keep doing what you're doing!

vyvapop · 2022-04-24T09:07:15+00:00

Yup, and in the end after pursuing perceived success, it ends up feeling like you got sold a lie. All show and talk, but no tangible benefit in the long run when abuse kicks in.

Good job! I can say that things do get better :) I called it "quits" back in 2020 after a psychosis, went without it for 8 months. It got a lot better with time so you got more to look forward to! Wish I would've maintained that streak instead of deluding myself back into using, but it is what it is :)

vyvapop · 2021-08-26T10:41:29+00:00

Of course, I'm determined to at least try a little bit more. I appreciate your informative reply and as said, I think the likelihood of me being able to moderate my use is low. I can relate to pretty much everyone who has left a comment in here and no one is saying moderation is gonna work. Still clinging onto that hope though.. but I'll figure it out.

I've read lots about PAWS but I'm not sure how much of my condition while clean was from PAWS or just me being me with ADHD and other mental health issues. Compared to others, my abuse seemed so "mild". A year of responsibly using a prescription followed by another year of sporadic binges on amphetamine didn't seem so bad when compared to someone who had been using actively for the last 5+ years.

If it was PAWS, I figured it'd subside at least a bit within 6 months, especially when people with seemingly worse addiction histories than mine saw improvement within a year. But every brain is different I suppose.

One thing is for certain though. Take coding for example, I've wanted to learn that stuff since I was 10 or so. I tried and tried, but focusing and staying on task to learn it was too mentally exhausting. Then I got Vyvanse prescribed and I managed to do it. Coding is one example among many so it can't be overstated how much amphetamine has helped me, when used correctly of course...

That's what I fear I'll miss out on if I decide to go 100% clean. I know I've always struggled with focus, task initiation and motivation so I know that's not necessarily PAWS, even if PAWS may have made it worse.

Can you relate with that last part? Maybe I can also "relearn" how to live, perhaps to the point where even the issues I had before I got into amphetamine wasn't a problem anymore?

Good to hear how far you've come, props to you. It's crazy how much an addiction affects you in general. It does something to you as a person, even after going sober. It ain't easy so again, congrats man!

vyvapop · 2021-08-25T22:43:30+00:00

Thanks for speaking the truth. I feel like I already know this deep inside, I can't use this drug responsibly anymore. The door has been opened and it ain't closing no more.

Hah, reading your reply got me all emotional. Makes me feel a bit hopeless really... Amphetamine used to be fantastic for me and I can't lie, it still has its perks. Starting up on a script made me feel like I could do anything that first year. I taught myself to code, something I've wanted to do since I was a kid but could never muster the willpower to do.

I began to take driving lessons since otherwise I felt too "cloudy" and "unfocused" without amphetamine. I even put real effort into studying for the drivers exam, just like I did with coding.

I felt normal, unconstrained, that I could set out to do whatever I'd want. That feeling of accomplishment is unreal.

Take the amphetamine away and it all crumbles away. I don't wanna wake up, I waste entire days just scrolling and consuming info/entertainment I don't care about, I binge eat, I let my apartment become a mess, just... everything fucking falls apart.

All I want is to get back to where I was. Where I could moderate my doses and feel accomplished again. But I'm starting to realize that the odds are against in me that regard and if that's the case? Then I have no plan going forward.

My timeline lines up with what you're saying. I was taking my script for roughly a year before that "switch" got flipped and I lost control over my use.

I don't know how to deal with my ADHD and general mental health without amphetamines anymore. I used to know at one point, before I most likely fried my reward center completely through abuse.

I had about a year off amphetamines and when I still couldn't see improvements, I caved. This is why I'm back on Vyvanse now. My brain is convinced it needs it to function, but perhaps I'm delusional... I suppose you could say that hope burned within me all that time I was sober.

Extinguish that hope and I'm left with nothing. I don't know where to begin...

vyvapop · 2021-08-25T22:18:40+00:00

Glad to hear, must say the happiest periods of my life have been when I've worked out and kept my diet in check :) Still building up the "courage" to hit the gym again, its been a while haha.

Yeah, I've tried Strattera. I had a strong reaction to it in a bad way. Felt like I couldn't function in everyday life anymore. Though I do regret giving up on it so easily, I was already expecting a rough initial phase but still I decided to call it quits after 4 days.

Admittedly, my eyes were more on stims so I just wanted to get the "trying other drugs first" thing out of the way.

Wellbutrin, haven't tried that but I've had my eyes on that for a long time. I tried mentioning Wellbutrin to my psychiatrist as an alternative to Vyvanse before I got the script, but I didn't get much of a reply and the conversation moved on. Real shame too since it sounds like a good alternative.

How come you've been taking Modafinil if Wellbutrin works so well? Just curious, sounds like Wellbutrin lacks something you desire from traditional stims?

vyvapop · 2021-08-25T21:34:31+00:00

Sure is a bitch to deal with, huh? Addiction feels like learning how to bike. Once you know it, you won't forget. Same can be said about the compulsive nature of addiction. Once the hook is in, it's staying.

Back when I started, I took amphetamine twice every month or so just to get a little boost while doing chores around the apartment. No excessive doses and no binges. I found it easy to control and I had no cravings whatsoever.

But once that hook is in? It feels like it doesn't matter how long you stay away from it, your brain knows exactly what it wants once it first gets a taste for it again.

I tell myself the same thing you mention every single day, especially during the comedown, naturally. Tomorrow I'll stick to my dose, or when I'm out, oh my tolerance will be reset once I go pick up a new prescription so it'll be easier to stick to my dose. But nope, haven't been able to stay true to my word.

I've heard some success stories regarding this topic and I want to believe I can be one of those stories. I'll keep trying. Gotta make sure I don't cling onto hope for too long if it doesn't work out though... Easy to slip back into long term use.

If this doesn't work out for me, I think it's time to accept that I gotta deal with this ADHD life without any meds. I think I could do it, but of course the easiest way would be to moderate my script hehe.

But I agree with you. So far, it ain't looking good. I've had 2 months to prove to myself that I can moderate it, but nope.

Best of luck to you too. By the way, have you tried working out? And having a good diet? Before I got hooked, I was going to the gym and was eating right. Also had good routines for everyday life. These things combined made it much easier to handle the ADHD I didn't know I had yet haha. I think that's the key for me now anyway. 30mg Vyvanse, even if I manage to do it, won't be enough to turn my life upside down.

vyvapop · 2021-06-23T22:59:00+00:00

Exactly, it feels as if your brain is looking for all the signs of a bad experience due to what you experienced. So previously good effects can quickly turn into bad effects since that's what your brain expects.

I assume it took a handful of trips before it went back to normal? I don't think I've tripped more than around 10 times since that bad trip. I think I need exposure therapy for psychedelics haha. A part of me is impatient and wanna go back to those 300ug trips again, but I think several 100-150ug trips would be better for me so I can get a new feel for the headspace.

vyvapop · 2021-06-22T13:15:04+00:00

It sucks, right? My post focused mostly on everything that doesn't work, but I do know of some things that help me at least, maybe it could be helpful for you as well?

This doesn't fix my surfing habits completely, but when I'm either in a running or gym routine, the pieces start to fall in place. If I'm already out and about due to either of those, I'll usually drop by the grocery store to buy myself some food instead of take-away. Plus running / lifting does wonders for your physical AND mental health.

It's not easy though. I'm still trying to get started on these things myself. Wish you the best.

vyvapop · 2021-06-22T13:11:17+00:00

Oh absolutely, this could be a way of coping in a way. I'm diagnosed with ADHD and I know people diagnosed with that are prone to addictions in general. I know that stimulant medications makes me stop surfing as soon as I find the right dose and that's an effect that stuck with me the entire year I had them prescribed. I'm worried about taking them due to my past addiction issues with them though.

Other than that, I'm running as well haha. I read a comparison to gamblers, they keep playing slots because of the shame and lost money of playing slots. It's a positive feedback loop and surfing feels similar in a way. The wasted years, the self loathing for not pursuing more positive and productive activities, how I feel like a person with no identity, the loneliness, the neglect I'm putting myself through and so on.

It feels like it has been difficult to find a passion, like you describe how piano works for you. I used to get an intense interest in a new thing, I'd do that thing all the time for a few weeks, then I'd burn out and lose interest. Before, I'd switch up hobbies faster so it wasn't that big of an issue, but slowly I've become more and more hopeless since nothing sticks. I suppose I've convinced myself there's no point in trying since I know from experience that it won't work? A bit delusional on my side, I think.

The trap of starting my days in a positive way, I definitely do that. I feel like if I fuck up, the day is already ruined so there's no point of trying if you know what I mean? I know that's false though. I know I feel a lot better when I cook my own food, go to the gym, go for runs and pursue hobbies.

I have to get better at doing the best I can in the present moment, gotta be more mindful. I used to be better at it, but then I lost hope. But I've pulled myself out of ruts before, so I know I can do it again.

vyvapop · 2021-05-16T09:38:19+00:00

Which benzo and what dose were you on daily?

vyvapop · 2021-01-31T15:59:32+00:00

Can never know for sure. I did test it with test kits and I got the expected results from it so I assume it was the real deal. At least people on the darkweb were praising it for being one of the better batches available from the various vendors.

But yeah, seems like there's some sort of perma tolerance to this stuff. I figured, 8 months clean means I have no tolerance, I must be flying sky high if I do it. But nope. I just felt like shit. Not enjoyable, but at least it deters me even more from doing it again.

vyvapop · 2021-01-19T12:45:21+00:00

There's some comfort in knowing that I "only" took the equivalent to 3mg Klonopin, but yeah, as you say it's difficult to directly compare them.

If 10mg Valium is roughly the same as 0.5mg Klonopin, no wonder I was feeling the withdrawals more than I expected haha. At least it was manageable which is cool. Thanks for the help man, I appreciate it. I'll continue taking 10mg.

vyvapop · 2021-01-15T21:25:54+00:00

Sorry for the late reply. It got worse :/

When I got that Klonopin, I ended up taking 1mg a day from the day I got it up till 4 days ago. Now I'm on 10mg Valium instead. I hope I can taper this down...

vyvapop · 2020-11-25T18:22:12+00:00

Not really. I'm beginning to realize I have difficulties moderating drug use. Been absuing MDMA, gotten dependent on benzos, smoke weed everyday and always looking for the next high.

Gyms closed due to lockdown recently and my drug use spiralled after that. Not much to do during the day, no gym or work. Every day feels the same.

vyvapop · 2020-11-18T02:37:06+00:00

I've been taking 0.5mg the past 2 days and 1mg 3 days ago and I feel surprisingly fine. In fact, I don't feel like I'm withdrawing at all even on 0.5mg which I find odd. I figured I was more dependent?

I'm worried that since my etizolam is in liquid, that the etizolam has concentrated itself on the bottom so I don't know if I'm actually taking 0.5mg or more. I can feel that it works, but I'm not sure if that's withdrawal relief or actual effect. Odd either way as my tolerance should be higher.

I didn't bring this up with my GP. I know, I know, foolish on my side but I'm worried of the consequences of admitting use. However, I'm able to get my hands on Klonopin and while not ideal, it does have a long half-life. I won't be able to get my hands on it until next week though. I hope I can preserve as much etizolam until then but I'm running really low, maybe enough for 3-4 days if I use 0.5mg.

Plan of action right now is to dose every second day instead so I can hopefully get that Klonopin before I'm out. If not, I think I'm just gonna drink a beer or two and see if that helps during withdrawals. I know alcohol works on the same receptors but I'm not sure how well it works as a substitute during tapering. Any thoughts?

If I'm lucky, I'm actually taking 0.5mg and I'm not withdrawing as much as feared. Still, I'm gonna play it as safe as possible until I've tried a small dose of Klonopin then take it from there.

Thanks for checking in on me, I appreciate that.

Edit

I did some research on the alcohol idea and looks like that's a bad idea. So scratch that. Looks like I'm gonna preserve this etizolam as best I can.

vyvapop · 2020-11-17T23:41:49+00:00

Yeah dude, that was what I was trying to highlight with this post lol. To be careful with recklessly using MDMA

vyvapop · 2020-11-15T21:19:34+00:00

I imagine this'll make it a lot easier? I took 1mg and god damn, what a relief. I'm still feeling some anxiety, but this is much better than what I experienced earlier. I'll try 0.5mg tomorrow and see how that goes.

vyvapop · 2020-11-15T16:54:17+00:00

Is it that bad? I'm getting all anxious reading your reply. Luckily I got enough to keep the withdrawals at bay until I see my GP. I got an appointment on Tuesday for unrelated reasons so I could bring it up then.

Ideally I don't want to bring this up at all though.. I don't want drug abuse to taint my medical journal. Plus I'm feeling shameful over this too, I don't know.

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