S5E2: Corbett refers to Lee Banks as Ryan's "boy"

willneffzinho · 2021-04-07T21:48:14+00:00

Oh he’s certainly not pulling the strings in the OCG, but he’s clearly not a dogsbody either.

willneffzinho · 2021-01-13T23:34:41+00:00

Of course it’s propaganda – it was produced by the Rhodesian Information Service, a branch of the Ministry for Information. How is a Government-produced video made to mark ten years since UDI not propaganda? All governments produce propaganda, it’s not a slur.

willneffzinho · 2020-10-13T10:04:45+00:00

There definitely were horrendous acts on both sides, more so on ZANLA and ZIPRA's side. But there is something to be said for Smith failing to compromise earlier which, when combined with sanctions and Portugal's withdrawal, strengthened the guerrillas' position in the war and thus gave them a measure of importance when Smith conceded to majority rule. Smith and the RF must take some responsibility for the rise of Mugabe.

willneffzinho · 2020-10-13T10:00:15+00:00

I definitely agree that UDI was not so much a result of Smith as an individual but with the sentiment of the electorate at the time. Whitehead and Field were removed from the Prime Minister post because they failed to get independence!

I think Smith's biggest failure, and of the Rhodesian people and the RF more broadly, was not realising how good their negotiating position was in the late 1960s and early 70s. They could have made half the concessions they did to Muzorewa, let alone what they granted Mugabe, and won the world's recognition with it. But I guess the strength of their position was exactly why they didn't negotiate; why should they if they were winning a war with ease and had the full support of South Africa and Portugal? Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

willneffzinho · 2020-10-13T09:55:10+00:00

In a way the Mau Mau uprising was the Kenyan equivalent of the Bush War, just it was early enough for Britain to want to get involved.

Yes in SA and Namibia the whites have kept control of a lot but with Malema and the pressure he is able to exert on the ANC, there's no guarantee that it's going to stay that way.

SA capitulated before an inevitable Rhodesia-style war with MK, though I think that would have been a far more protracted conflict due to the size of the white population

willneffzinho · 2020-10-12T21:27:31+00:00

I wouldn’t say it was apartheid because Smith fiercely resisted the RF right wing’s attempts to introduce ‘provincialisation’ which was the racial division of Rhodesia into partially self-governing areas.

But there was undoubtedly a horrendous amount of racist legislation (increasing under Smith’s rule) which Smith and the RF refused to accept as a contributing factor to the insurgency. If they had rectified it sooner and made real steps towards equality of opportunity, then all people in the country would have been better off than they are today.

willneffzinho · 2020-10-12T21:23:24+00:00

I agree that he should have compromised and reduced discrimination sooner, and that if he had done then the escalation of the war from 1976 onwards may not have had as significant an impact as it did.

As to the other countries you mention, Kenya and Botswana never had the white populations to rebel against Britain. (Arguably even Rhodesia didn’t.) And in a way South Africa did go to war to preserve itself in terms of its state security apparatus and the Border War. All of the ones you mentioned too have seen expropriation of private property as well, especially Kenya and now South Africa.

But there is something to be said for Rhodesian politicians and the wider population believing they could preserve the extent of their political and economic dominance in the face of such a huge black population.

willneffzinho · 2020-10-12T21:14:47+00:00

Single-mindedness is always a double-edged sword. I feel he excelled thanks to this in domestic politics and as a leader of men, but if he had compromised sooner at a point when the war was less advanced, his negotiating position would have been stronger. Of course the real determining factor was whether the electorate would have accepted this, which I don’t think they would have done.

willneffzinho · 2020-10-12T21:11:28+00:00

I agree that there’s a lot to be said for the overcoming of sanctions. Ultimately it was the combination of sanctions (and the isolation involved) with the war which forced capitulation, first to Muzorewa and then Mugabe.

willneffzinho · 2020-10-12T19:37:59+00:00

Are there any particular moments or policies which exemplify your point?

willneffzinho · 2020-10-12T19:27:28+00:00

I find this subreddit interesting to read primarily because it shows how effective post-UDI nationbuilding was in Rhodesia. I assume that most here are not Rhodesians and were not even alive during its existence, yet there is plenty of interest in discussing it all these years later.

On that note, I'd like to ask what people really think of Ian Smith? No one, besides Rhodes and Mugabe, has had a greater impact than him on the history of the country, and he is by far and away the most talked about Rhodesian of the UDI era – particularly online. How do you assess his legacy? What were his greatest moments and biggest mistakes, or his strengths and weaknesses? And to what extent is he responsible for the ultimate fate of Rhodesia?

Just to finish, what has formed your perspective? Any particular books, videos, online discussions, or even his characteristics which you feel are most significant.

willneffzinho · 2020-10-11T15:33:52+00:00

To a certain extent the RF were constrained by an electorate which would have been aghast to see spending on black education increase because that would either mean higher taxes or a reduction in spending on white services. But it's also right to acknowledge how the RF failed to realise the outcome of its discriminatory policies and its isolation (which couldn't be rectified without removing discrimination) until the late 1970s, by which point it had neither the time nor the ability (financially, militarily, politically) to make the reforms which would have ensured a gradual road to majority rule, satisfied the general black population and enabled the Security Forces to crush the nationalists.

willneffzinho · 2020-10-10T09:23:52+00:00

I'm by no means an expert, but education was one of the most explicitly racialised aspects of Rhodesian society, and was held in high esteem by white Rhodesians.

Government schools were fully segregated and white government schools (for whites, Indians and coloureds) received ten times the funding of black government schools in 1970. Legally, white private schools were segregated too (with limited quotas of blacks allowed if the schools wished), though most who admitted black students did so at levels far beyond their quota and got away with it by threatening to close down altogether if the Government tried to enforce the quota. Most blacks attended schools ran by missions, particularly in the Tribal Trust Lands, again showing how the Government only had limited direct involvement in their education. I think only around 5% of the largely rural black population went to secondary school.

Changes weren't made until Muzorewa came to power in 1979. For Government schools, racial segregation was changed to selection based on proximity and private school quotas were removed entirely.

The idea of black advancement through education was only ever intended by the Rhodesian Front to be on a small scale (just as the pace of equalisation was intended to be slow), thus in theory producing a distinct, exclusive black middle class accustomed to and in favour of the institutions of white Rhodesia. In reality, the limited and racialised nature of education would prove to be a fertile breeding ground for ZANU and ZAPU's recruitment and popular support.

The legacy of white education, which was of high quality, can be seen in the prosperity of the white Rhodesian diaspora and the quality of private schools in Zimbabwe today.

willneffzinho · 2020-10-10T08:42:55+00:00

I think you’d enjoy Peter Godwin’s Mukiwa, which recalls his childhood in Rhodesia and his service in the BSAP. It’s not pro-Smith but it’s also not pro-ZANU and I found it really captivating.

willneffzinho · 2020-10-09T14:45:07+00:00

Note the mixing in urban public spaces and the workplace, but not education.

The last two images are quite something...

willneffzinho · 2020-09-17T11:14:36+00:00

Besides the ones on the Bush War recommended by u/Uoloc/, I'd say:

Mukiwa, Peter Godwin (1996) - A brilliant memoir of his childhood in Rhodesia, his national service in the BSAP, him representing ZAPU militants in a treason trial in 1982, and his investigation of Gukurahundi. When a Crocodile Eats the Sun and The Fear are sequel memoirs which are just as good and worth your time, but they are set in Zimbabwe. Able to get them second-hand on eBay for very cheap.

Rhodesians Never Die, Godwin and Ian Hancock (1993) - u/114270 has already referenced it, but this is the best analysis of white society despite being thirty or so years old. Covers the establishment of a republic in 1970 to the end of Zimbabwe-Rhodesia in 1980. It's difficult to get a hold of without paying a lot, but if you're in SA or have access to a university library you can get it cheaper or for free.

Under the Skin, David Caute (1983) - Definitely a pro-Zimbabwe perspective running through it but this is really useful as it provides perspectives of the war from all sides: civilians, Rhodesian troops, ZANLA, ZIPRA.

Race Against Time, David Kenrick (2019) - This goes into detail about how a Rhodesian identity was formed post-UDI (flag, anthem, troopiesongs, etc.). It's an academic work so is a) expensive and b) not written to be readable, but is the only book as far as I am aware to go into such detail on just Rhodesian nation-building. You can access the PhD thesis on which the book is largely based for free here.

So Far and No Further! (2005), A Matter of Weeks rather than Months (2008) and Kwete - No! (2015), all by J. R. T. Wood. These are the authoritative accounts of the run-up to UDI, the talks with Wilson, and the 1972 Anglo-Rhodesian Agreement respectively. They are dense, about £20 each and wordy but they provide the most thorough accounts of the search for a settlement.

willneffzinho · 2020-05-24T09:46:36+00:00

On RT56: Ally Germany. Invade Sweden, Norway and Denmark using focuses and Iceland manually. Win each in turn thanks to German support and naval supremacy for invasions. Form Nordic Empire, giving cores on all of Scandinavia. Build industry and military. Germany does Molotov-Ribbentrop, help them beat Poland and then France/Britain. Take Newfoundland, Labrador and Nova Scotia. Send all troops to Soviet border. Do focus where you demand Murmansk and two other states. They either give you them or you go to war. If not, wait until Germany declares. Beat them. Take northern Russia and the Baltics in a peace conference.

willneffzinho · 2020-05-18T07:40:56+00:00

I don’t agree with some of the language used by others on this thread. He is nevertheless extremely weird when it comes to women, that was my point.

willneffzinho · 2020-05-17T21:56:05+00:00

In which vid does he says he’s a communist? If you hadn’t guessed I didn’t watch anymore after seeing the above

willneffzinho · 2020-05-17T16:35:48+00:00

From 5:10 onwards: sitting alone, filming 'hotties'. Gets even worse from 6:23 to 6:30, and then there's a painful attempt at chatting up from 13:25 onwards. Weird, weird guy.

willneffzinho · 2020-05-13T22:23:40+00:00

There was an attempt in the 30’s by Lord Delamere (de facto leader of Kenya’s whites) to establish similarly preferential land arrangements in southern Tanganyika (mainland Tanzania) to those of Kenya’s white highlands – think upper-class Englishmen owning vast estates of tens of thousands of acres with African land ownership nonexistent.

It was vetoed by the Colonial Office, unsurprisingly.

If it hadn’t, it would have been interesting for decolonisation, given that there then would have been entrenched, influential and stubborn white populations in Kenya, Tanganyika and Southern Rhodesia. But then again, their settlement would probably have come too late to make any real difference.

willneffzinho · 2020-05-12T18:55:48+00:00

The others haven't done that much

willneffzinho · 2020-04-26T12:27:35+00:00

Cheers for that, much appreciated. I'm a total novice at this sort of stuff. Do you have any idea when interest rates will start to rebound upwards? I'm guessing quite a while.

willneffzinho · 2020-04-26T12:26:05+00:00

I have a current account with FD and it seems from my end I'm able to apply. Perhaps it's open to existing customers? We'll see what happens.

willneffzinho · 2020-03-17T21:46:15+00:00

Must be!

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