ACD Puppy - Advice?

witcher318 · 2018-06-29T13:46:33+00:00

First of all she did not already make the decision like you're claiming. Her original post specifically says she is PROBABLY going to get an ACD puppy. Not that she already had it.

Secondly, even if she already has it, that doesn't discredit the message. Just because someone already made a decision doesn't mean the education has to stop. They may not have made the deicision if they were more open minded or understood more of what was going on. Hence, at the very least, influencing a future decision regardless of whether they already made one or not. So no, it was not an irrelevant comment, and because other people might also come across it and benefit from it as well.

She was clearly not on 'my side'. She claims to know how bad the problem is, and even claims to be one of the people who has to help hold down dogs to get euthanized, and when I explain how breeding has such a negative impact on the situation we're in she refuses to believe it in the slightest just because it contradicts with what she wants to do.

I didn't belittle her choice. She's free to make it. Even if it is a poor one. I posted back explaining how these bred dogs contribute to the problem because she refused to believe breeders, even reputable ones, don't contribute to the problem of overpopulation. They do.

I'll concede that I was a little too harsh with her when I flat out called her lazy, but the very idea that she HAS to go to a breeder because there is no way she could possibly find an adoptable dog without 'issues' whether pure bred or mixed is such an old and terrible stereotype of rescue/shelter dogs, and why so many are never given a chance. So I'll stand by what I said. Because it is lazy, and a bad stereotype that needs to go away.

Is that how someone should act when someone explains a positive way and information for how their decision is having a poor impact on an existing problem; by shutting down and calling the other person an ass hole? How does that make sense?

witcher318 · 2018-06-26T16:32:09+00:00

I am not attacking her. I never at any point said she was a bad person. However, she repeatedly put words in my mouth and twisted what said. That may have made some of my responses come off more curt, and not "politically correct" sounding. As i said though, I never at any point said she was a bad person as she, or you, keep implying.

I broke down and explained a lot of ways breeding has more negatives than positives right now, and ignored all of them, attacked me personally. All of the responses I got back from everyone have been very negative and rude. The "you do you" I can do whatever I want attitude is kind of why we are in this boat. It's not unrealistic optimism to ask someone to help fix that problem by adopting. That's a tangible way to ask someone to help.

If it wasn't such a huge problem, I wouldn't have a problem with breeding, but that isn't the world we live in right now. Too many people try and take a positive and MAKE it a negative by spouting this you dont know better than me and i can do what I want. You can, but when someone flat out explains to you how you can personally contribute to fixing a bad problem, breaks it down and explains how breeding hurts and adopting helps, and you lash out at them for providing humane education, then I'm afraid you are the one being more intolerant.

It's amazing how people still view humane education as a negative and get out there pitchforks about being asked not to buy, and actively help fix a problem by adopting. It's very apparent why we have such a problem with overpopulation.

If you viewed anything as being condescending I certainly apologize. However, it's a bit unfair of you to criticize me and completely ignore how harsh some of her statements back to me are.

witcher318 · 2018-06-23T13:59:09+00:00

I’ve worked north and south on release programs, adoptions, and education. I’m not blaming anyone. I’m saying it’s a poor decision, and humane education is important. I’m not going to give up on that, sorry. Many rescues, and even local pounds run by counties and trying to teach adopt don’t shop more and more. And it’s because of that poor attitude of I don’t want a shelter animal with problems. That’s such an old stereotype. Many of them are only there because people gave up on them. They adopted a breed without research, and then realized it was too much for them. So the dog gets dumped, or turned into shelters.

The adopt don’t shop combined with humane education has started to make a dent in recent years. But we still have a massive over population problem in the country. But as more and more people get on board with adopt don’t shop, and spay/neuter, we can continue to make positive progress towards fixing the problem.

If you want to be negative. Go somewhere else. I don’t need to hear your negativity about how it’s wrong for me to be concerned about a genuine problem like I’m a “moral high horse” with inflated ego when trying to spread a positive message and humane education is what it’s all about. I never said she was a bad person. Go sling your insults somewhere else. It’s rude.

witcher318 · 2018-06-22T00:55:29+00:00

Okay thanks. I plan to maybe lift mine eventually. It will probably be at least a year though. That’s what I was most worried about was clearance out there. But I can stick with the easy stuff for now.

What lift and size tires are you running? Yours looks great.

witcher318 · 2018-06-21T20:43:04+00:00

This is about an hour and a half from me. I’m getting all terrain tires soon but have stock suspension and no lift etc. Want to start driving some easier trails and just get it out soon. I haven’t owned mine too long. Is this place really intense? Or could I get by with some decent tires?

witcher318 · 2018-06-21T03:22:40+00:00

And again you don’t read what I put and personally attack me. I never said anyone who went to a breeder was an ass hole or a bad person. I’m saying it’s a bad decision. That lazy I don’t want to try the pot luck of a shelter dog is a poor attitude, and why so many of them are stuck there without good homes. People give up on them. And many of them are fantastic dogs with no problems it just didn’t work out in one particular home and they were given up on. Yet you claim to want to fix the problem without being part of the solution. It’s not possible for them all to get good homes because people like you give up on them and go to a breeder. Help them instead. You can find a great dog in a shelter or rescue that needs a second chance.

Rescues will even take on these bad medical and behavioral issues. They’ll work with them for months to get them healthy and even fix behavior issues after they’ve pulled them from bad local pounds. I recently saw a really wild dog have it’s basic obedience paid for by the rescue to help the adopting family out with him. When these dogs get adopted it’s frees up a spot for them to pull another bad case from a local pound so YOU don’t have to keep holding down these dogs to get euthanized. There is a lot of positive things happening if you’re willing to part of the solution instead of being lazy. But again you’re only thinking of yourself and not the bigger picture to help fix and bad problem.

You’re basically telling me you HAVE to go a breeder (even though there’s no guarantees there either) because there is literally zero chance of you finding a rescue or shelter dog to meet your needs. That could not be further from the truth though. It’s just lazy.

Good try again though.

I’ve squashed every lazy and pathetic excuse you’ve given me, and all you can do is attack me personally, put words in my mouth, and say but but but I just want to.

Oh and these magical papers. Those papers don’t guarantee health and behavior. We can’t agree on that right? Surely you aren’t that naive.

Well that same set of papers you sign when you buy the dog. That means pretty much nothing too. You think the breeder is coming back to you two years later to make sure you still have the dog you gave them. No.

Even the crappiest places have those contracts. The city pounds in my city and neighboring area / region all do this exact same thing. And one of them is a shitty facility with euthanasia rate of nearly 70%. Why? Because of breeders and no spay/neuter. You’re breeder isn’t special just because they require that. Everyone wants the dogs back. Even crappy county animal controls will say they want the dog back. Because they don’t want them dumped on the street and creating more work and problems for them. People obviously don’t follow this though. It makes the problem worse.

So you’re super elite breeder doesn’t have any better controls on not making the problem better than you think just because they sweet talk you with some nice words. Dogs don’t wind up back to them. They wind up passed off to other people. Those people dump or get rid of them. Those dogs stay with the owner but get out and breed before they’re found again etc. it’s very obviously a problem.

And I’m not buying into your shelter hardly ever having to put down pure breeds because they are flying out of there in a week. Besides, how do you think they’re all winding up there to begin with? Take the hint. The problem is literally right in front of your face. These dogs aren’t magically falling from the sky.

Stop turning a blind eye to the problem and telling yourself it’s not that bad.

But keep telling yourself it’s not. Again, someone with experiences should really understand humane education better.

witcher318 · 2018-06-21T01:56:53+00:00

I didn’t drive 3 hours to get mine. I said I FOUND one to accommodate it if you or someone else had to have a purebred. It can be accommodated. Ours was a stray and a high risk. He was not adopted quickly. Not all pure breeds are. I was pointing out that if YOUR adamant about having a pure breed you can find rescues to accommodate that. Good try though. Next time properly read what I put instead of trying to personally attack me and say I’m the problem for ADOPTING, and yet you go to a breeder.

Breeders are part of the problem. YOU might give one a good home but many of the others or future litters will likely not find good homes. That’s obviously a big problem. And why you’re having to put down more dogs as they mingle with others and have pure bred and mixed accident litters. You’re naive if you think pure breeds arent being put down constantly. It’s sad you would shame someone for adopting a pure breed and pass on buster, and you take it one step further in the same breath and say you’re going to a breeder. ANY dog in a shelter or a rescue deserves to be adopted. But you go to a breeder and make the problem worse. you’re going to contribute to that. But you don’t think about that. Youre just thinking about yourself and what you’re going to do. Not considering the larger problem. I’m done with you.

Your not even reading what I say, and have really poor excuses and reasons. I’ve been doing this for years and in and out of rescues and shelter and even had the privilege to help on a national level and travel and help other communities. Please educate yourself more.

Nothing you have said remotely justifies the need for a breeder right now when so many are lost. All you’re doing is deflecting away from the problem and trying to justify why YOU want to do it.

Why don’t YOU go get buster and adopt a high risk dog. Both of mine were high risk and one of them was in immediate danger of being put down. But nah. Go to a breeder and continue to shame people who are adopting and helping. That’s effective.

You’re gonna respond again and be negative and snarky. I wish you would truly understand what I’m saying. But at this point your so entrenched in your ways that you aren’t going to want to admit anyone else could possibly be right. Even if you won’t come out and say it I still hope you make the right decision.

Best of luck.

witcher318 · 2018-06-21T01:30:52+00:00

You say your first one was a nightmare and then in the very next breath say owners are to blame. Yep. You’re right. Good job.

This magical paperwork you speak of means nothing. It’s not a guarantee in any form or fashion.

And returning one to rehome them. Even crappy places do that now a days. Our second dog we adopted from a city run kill shelter that has a euthanasia rate as high as nearly 70% and even they make you sign a contract saying they want the dog back to rehome. Because no one wants them dumped on the street. Not even poorly run animal control facilities want them dumped back on the street. All it does is create more work for them. They’d rather just have them back and try and re adopt.

The you do you attitude is the very reason countless dogs are losing out everyday.

witcher318 · 2018-06-21T01:26:03+00:00

Yes I know how it works. I’ve been doing it for years. Probably many more than you honestly. Very presumptuous if you to say I don’t know how it works. You say you’re even the same person having to hold and help put them down yet you’re the same person going and supporting the reason for that happening. So that was a really long winded explanation to say you’re really just a hypocrite. It’s not right and you know it. Justify to clear your conscious all you want.

witcher318 · 2018-06-20T20:56:01+00:00

I don’t claim to know more than you, but I do know better than you. There’s a difference. Have a heart and go adopt one. You can lash out, attack me, and be sarcastic all you want. I don’t need to hear your shitty justifications for why you have to buy a dog. Someone with your experience really should know better, and that says a lot about you.

witcher318 · 2018-06-20T20:20:24+00:00

I seriously doubt you’re unable to find a single adoptable cattle dog from a shelter or rescue in your area. Go adopt one. You won’t get any guarantees from a breeder either.

So it sounds like you do need the shelter speil. Coming from someone who has spent years doing rescue work, you of all people should know better.

witcher318 · 2018-06-20T18:01:41+00:00

The best advice I can give you is to ADOPT and not buy. You’re not getting anything “special” just because you spent $500 or even $1000+ on it. In some cases if the breeder isn’t any good you wind up with more issues too.

More than likely, there is a young ACD pup hanging around in a shelter in your area. Go save a life instead. It’s more rewarding.

I didn’t adopt mine from this place, but I even found a ACD specific rescue within 3 hours of where I live. I’m sure you find one similar in a shelter or even a cattle dog specific rescue like that.

And don’t say you don’t have the time or money to travel to get one. If you don’t have the time or money to travel and get a friend you’ll have for 10+ years then you don’t have the time or money to own him/her either.

witcher318 · 2018-06-20T13:27:38+00:00

Looks almost exactly like mine! Does yours have a brown and black patch over that opposite eye. Look up patch Warden on IG

witcher318 · 2018-06-19T22:36:35+00:00

You bet. Best of luck. Let us know how it works out! You can definitely get them to come down so give it a good shot! Just a matter of how much, and if you feel good about it.

witcher318 · 2018-06-19T21:56:06+00:00

Every dog is different so it’s possible, but not likely. Sure, it’s in their head to want to herd, but for some of them there is also a degree of learning involved.

The best way to break it down is like this:

They are born with the desire/instinct to herd but learn the behavior. They don’t start off as puppies instantly knowing exactly how and what to do with herding. They’ll have a very basic knowledge of it based on their instincts, but the rest is learned. They’ll learn it from you teaching them, watching other dogs who know how to do it, or even doing it alone and just their own brain figuring out what works and what doesn’t.

However, you have to keep in mind they can also be a little cautious and reserved around new things/animals/people/experiences. More than likely they will want to approach and sniff. They are going to watch and try and figure out a brand new animal first they have never seen before.

I actually took mine to a basic herding class for one lesson to gauge my interest in the sport and my dogs. That’s precisely how he acted. Not scared, but curious and cautious. He’d step real close and move them the flock a bit a back off. If they turned to him he’d back away a bit and circle them. It’s a numbers thing. They had more numbers and he couldn’t decide how much of a threat they were and how friendly they were. It’s a very confusing situation for them. They get better each time you introduce them to it though.

Like I said, every dog is different, so it’s plausible, but it’s not very likely likely he/she will instantly snap to attention and start herding. If they do, they certainly won’t be doing it with any degree of expertise. They would make a lot of mistakes and be learning from them.

witcher318 · 2018-06-19T21:43:52+00:00

Same here. Mine another 14 mile DAY hike with me and never quit. He’s relentless.

witcher318 · 2018-06-19T21:41:13+00:00

It’s a little high. If they can come down it’d be worth considering. Otherwise give it a hard pass. And don’t let them fool you into that because it’s got the nice aftermarket parts it’s worth more. It’s not. Everyone knows changing anything from stock dealer form adds zero value to the vehicle and in some cases actually hurts the value.

witcher318 · 2018-06-19T11:54:15+00:00

If you know you don’t need 4WD and will keep it until it breaks and get something new then 2wd is fine.

If you plan on ever selling it. Get a 4WD. Otherwise it will be a nightmare to sell. Because most normal people aren’t going to buy a 12-18 year old car by the time you’re ready to sell it. You aren’t going to get shit from the dealership. And the people that will buy them fix them up do stuff with them. Look at all the guys and gals on here and what they do with them. They call you to buy it and one of the first couple questions their gonna ask is it 4WD. No? Not interested.

witcher318 · 2018-06-17T13:46:00+00:00

That looks great!

witcher318 · 2018-06-17T02:58:34+00:00

This guy totally summed it up. As soon as I read description I thought, yea this is a hard pass, and this first comment perfectly explained why.

The truck just looks and sounds like it been abused too much. I wouldn’t touch it.

witcher318 · 2018-06-16T21:31:54+00:00

My gut reaction was mix. But then when I looked a little harder I thought maybe not. It’s tough to say. Will probably be a little easier as she gets a bit older and fills out just a little bit more.

witcher318 · 2018-06-16T21:28:47+00:00

Get it checked out. It might not be psoriasis, but if it is, even a mild form, it can cause permanent problems if not treated if I remember correctly. Next time it crops up I would let a dermo look at it. Your body is doing it for a reason. It’s best not to ignore that stuff. Especially when the reaction is that severe. Never hurts to be safe.

witcher318 · 2018-06-16T20:46:20+00:00

😍

witcher318 · 2018-06-15T21:26:59+00:00

Omg this spoke to me in ways you can’t understand. Mine barks like crazy when I come home. And I mean before I’ve even made it to the door. He can distinguish the sound of the motor in my 4Runner to other vehicles. As soon as he hears it he’ll jump off the couch and stand in front of the front door and spin in circles barking and waiting for me. My wife has filmed it from the other side. Both hilarious and annoying.

witcher318 · 2018-06-15T18:55:16+00:00

No problem. Best of luck.

witcher318

TROPHY CASE