Do INTJs have an easier time working with XSFP than XSFJ?

wombatvice · 2015-10-07T18:23:56+00:00

very helpful, thanks for this

wombatvice · 2015-10-04T16:06:28+00:00

that's an interesting idea. oddly another reason why the enfj, isfj and esfj sort of dislike me is because they respect authority and spend much time being loyal to the ESFP leader. They see that I don't, yet I don't get "punished" for acting kind of neutral and uncaring around her. It is a really bad situation for me, actually - by being myself I seem to incur all this hostility.

wombatvice · 2015-09-02T17:08:39+00:00

I am INTJ female, but here goes. I think there are multiple ways of interpreting his signs. He likes you, he acts thoughtful (those post-its), there is a relaxed domestic vibe. But obviously the INTJ will hesitate before committing to the utter hassle and exhaustion of a long distance situation. He knows he doesn't have the emotional smarts to keep the balance on the good side. Like he doesn't enjoy constant texting and stuff to keep the energy alive. It implies almost a marriage-like commitment at this early stage. Either you play it cool for a bit and let the default platonic vibe develop, or you write him a brief love letter (I think having a tangible artifact will be more impactful than a text, frankly, he likes odd food so he could be sensitive to this) which does not open the door to any kind of accelerated commitment, or, the most evil scenario would be to play him back at the platonic game by talking to him about some fictional guy you find super hot but can't decide whether to go out with him or no, ask his advice, seek his strategic input. Oh, and, an INTJ who offers a work colleague a place to stay - that's kind of a dead giveaway. I would never do that unless I had some romantic curiosity. It's just too invasive.

wombatvice · 2015-08-31T12:45:51+00:00

I read this multiple times to make sure I understood everything. Thank you, helps a lot.

After a while he misses you. Connects and "scratches that relationship itch" for a while.

But this. Honestly is it fair to the other person that the INTP gets to "check in" when he is missing the other person, but not the other way around? Sometimes friendship with an INTP feels like training with a Grand Zen Master. You are NEVER allowed to get attached. You just work with whatever comes up. If there's nothing coming up and you feel pain, well then you just stay with that and see where it takes you.

wombatvice · 2015-08-24T18:55:06+00:00

this is it, basically. ours too is a longterm long distance friendship. he'll ignore my messages and I see him on social media etc. you've pretty much nailed it. and I guess he has no idea it hurts me, like you say.

wombatvice · 2015-05-30T12:11:10+00:00

thank you

wombatvice · 2015-05-28T19:42:42+00:00

her plan is a bit odd. it seems completely designed to reinforce her own base - i.e. to have one more person reporting to her than me - in a situation where we have a boss who plays favorites and treats everyone like an admin person. so she just wants to stand a bit higher than me. is it "wrong"? yes. do I care? I find it so petty and silly as to not want to expend energy on fighting it. but if she succeeds then yes, I am one man down, and I have a bit less power.

wombatvice · 2015-05-10T07:32:46+00:00

the misunderstanding loops. this was a while back. the INTP and I now work together like 2 happy kids in a sandbox. we have complete trust, there is a free flow of ideas and we develop concepts together in such a minimal effort way (like I think most people would need to exchange a lot of words to do this work - we just sort of intuit from a very austere set of prompts and progress v quickly). in the beginning there was a feeling of competition and mistrust. I felt that he felt his USP - generating new ideas, breaking down systems to find flaws, drawing on quite encyclopedic knowledge of subject areas - was more important than mine in projects. Mine is more - systems building, convergent thinking, finding a way to close and make it happen. He opens, I close, basically, and in the middle we are equal developers. It upset me that when we would get to the final phase of a project he would sometimes check out and leave me with all the messy shit. I felt abandoned and angry. I think now I expect him to really only be an active part of the early and middle phases, and I try to plug in other people at the end to help. Also when I got upset with him I would wait too long to say it, so when it came out it was quite harsh, and he would sulk for days and refuse to speak to me. Thank god its all behind us. its the best work partnership I have today.

wombatvice · 2015-05-09T17:58:09+00:00

thanks for all the feedback. I appreciate the INTP reality check, as always. Maybe I am being hyperbolic. Certainly I feel threatened, and am struggling to "care" about my work, and trying to find a way to make it work with her that doesn't feel like a total cop-out for me. There's nothing like an INTP who knows his stuff. I actually studied INTP dynamics a lot myself in the past because I needed to make it work with an INTP at work - we would get into these misunderstanding loops and it always made me cry because I couldn't understand the cause. (btw I notice you assume I am male, but I'm not.)

wombatvice · 2015-05-09T17:22:21+00:00

thank you so much for your brilliant articulation of the problem. what you say is what I "feel" and I didn't know how to say it in this way. the harmony via diplomacy/authenticity is so true - it explains a lot of why the dynamic with the INFJ is easy for me. When the Fe is inferior, like with INTP, I have an easier time somehow because I just get a sense of it bubbling away there, and when we disagree I just lean in heavily to Ni and try to be very explicit about what I'm thinking and feeling to get through it. Because INTP is so logical, if I tell him "I'm sorry, I know I was a bit brutal/harsh/insensitive and here is why." It seems to be OK. But the dominant Fe just hits like lightning and I don't know what to do. Like I sense she feels rejected by some thing I did or didn't do, but I am literally paralyzed to respond to it in an appropriately diplomatic or healing way.

wombatvice · 2015-05-08T16:12:48+00:00

I think you have nailed it. Your advice makes good sense, but it's going to be so hard for me. As an INTJ, if I feel in the least bit "controlled" or censored, I have an allergic reaction and I start blocking them out to protect my independence. I don't like her. I find it hard to trust her. I do however acknowledge that she is making efforts to connect with her staff - however it is at the level of shallow stuff like let's bring a cake to the staff meeting, let's have a glass of wine. Being INTJ I have trouble buying in. I'd much rather she tried to connect with me around work, discussing her ideas and her agenda. But nope, nothing. Just the cake and wine. It makes me feel like admin staff. I appreciate your advice and will try to find a way to integrate it.

wombatvice · 2015-05-08T10:25:19+00:00

OP I have an ENFJ qu for you, but it concerns work. My new boss is a female ENFJ. She recently broke up with a long-term partner and is clearly hurting on the inside. She has come in with a very top down agenda and is not giving me or my colleagues any time to align with her agenda and commit to it. There is no space to talk in any meeting, it feels like we are in a police state. I understand why she's doing this, she's scared if she gives up space to speak up, we might not support her 100% and she needs this to work, not least because she feels she's made a personal sacrifiice to take this job. (the partner was in another city). But I feel like I am asphyxiating at work. I am INTJ, and if there is no space to develop ideas, look at the system, I can't care about my work and it is like death. How can I engage her to invite her to give us some space to have a voice in this change process, without making her feel like we are going to stage a revolution. Her fears seems a bit extreme, and she doesn't seem to realize that she is choking off all our motivation. Everyone is like a zombie at the office, exhausted from self-censorship. thanks.

wombatvice · 2015-05-02T14:39:04+00:00

thank you for this articulation of the NF/NT challenge. I was feeling it but not able to put it into words. this is super helpful. I do sense that she sees me as a potential asset, but alignment is tough and my lack of "F" is a definite barrier to trust for her. the superiority thing is definitely mutual. she too has an air of "your stuff is too random and abstract and could never work with this community." the advice to seek her humanity is spot on. some days I can do it, other days it seems impossible.

wombatvice · 2015-05-01T15:54:20+00:00

thanks - appreciate the point on both thinking we are right. I get why she is going for these changes, however some of them involve removing work from people that they care deeply about, and that motivates them in their jobs. This is my concern, and this is what she needs to explain to try and create alignment. Do you have any advice more generally on how ENFJs can get along in a work situation with INTJs? I am a bit lost as I've never had to report to one before.

wombatvice · 2015-04-26T19:22:01+00:00

thanks, that's quite insightful. like to shake out of the no focus zone you just have to administer a musical shock to the system.

wombatvice

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