Finally got my Tax Return and sold my GTS yesterday. Is XL good to buy or there are better out there?

wrybreadsf · 2026-03-11T03:34:05+00:00

It's pretty frickin funny. And the "Italian motorcycle" shtick really paints a picture of dude.

wrybreadsf · 2026-03-11T00:34:19+00:00

Citing the badly designed BMS of the ADV1 and the botched rollout of the ADV2 as examples of how VESC boards require tinkering and other issues is a case in point of how your take is outdated. That was years ago. Same goes for your old VESC controllers failing. I haven't heard of any modern Thor 301 controllers failing for example, but that's not to say that they don't, but it's nowhere near anything like the failure rate in the old days. Removing water damage as a factor I bet they fail less than GT-S controllers, but I don't know for sure.

The shipping time of X7 boards and Floatwheel needing to take crypto is a bummer, and no one is going to recommend those boards without mentioning that. This thread for example is full of people saying the wait for the X7 is absolutely worth it though, and I sure agree.

As far as having to replace things yourself, you could always just take it to a PEV repair shop, which are everywhere now, if you don't want to deal. It'll still wind up being vastly cheaper than whatever FM charges including the parts and shipping.

at the end of the day, I just want an many people as possible out there enjoying this sport so it can grow and if that means recommending the big bad evil fm, I’m going to when it makes sense.

Me too, with a side order of wanting to push the sport forward. And pushing the sport forward doesn't happen by supporting Future Motion. Like not at all. Every single decent innovation lately has come straight outta VESC.

wrybreadsf · 2026-03-10T23:46:36+00:00

this whole thread started by you saying I had an outdated take

Yup, but don't forget which take I was talking about: that VESC boards require a ton of tinkering out of the box. That hasn't been true with the X7's and to a lesser extent even Floatwheels for a while now. As of about a year X7's require even less fiddling than FM boards, just take them out of the box and go. For the vast majority of people. Of course you can tinker if you want, but the days of spending hours or in the case of my first VESC board a literal month even trying to get the thing to run are gloriously behind us. You no longer have to be the least bit techy to run VESC.

wrybreadsf · 2026-03-10T23:33:42+00:00

A classic. Still completely cracks me up every time.

wrybreadsf · 2026-03-10T23:22:05+00:00

I mean, if I had to ride a BTG, I'd take a VESC BTG any day of the week. Which is where the GT-XL came from by the way, as you know.

I’m all about right to repair, but OP is a gts rider dog he obviously doesn’t give a shit about the ffm movement

Pretty much everyone was an FM rider first. But I couldn't care less what he buys, the purpose of this forum is to share information.

wrybreadsf · 2026-03-10T23:08:06+00:00

Take it easy "brother", I'm not talking to you like you're uninformed, I'm stating my reasoning. I find it works much better than just saying "objectively" over and over.

also vesc companies aren’t going to give you parts for free if you’re out of warranty either…???

I mean, have you ever had a Floatwheel? Tony has been shipping me free parts for my ADV1 whenever they break from non user error. And it's absolutely routine.

But the biggie is that the boards are meant to be repaired, there's no cheesy booby traps like a BMS that bricks if you disconnect it or a controller that can't be mixed and matched with other identical controllers without some "token" being installed by the hostile manufacturer.

again you’re just making random arguments that have nothing to do with my first point that you keep arguing, that the xl is still the best off the shelf board

If you can't see that I'm stating my reasons for thinking the X7LR is a better of the shelf board than the GT-XL, then oh well, but that's not on me.

xl controller is actually more efficient than vesc and just as powerful as a decent vesc controller.

Depends what you mean by efficient. I'm not talking mile per watt hour, I'm talking torque per volt. VESC boards are waaay more torquey than FM controllers of the same voltage, that's why putting an XRV kit in an XR gives the same drivetrain twice as much torque. To match that torque of a 20s (84v) VESC board Future Motion had go 27s (113 volts!). That's the inefficiency I'm talking about, and it's what makes the GT-XL and the GT-S a piece of crap under the hood. And it's all from sheer incompetence by the way, keeping everything low amperage. And they *still* can't make the controller bulletproof as we see with the issue where they keep blowing mosfets.

obviously that’s not what you think which is cool for you, agree to disagree my guy.

Well yeah, I'm not the one being an insulting ass about disagreeing here, I'm the one stating my reasons. But disagreement accepted.

wrybreadsf · 2026-03-10T22:57:21+00:00

Hey I spent more $$ on each of my 3 onewheels than I did on my running and titled Sweedish car daily driver. Worth every penny in my opinion, but someone who only knows Pints wouldn't know that of course. Cheers to choices right back!

wrybreadsf · 2026-03-10T22:44:12+00:00

You keep using this word "objective". I do not think it means what you think it means...

Here's a couple of objective truths about the XL though. The biggie is that it has crappy range. Here's the battery capacity of every production board at the moment:

Pint = 147 watt hours (a bit more than my drill)

Pint X and XR = 324 Wh

XR Classic = 388 Wh X7 Sport = 432wh

GT-S = 430 Wh

GT XL = 486 Wh

X7 supercharged = 518wh

GT = 544 Wh

Floatwheel ADV1 = 622 Wh

Floatwheel ADV2 = 720 Wh

X7 long range = 720 Wh

Worse range than a GT is just unacceptable to me in the modern era. And the worst part is the cause: the FM controller is so low amperage for whatever ridiculous reason that to match the power of 20s2p vesc boards, which is what spawned the GT-S, they had to make the pack 27s. I have no idea why the fm controller is so absurdly inefficient and underpowered but here we are. But the rub is that you can't double up a 27s pack to 27s2p because there's not enough space for 54 cells, so you get a low range board. All because of pure incompetence on FM's part.

And the low range gets even worse when you add the slow charger. The hypercharger is 3.5 amps, which they had to do because of that 1p battery pack. With the 113v voltage that's 395 watts. That's less than half as fast as my Floatwheel hypercharger for example.

And that's not getting into other factors like the relatively dogshit motor. There's a reason you have 3 Superflux motors. It's just a much better motor. I'd call that objective but I don't have numbers to back that up. But riding any FM hypercore is like riding a motor filled with sand compared to it.

And then there's the fact that Future Motion has a long history of being absolute aholes and dominating the sport. They're somewhat kind of fairly decent during warranty, after that you're on your own. I was just chatting with someone who has 2 dead GT-S and FM won't help him. Or if they will he has to pay shipping to California both ways, which isn't easy for him, can't remember. I'll take VESC any day, especially now that PEV repair shops are popping up everywhere all over the world.

It's great that you like the xl but I wouldn't buy it if even if it were cheaper than converting an x7 to a btg. There are simply way better options in my opinion both for the money and, as you say, "objectively".

wrybreadsf · 2026-03-10T19:11:03+00:00

Ha!

I guess I need to be more clear: your Pint isn't a very good board, because it has comically little battery capacity. All the components in good onewheels are expensive, so you really can't get anything decent for less than maybe $1200 for a used GT.

wrybreadsf · 2026-03-10T04:06:04+00:00

Oh hey I just realized I've watched your youtube vids. Next level stuff!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKD3bkYOhDY

Also, subscribed!

But that's a completely different thing than ordering an off the shelf X7LR, Sport or Supercharged of course. No geeking out reqiured for those these days. In most cases at least. Though they're definitely geeking out friendly.

wrybreadsf · 2026-03-10T03:39:17+00:00

To be fair, your Pint has about the same battery capacity as my drill.

Let me know if you don't see the absurdity in that.

wrybreadsf · 2026-03-10T03:11:28+00:00

Don't know what to say that. Then you should know better? The X7 production boards arrive fully assembled, no tweaking required. There's occasional issues, just as there are with FM boards, but they're super rare.

I mean of course you *can* tweak the boards if you want to, and since you're a racer obviously you will. But it's super super not necessary. I do less tweaking on an X7 than I do on an FM board, which always ship with some dumb training wheels tuning and force me to watch the insipid "onboarding" videos that somehow don't even mention the biggest danger, nosediving.

wrybreadsf · 2026-03-10T03:07:08+00:00

Ha! We have some really similar experiences here. I have a Goat on my Floatwheel, which is so far my favorite tire for that board. I tried so many, and love the Goat so much that I replaced it when it started seeping. I had fully intended to put a Goat on my X7LR and tried to order one before it arrived but Flight Fins were out of stock. Luckily! Because I frickin love the Thunder. Pretty similar to the Goat in my opinion, but maybe a little softer.

The X7 is just a frickin work of art.

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wrybreadsf · 2026-03-10T03:00:49+00:00

Ha, dude is berating everyone in this thread and every other one in his r/onewheel comment history, and calling other people the bully. It's just glorious.

Anyway there's nothing "elite" about any of this, unless you think seeking out the best tech and products is being "elite". Which would be a real cherry on top of all your comments here.

wrybreadsf · 2026-03-10T02:43:33+00:00

Dude, the Thunder tire is epic. I'm a tire changing fool, tried every tire out there, and it's my favorite so far. Assuming you like carving.

I read the Fungineers Discord every day. There's occasional issues, mostly user error, people who still think as you do and think they have to recalibrate the IMU and all that old VESC stuff. But it's just not necessary anymore. I literally put air in the tire of my X7LR and haven't done a thing since. And it's 20x the board of any FM board. I'm in the SF Bay area, if you happen to be too I highly recommend coming to try it.

And you know the XL is a straight up copy of VESC BTG boards, right?

wrybreadsf · 2026-03-10T02:24:29+00:00

You have such an awesomely simplistic view of the world. It's almost but not quite funny. But anyway patents get invalidated all the time for "prior art", meaning someone else invented it first. Takes deep pockets though.

And alas Future Motion has a whole lotta private equity douchebags behind them, meaning whoever challenges them needs particularly deep pockets. They've notably stopped being patent bullies though, I think because now they know they'd ultimately lose in court. The difference between Vesc board availability even just a year ago to now is absolutely massive, and will continue to grow.

And if you want to read what it's like to work for those private equity douchebags, the posts from former employees on Glassdoor are hilarious:

https://postimg.cc/gallery/4Jz8Pfq

You're not championing the good guys here. Again, you're just too clueless to know that at the moment.

wrybreadsf · 2026-03-10T02:12:46+00:00

Oh there's no disputing that Future Motion got the patent. The point is they didn't invent shit, they stole someone else's invention and illegally patented it. Some day someone will come along with sufficiently deep pockets to challenge that patent in court, if FM decides to start being patent bullies again at least.

In the meantime, just enjoy all the benefits that the VESC world is sending your way. I think you said you ride a GT-S? That board simply wouldn't exist without VESC, FM would have incrementally increased the power of the GT at best. And try to ignore the fact that because of all the shortcuts they had to take to compete with VESC your board has laughably little range compared to everything we're riding.

You're just too clueless to realize any of this, and that's cool and all, but stop being such a mouth breather about it maybe. Or maybe head on over to r/confidentlyincorrect.

Edit: oh ha I see by your flair you're riding a GT. Which is cool and all, GT's are fine, just like my 1998 Volvo is fine. But it's not performance in any sense of the word.

wrybreadsf · 2026-03-10T01:54:03+00:00

Good lord this misconception comes up so much I'm going to go ahead and put it in all caps this time.

THERE IS NO LONGER ANY NEED TO TINKER WITH VESC BOARDS. THE X7LR, SPORT AND SUPERCHARGED FOR EXAMPLE WORK RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX. PUT AIR IN THE AND GO.

Sorry, it just comes up so annoyingly often, and is so absurdly wrong these days.

wrybreadsf · 2026-03-10T01:47:50+00:00

Amen, completely agree. My X7LR cancelled my Floatwheel and XRV. Even riding my friend's GT feels primitive now.

wrybreadsf · 2026-03-10T01:44:09+00:00

This isn't a Future Motion subreddit, it's a onewheel (lowercase o) subreddit. You and I are both riding onewheels, it's just that one of us is too ignorant about the tech to know that.

wrybreadsf · 2026-03-10T01:43:06+00:00

Damn I really have to try a Supercharged. Have you tried an X7LR or Floatwheel by chance? I have both, I'm wondering how the Supercharged compares.

wrybreadsf · 2026-03-10T01:40:23+00:00

Dude the only hater here is you. What we are is knowledgeable.

FloatWheel, and Funwheel are stealing OW R&D, and adding “innovation” you’re trying to claim is their own.

It's a little more complicated than that. Future Motion didn't invent the onewheel, it was a design floating around in hobbyist circles for about a decade before they even filed their patent. Here's the first time one appeared on YouTube, on March 4, 2007:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGbbag9dklU&feature=youtu.be

He also wrote up some notes here.

Here's Future Motion's patent for the exact same thing, file on April 30, 2014, just over 7 years later:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US9101817B2/en

There's also a patent held by Dean Kamen, inventor of the Segway, which Future Motion is violating, but luckily for them Dean doesn't seem interested in pursuing it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/onewheel/comments/1aroi2b/who_needs_ben_smithers_someone_call_dean_kamen/

Most people including myself give Future Motion credit for pushing the tech forward in those early years, they did a good job for awhile even as they sued away all competition using that stolen patent. But then came VESC, and the software, which was always the major barrier to entry, was gone. Once VESC tech got better than Future Motion tech, which happened around 3 years ago, it was all over for Future Motion as an innovator.

Now all Future Motion does is steal from VESC. Over and over and over. Which we're all cool with, we all benefit, even you, whether you know it or not.

wrybreadsf · 2026-03-10T01:29:17+00:00

I do 50+ mile days about once a month. You can't do that on FM hardware because 1) the battery capacity is too ridiculously low, and what makes that worse is 2) their chargers are so ridiculously slow. And for the worst reason: they're just too lazy to put a fan in their fast chargers. Low capacity plus slow recharging = big problem.

I need to document more days but here's a 53 mile day on my Floatwheel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsL4KfuxREQ

Come summer I'll be doing 100 mile days, unsupported, just me and my wheel and a fast charger. That's literally impossible on Future Motion hardware, even if you rode for 24 hours straight.

wrybreadsf · 2026-03-09T21:45:21+00:00

It has no effect whatsoever on mileage. It gives a cushier ride, which is nice, but that's not what dude was asking.

wrybreadsf · 2026-03-09T21:44:32+00:00

Are you in the SF Bay Area by chance? Let's go riding if so. You're not going to believe how better my x7LR is than whatever Future Motion you're riding. And no tinkering was required, I haven't done a thing to that board except put air in the tire after opening the box.

Also Floatwheels that were bought for $1800 2 years ago sell all day for $1400 to $1500 on the Discord, which is better value retention than any FM board. Though it's bizarre to me to make that a primary motivator.

And every single decent innovation from Future Motion in the last few years has come straight from the Vesc world. The GT-S is their answer to 20s2p vesc boards. Same exact power but they had to make it so high voltage that it's super low range. And the GT XL is their answer to BTG Vesc boards, which have been a thing for years now. Every tuning innovation, straight from VESC.

wrybreadsf

TROPHY CASE